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Offline amartinezv  
#1 Posted : 17 March 2019 20:33:53(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,
Hello,

I've been thinking for some time about how to determine how many wagons a märklin locomotive could haul. There have been comments lately about whether the classic marklin locomotives have more power than the current models, and about the weights of the classic locomotives versus the current ones.

I have been reading about the railway, and it seems that the weight of the locomotive is the main factor apart from the power of the locomotive engine, ie the power of the locomotive engine is transmitted to the track by the weight of the locomotive.

In my locomotive collection this weight fluctuates between 114 gr of the Glaskasten 36861 and 646 gr of the Taurus 39355.

numero de unidades.png

Numero de unidades means number of units or number of locomotives
And the horizontal axis represents the weights in grams.

But the weight of the locomotive is divided between the axles it has giving a value of weight per axle, this is the same in the case of drive axles or guide axles, but for traction only axles with traction are important, so, if we suppose a locomotive 1'C1' (or 1-3-1 , 5 axles) weighing 50 Tm, would have 10 Tm/axle, and 30 Tm of drive weight, but due to the coefficient of friction between the wheel and rail this is reduced to 20%, ie 6 Tm. This quantity is called adherent weight.

In future emails in this same thread I will show the individual data in more detail.

Best regards

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

Edited by user 08 November 2019 10:01:55(UTC)  | Reason: update the title

Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline amartinezv  
#2 Posted : 17 March 2019 22:46:14(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,

Hello,

Well, we started with the lightest locomotive I have, the Glaskasten 36861, weighing 114 grams, has 2 axles and only one traction tyre.
The weight per axle is 57 gr, and I have calculated an adherent weight of 56 gr. Then I understand that the locomotive could drag a train that would make a force of 56 gr in the coupling, that is to say that the components of weight and friction forces did not exceed that value of 56 gr. In plain the weight of the train is not important and only the frictional forces count, the locomotive can pull a sufficiently large number of wagons, however in the instruction manual of the locomotive does not recommend more than 2 wagons, especially if there are curves or gradients.

I test my model in an area with curves of R1 and a slope between 3 and 5%. The train is completely inside this zone and I start it,
the result is:
pulling wagons: 5 standard marklin wagons, weight of wagons 356 gr.
pushing wagons: 6 märklin wagons, with a weight of 452 gr.



In a section with radius R2 and a gradient between 3 and 5% the results are:
Pulling wagons, 6 wagons, weight 452 gr.
pushing wagons, 6 wagons, weight 452 gr.



In both cases, with one more wagon, the locomotive skids and cannot climb.

Best regards


Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline amartinezv  
#3 Posted : 19 March 2019 09:19:17(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,

Hello

I will continue to check the behavior of locomotives according to their weight, from lower to higher, then the next is the BR 89 ex T3, reference märklin 37140, this small locomotive weighs 128 gr, has 3 axles, but really only rests on the two exteriors, the central axle is slightly raised and the wheels do not support the rail, the weight per axle is therefore 64 gr. It only has one traction tyre and I calculate an adherent weight of 56 gr.

The test is performed on a section with a slope between 3 and 5% and curves of R1 and R2, pulling and pushing wagons, the results are:
In R1, pulling: 2 cars, train weight 138 gr
In R1, pushing: 2 cars, Train weight 138 gr
In R2, pulling: 2 cars, Train weight 138 gr
In R2, pushing: same result



Best regards

Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline utkan  
#4 Posted : 21 March 2019 11:11:10(UTC)
utkan

Turkey   
Joined: 14/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 19,116
Location: Istanbul,
A very interesting search, Antonio...ThumpUp
Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you...
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Offline amartinezv  
#5 Posted : 22 March 2019 08:38:44(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,

Hello, good morning,

Today we have on the test track the most famous locomotive märklin, the BR 89, 3000. This locomotive weighs 186 gr, has 3 axles, but only rests on the two outer axles, the central one is slightly elevated, then the weight per axle is 94 gr, the rear axle has traction tyres, then the adherent weight is 94+0,25*94 = 118 gr. The locomotive is digitized with a 6080 decoder.

In section R1, the results are:

Pulling: 11 wagons, with a weight of 864 gr
Pushing: 9 wagons, with a weight of 686 gr



Although the speed with which it climbs could be thought that it can pull more cars, is not so, with just one more car, skates on some tracks

In section R2, the results are:
Pulling: 11 wagons, with a weight of 864 gr
Pushing: 9 wagons, with a weight of 686 gr
In other words, there is no difference with R1

Now a small video of the start of the 3000 pulling 23 wagons, some very heavy, on flat. It seems that this small locomotive has no limits, with this length of trains, in my model due to the curves R1, begin to appear problems of derailments in the wagons due to the tension in the curves.



Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline river6109  
#6 Posted : 22 March 2019 10:55:07(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,627
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Antonio, I have been aware of the pulling - pushing characteristics of my locos and I've found the other day my ÖBB Rh 93 steam locos one has only 2 rubber tyres and it didn't manage to go up a double S-curve and an incline but the other with the same weight but 4 rubber tyres had no trouble doing the same job.
with Märklin I'm not sure with the new motors whether they are strong enough to cope with an extra weight from passenger cars but for instance Roco or my 5 pole motors high efficiency motors have no trouble., the motor has the capacity by adding wheels with rubber tyres without being overloaded while the weight stays the same and this was always my theory the motor had extra power to produce than it was needed.
a good example is from this video whereas the 2 steam locos go up an incline with 29 cars

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https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline amartinezv  
#7 Posted : 23 March 2019 07:25:57(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,

Hi John, your model is impressive, and of course you can do more exact tests than I can do. I agree with you, I think marklin engines in general have more power than necessary, at least for the vast majority of installations. But well, I'm trying to find out if you can relate the number of wagons or the weight of the train that a locomotive can carry to the weight, or the adherent weight, or the axle weight, of that locomotive. And also if the performance of today's locomotives differs from other, let's say, more classic locomotives. Many times I think that during the years 1990-2003 märklin manufactured the best locomotives, with a relation of level of detail and excellent running characteristics.

Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline amartinezv  
#8 Posted : 24 March 2019 09:52:24(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,

Hello, good morning,

The next locomotive is the BR 260, märklin 3065, this locomotive weighs 232 gr, is digitized with a Lokpilot and a permanent magnet Hamo, and retains its original 3 pole rotor. It has 3 shafts and only rests on the 2 ends, the central one is slightly elevated. It has two traction tyres. The weight per axle 116 gr, and the adherent weight is 116+0,25*116=145 gr.
The results of the tests are:
In R1 pulling: 9 wagons, with a weight of 686 gr
In R1 pushing: same result



In R2 pulling: 11 wagons, with a weight of 864 gr
In R2 pushing: same result



Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 24 March 2019 15:17:42(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,627
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: amartinezv Go to Quoted Post

Hi John, your model is impressive, and of course you can do more exact tests than I can do. I agree with you, I think marklin engines in general have more power than necessary, at least for the vast majority of installations. But well, I'm trying to find out if you can relate the number of wagons or the weight of the train that a locomotive can carry to the weight, or the adherent weight, or the axle weight, of that locomotive. And also if the performance of today's locomotives differs from other, let's say, more classic locomotives. Many times I think that during the years 1990-2003 märklin manufactured the best locomotives, with a relation of level of detail and excellent running characteristics.

Best regards


I'm a bit of an old admirer of the classic locos Märklin bought out over the years and especially the BR 44, ok it hasn't got any brake shoe, ok its not as detailed as today's models but the word "BR 44" stood for a heavy freight loco and this what it was and it performed the task as a BR 44 but today its replaced by fancy advertisements, glossy photos and description doesn't always belong to the model itself but rather the prototype.
Today's description includes how many sound functions, how many detailed parts are added and you have a partly detailed cab interior which if the tender is close enough you wouldn't see anyhow and you also can see right through the loco.
When the loco is in motion most of the extras aren't visible and so long the front bogie or axle isn't dragging its feed behind by the new designs it most probably is a nice loco to have but not at any given price tag compared with the good old BR 44 from the 60's.
Lately the BR V 60, BR 260 is being produced by almost every and it would be an interesting comparison which of these shunting locos has the best traction force.
It almost sounds like a scam that someone has written to these manufacturers and asked for a re run of these locos .
ESU bought out 1 before but what I have been gathering, the pulling power wasn't the greatest, so they've bought out a new model and promised that the traction force has been improved and they also added a power supply to the loco so it wont get stuck on a turnout but the smaller wheels on this particular loco still falls into hole of the Märklin turnouts its like having hick-ups.
naturally it would make some difference if the model was all metal or the housing came with a plastic housing.

It is good to hear someone like you has taken the time to explain and also demonstrate the different locos and its capability and with smaller or shunting locos it could make some difference what a loco can actually pull or push.
Lately I have seen car advertisements whereas cars drive in circles, up a steep incline to beat a goat, or driving through deep water and the most important part everybody is laughing in the car, so its all fun, like with model trains we should have all the fun in the world but nobody tells us anything particular about the capability of your model, they suggest which carriages you can use but very little about how many a BR 44 can pull up an incline., the new model in question most probably isn't a very good example regarding performance
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Minok  
#10 Posted : 25 March 2019 21:36:15(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,083
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Very cool project. I'm aware that some Märklin models have axels that are not only not really driven (they get pulled along for the ride in steam engines by the interconnected rod works), and they float, that is they provide no downward tractive capability at all as their real downward force is only the weight of the wheels/axel, and independant of the locomotive, whereas the locomotives weight is thus distributed over a smaller than the total number of axels.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline RayF  
#11 Posted : 25 March 2019 23:25:19(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,474
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I'd like to point out that axles that are connected by connecting rods are driven, and not just when there are gear wheels between them.

I often read comments about how the axles are not really driven because they are only connected by rods. This is actually how a real locomotive works! The rods cause the axles to be driven.

In older models the connecting rods were in many cases fake, or didn't connect to all wheels, so they felt the need to put gears in between to actually have them driven. In more recent models the gears are not necessary and they have been removed.

As to the centre axles having smaller wheels in 6-coupled models, the reason for this is to prevent the model 'see-sawing' when going over the crest of a hill. If the axles are sprung this is not necessary, and this is actually the case in some models.

I feel that there is a tendency to criticise newer models unjustly. I call this the "Rose tinted glasses" phenomenon. We all think that things from our youth were better than anything modern. This is quite understandable as we all feel nostalgia for days gone by, but we shouldn't let it cloud our opinions of what are very beautiful and well made models produced today.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline dickinsonj  
#12 Posted : 26 March 2019 00:15:21(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,189
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I'd like to point out that axles that are connected by connecting rods are driven, and not just when there are gear wheels between them.


You are quite correct Ray. ThumpUp

I do not agree with those who feel that rod driven axles are not powering the loco. The one downside that I can see is if the wheels are not tightly fixed to the axles a rod driven drivetrain can get out of phase and it will lock up tighter than a drum. When the gears were first eliminated I was sorry to see them go but now I think that there is less friction without them and hence more available driving power with the rod driven locos. I now have many more rod driven steamers than ones with gear drive and I see no loss of traction at all. It worked for over a 100 years in the real thing after all, so it is not a bug but a feature. Cool

A wheel that is raised to make a loco better able to negotiate curves is not a full drive wheel though, but that is independent of the drive mechanism employed.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline jcrtrains  
#13 Posted : 26 March 2019 01:05:02(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 485
Location: Toronto, Ontario
I have also noticed an interesting dimension which is the warmth of the tire. I have some locomotives that struggle on a certain hill on the first two times around the track. They actually slow in the section as a result of the wheels skidding. By about the third time around the layout, they make it up the hill without a problem. I can only assume that by the time it has gone around three times, the tires are warmer giving better traction.
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Offline Minok  
#14 Posted : 26 March 2019 01:36:11(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,083
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I'd like to point out that axles that are connected by connecting rods are driven, and not just when there are gear wheels between them.


You are quite correct Ray. ThumpUp

I do not agree with those who feel that rod driven axles are not powering the loco. The one downside that I can see is if the wheels are not tightly fixed to the axles a rod driven drivetrain can get out of phase and it will lock up tighter than a drum. When the gears were first eliminated I was sorry to see them go but now I think that there is less friction without them and hence more available driving power with the rod driven locos. I now have many more rod driven steamers than ones with gear drive and I see no loss of traction at all. It worked for over a 100 years in the real thing after all, so it is not a bug but a feature. Cool

A wheel that is raised to make a loco better able to negotiate curves is not a full drive wheel though, but that is independent of the drive mechanism employed.


My point about the rod driven axels isn't about the rod driven axels being driven by rods; I agree that they are driven .

The point I was trying to make is that some of the axels on some locomotives are not fixed, but float up and down, and as such they provide very little to no friction to the track as the weight of the locomotive is not pressed down over those axels. Those free-floating axels are the differentiator (not how they are driven) if you are trying to compute how traction is distributed across the axels/wheels.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline dickinsonj  
#15 Posted : 26 March 2019 02:34:50(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,189
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post

My point about the rod driven axels isn't about the rod driven axels being driven by rods; I agree that they are driven .

The point I was trying to make is that some of the axels on some locomotives are not fixed, but float up and down, and as such they provide very little to no friction to the track as the weight of the locomotive is not pressed down over those axels. Those free-floating axels are the differentiator (not how they are driven) if you are trying to compute how traction is distributed across the axels/wheels.


Very true. What you see is not what you get when it comes to driven axles in steamers. I believe that all driven axles in diesels and electrics are in full contact with the track, but I could be wrong about that.

Interestingly Märklin will list all of the powered axles as driven, even though they may not place enough force on the track to do much good. I have never seen any listing of exactly how many axles are in full track contact and hence are making a contribution to driving traction. IMO these floating axles must make some tractive contribution but obviously not as much as one bearing their share of the weight of the loco. I guess the only way to really know how well a loco pulls is to put it on the track and give it a test run. Cool

I do agree with Ray and that is a point of contention for me too. Many people feel that rod driven axles do not contribute much even when they are fully weight bearing and I don't think that is really true.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#16 Posted : 26 March 2019 02:49:00(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,189
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
I have also noticed an interesting dimension which is the warmth of the tire.


That is an interesting point which I had not considered. It does make perfect sense that the tires would be more grippy after having a bit of time to warm up. That is definitely the case for high performance automobile tires.

I do know that some traction tires get hard and slippery as they age and don't serve their full purpose and that some others get soft and sticky and perhaps contribute more tractive effort. My S 2/6 was very prone to slipping the first year that I had it, especially when starting for the first time on any given day. But I have not seen it slip even once in the last few years, so something (good) has changed with it over time.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline mbarreto  
#17 Posted : 26 March 2019 09:00:16(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 859

Relative to powered axles by the use of rods instead of gears, I agree with Ray that the axles are indeed powered. I have some doubts about the wearing of the rods in case they are really under pressure (I mean when the wheels are on the rails tracting the locomotive). This is a different issue than traction. Some todays materials are more durable than the ones used some decades ago, and I hope these materials are being used.

Märklin could bring some light on these subjects explaining their point of view and giving some numbers for their locomotives.
I also think there should be some standards (maybe they already exist and I don't know) and those should appear in the locomotives specifications. Just as an example I am trying to say is for example a norm where it was specified a locomotive can pull a train of 20 cars with a total of x weight, each with 4 axles in a 20 meter ramp with a grade of 3%. Another norm would specify the same for double that number of cars and double the weight.

Regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline river6109  
#18 Posted : 26 March 2019 09:37:09(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,627
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
one will find there will be very little information about performance or particular specifications as it is so with many goods these days

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
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Offline RayF  
#19 Posted : 26 March 2019 13:43:28(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,474
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post


.....

I believe that all driven axles in diesels and electrics are in full contact with the track, but I could be wrong about that.

....



Hi Jim, I believe that at least some of the diesels and electrics with three axle bogies (Co-Co) have a smaller wheel in the centre of the bogie. This is no doubt for the same reason they do it in steamers.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#20 Posted : 26 March 2019 14:17:08(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,189
Location: United States
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post

Hi Jim, I believe that at least some of the diesels and electrics with three axle bogies (Co-Co) have a smaller wheel in the centre of the bogie. This is no doubt for the same reason they do it in steamers.


Hi Ray,

Yes you are correct, and I realize that I was not clear when I made my statement. I meant that all physically driven wheels in electrics and diesels were in full track contact, not that all of the wheels in each bogie were. It seems common for the middle axle in a three axle bogie to both be unpowered and smaller. That makes sense mechanically in the same way that it does in a steamer. ThumpUp

I trust Märklin to make these decisions and in general I think that they do so very well indeed. I also share your assessment that too many people worry about the quality of today's models, while overlooking the many positives. I have some lovely locos which are more than 30 years old but some which are just as nice or nicer, made in the last few years. We humans are great at finding fault with things but seem to struggle a bit with celebrating the good.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
I have models from Era I to Era VI, but I try to focus on Eras I & III. Whoops, that one got away from me. Let's just say I focus on cool trains, regardless of the particulars :-)
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline amartinezv  
#21 Posted : 27 March 2019 09:25:25(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,

Hello, good morning

First of all, thank you very much for your comments and I'm glad that you find this thread interesting, but later I'll comment some things.

Today, we are going to see the revision of the märklin BR 160, #3457, it has taken me quite some time and many attempts to do the tests because the locomotive has had a little erratic behavior.
On the one hand there have been times when I skated and was unable to pull anything and other times has pulled more cars than I could imagine, but if I repeated the test to film it on video, she was not able to walk. Maybe what has been said about tyre warm-up has something to do with it.
On the other hand, there has been a fleischmann wagon that just went off the track, and I had to remove it. I also had to alter the order of the wagons to avoid derailments.

Well, the BR 160 #3457 has 1'C axles disposition, that is to say a free front bezel, and 3 coupled axles, front bezel has a strap in a way that supports part of the locomotive weight, and of the three coupled axles, the locomotive only rests on the 2 exterior axles leaving the central one in the air, so the locomotive rests on 3 axles (the bezel and 2 coupled) but only uses 2 as driving axles. It is equipped with 2 traction tyresThe locomotive weighs 226 grams, the weight/axle is 75 gr, and the adherent weight is 75+0,25*75 = 91 grams.
The locomotive is digitized with a LokPilot v4 decoder and an ESU magnet, but retains the original 3-pole rotor.

The results of the tests are:
R1 Pulling: 20 wagons, weight of the pulled train 1444 grams
R1 Pushing: 12 wagons, weight of the pushed train 1040 grams



R2 Pulling: 21 wagons, weight of the pulled train 1500 gr, train length 303 cm.
R2 pushing: 12 wagons, weight of the pushed train 1040 gr.



Some considerations: In general and at full load the locomotive is able to start and start at very low speed, but, I think that due to imperfections in my layout, sometimes the locomotive stops or skids in some areas of the track, this makes me have to increase the speed by putting the speed control to the maximum, to overcome the entire route, this becomes more evident on the curves R2 and curves in S.

In addition, the maximum speed of the locomotive is set to 80 km/h on a scale, this is done with the help of the Train Controller.

Best regards

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline river6109  
#22 Posted : 27 March 2019 12:05:10(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,627
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I'm surprised the 3457 was able to pull that many carriages., did I notice the front axle didn't move at all ? and could this have been the reason for not getting enough contact on the track.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline amartinezv  
#23 Posted : 27 March 2019 18:30:54(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I'm surprised the 3457 was able to pull that many carriages., did I notice the front axle didn't move at all ? and could this have been the reason for not getting enough contact on the track.

John


Hello, John

I was also surprised that this locomotive 3457 could pull so many cars, in fact dragged 26, but when I made the video the train was not complete, so I tried again and it was not possible, the locomotive refused to drag so many cars, and in the end what I could prove was what is in the video.

I've been watching the video again and the front axle wheels turn perfectly, but I've seen that at some point there's this optical effect that makes it look like the wheels turn upside down. I also cleaned all the wheels and tracks during the tests.
Ah! yes I have a BR 44, the 3108, it's very, very heavy, we'll see what it can do

Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline amartinezv  
#24 Posted : 28 March 2019 08:29:32(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,

Hello everyone, good morning,

The next locomotive with a little more weight on the BR 64, Märklin 39645
Weight: 242 gr
axle arrangement: 1' C 1'
drive axles: 3
weight-bearing axles: 5
axles with grip rings: 1
weight/axle: 48 gr
Adhesive weight: 73 gr (48+2*0.25*48)
Motor type C-sinus soft-drive

The test results are:
R1 Pulling: 15 cars; weight train 1084 gr
R1 pushing: same as above



R2 Pulling: 10 cars, weight train 792 gr
R2 pushing: 16 cars, weight train 1138 gr



When I tried to climb over the R2 area there were sections where the locomotive skidded, probably imperfections of my layout, but that's what there is. In any case this locomotive, in my opinion, has plenty of power for any layout.

Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline amartinezv  
#25 Posted : 29 March 2019 16:42:26(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,

Hello everyone, good afternoon,

The next will be the BR 74, Märklin 3095
Weight: 250 gr
axle arrangement: 1' C
drive axles: 2
weight-bearing axles: 3
axles with traction tyres: 1
weight/axle: 83 gr
Adhesive weight: 104 gr (83+0.25*83)
Motor type SFCM
digitalized with: 6080

The test results are:
R1 pulling: 17 cars, train weight 1464 gr



R1 pushing: 13 cars, train weight 1006 gr



R2 Pulling: 18 cars, train weight 1542 gr



R2 Pushing: 13 cars, train weight 1006 gr



This locomotive also demonstrates the impressive traction force it has. Being digitized with 6080 decoder the speed regulation is not very accurate, and although I tried to keep the locomotive in average speed values, sometimes when climbing the slopes I had to put the control almost to the maximum, I have to avoid this in the future as it is very easy to derail the wagons. On the other hand, to climb as the train reaches the top the locomotive is accelerated, and making the video and keeping the locomotive under control is complicated, although in some of the shots has helped me Train controller.
Best regards

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#26 Posted : 29 March 2019 17:50:05(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,138
I hope you will deduce the Martinez constant, which is the effective tractive force of a single axle per gram of axle weight.

I think the data you are collecting will actually produce such a factor. It may be more than a constant - perhaps two - being x intercept and slope values.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline amartinezv  
#27 Posted : 29 March 2019 21:08:54(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
I hope you will deduce the Martinez constant, which is the effective tractive force of a single axle per gram of axle weight.

I think the data you are collecting will actually produce such a factor. It may be more than a constant - perhaps two - being x intercept and slope values.


Hello Dale, as you can imagine I'm keeping all this data in an excel sheet, and I hope I can deduce that constant "martinez" that you comment, or at least that there is a certain trend, but I think I need more data, maybe when they start to appear locomotives with motorized bogies can be deduced better.

best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
Offline GaryTrooper  
#28 Posted : 30 March 2019 01:40:39(UTC)
GaryTrooper

United States   
Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 179
Location: Hailey, Idaho
Can you connect the locomotive coupler to a tension gauge, turn up the voltage to various magnitudes, and measure the pulling force vs applied voltage?
G - LGB
O - Lionel and MTH
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato
Offline amartinezv  
#29 Posted : 30 March 2019 10:32:15(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,
Originally Posted by: GaryTrooper Go to Quoted Post
Can you connect the locomotive coupler to a tension gauge, turn up the voltage to various magnitudes, and measure the pulling force vs applied voltage?


Hello

Yes, it's a good idea, I had already thought about that, but I don't have a tension gauge, and also my layout is digital so talking about voltages doesn't make sense, you can talk about speed steps, which I'm already taking into account. I had also thought that the locomotive and through a pulley pull a hanging weight, but this also has several drawbacks for me, despite the size of my model, I do not have more room to do other things, so I decided to do the tests as I'm doing.

Best regards

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline GaryTrooper  
#30 Posted : 30 March 2019 20:41:56(UTC)
GaryTrooper

United States   
Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 179
Location: Hailey, Idaho
G - LGB
O - Lionel and MTH
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato
Offline DaleSchultz  
#31 Posted : 30 March 2019 23:16:22(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,138
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline amartinezv  
#32 Posted : 02 April 2019 10:39:30(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,

Hello everyone, good morning,

The next locomotive to study is going to be the BR 80, märklin 33043 in photographic livery, this locomotive I hold in high esteem, carries a delta decoder, but nevertheless has a very smooth operation the speed regulation is very good, and in the marklin documentation specifies that the locomotive has some gears with a high gear ratio. In my IntelliBox the speed indication is shown in speed steps, for the motorola format this 14 speed steps, all tests are in speed step 4, sometimes it has reached 5 or 6, ie a little below 50% of maximum speed.
The limit for the figures obtained has been more than the power of the locomotive the ability of the wagons to stay on the track without derailing, I had to play with the position of the wagons in the train, to avoid derailment, the truth is that this locomotive surprised me a lot, is a small great locomotive.
Let's see it!

Weight: 266 gr
axle arrangement: C
drive axles: 3
weight-bearing axles: 3
axles with traction tyres: 1
weight/axle: 89 gr
Adhesive weight: 133 gr (89+0.25*2*89)
Motor type DCM
digitalized with: Comes with delta decoder

Flat start with many wagons

[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]


The test results are:
R1 pulling: 26 cars, train weight 2154 gr

[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R1 pushing: 16 cars, train weight 1182 gr

[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R2 Pulling: 26 cars, train weight 2154 gr

[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R2 Pushing: 21 cars, train weight 1500 gr

I was amazed, and as I said the biggest problem was that the wagons derailed due to the lateral tension caused by the curves and the slope.
To be continued...
Cordial greetings
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline RayF  
#33 Posted : 02 April 2019 17:11:39(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,474
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Interesting results, Antonio! ThumpUp

I have one of these little Br80 and your results do not surprise me. Mine is a great puller for its size!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline DaleSchultz  
#34 Posted : 02 April 2019 17:36:26(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,138
remember that newer Motorola decoders actually have 27 effective steps, because even though we can only set 14 discreet steps, the speed obtained from each step is influenced by the previous step

i.e. step 4 after 3 is not the same as step 4 after 5

so when doing your tests at a specific step, remember to always get to the step from the same previous step.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline waltklatt  
#35 Posted : 02 April 2019 20:23:47(UTC)
waltklatt

United States   
Joined: 17/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Most interesting Antonio.
I like your experiments on the pulling power.
Wonder if it makes a difference with pulling the double axle freight cars vs the longer 4 axle passenger cars of the Marklin #4000 series metal ones.
The best locomotive I've had with the highest pulling power was the #3022 BRE194 and #3032 BR81, pulling nearly 20 all metal #4000 series cars.
That was the maximum I could put on the layout, with the end of the last car just in front of the locomotive.
Walter
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Offline GaryTrooper  
#36 Posted : 03 April 2019 02:42:53(UTC)
GaryTrooper

United States   
Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 179
Location: Hailey, Idaho
Originally Posted by: waltklatt Go to Quoted Post
Most interesting Antonio.
I like your experiments on the pulling power.
Wonder if it makes a difference with pulling the double axle freight cars vs the longer 4 axle passenger cars of the Marklin #4000 series metal ones.
The best locomotive I've had with the highest pulling power was the #3022 BRE194 and #3032 BR81, pulling nearly 20 all metal #4000 series cars.
That was the maximum I could put on the layout, with the end of the last car just in front of the locomotive.
Walter



3022! Powerful. Awesome! Mine can pull many cars. ThumpUp ThumpUp



Actually mine is a 3322.
G - LGB
O - Lionel and MTH
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato
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Offline amartinezv  
#37 Posted : 03 April 2019 07:04:29(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
remember that newer Motorola decoders actually have 27 effective steps, because even though we can only set 14 discreet steps, the speed obtained from each step is influenced by the previous step

i.e. step 4 after 3 is not the same as step 4 after 5

so when doing your tests at a specific step, remember to always get to the step from the same previous step.


Hello, good morning

Thank you for reminding me of this fact. Let's say that when you increase your speed you go through steps 1, 3, 5, 7, 9...27.
and when you slow down 26, 24, 22, 20 ....4, 2, 0
But in the IB display you can only see the 14 steps of the MM, and in any case I didn't reach 50% of the power or speed of the locomotive.

cordial greetings
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
Offline amartinezv  
#38 Posted : 03 April 2019 07:12:30(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,
Originally Posted by: waltklatt Go to Quoted Post
Most interesting Antonio.
I like your experiments on the pulling power.
Wonder if it makes a difference with pulling the double axle freight cars vs the longer 4 axle passenger cars of the Marklin #4000 series metal ones.
The best locomotive I've had with the highest pulling power was the #3022 BRE194 and #3032 BR81, pulling nearly 20 all metal #4000 series cars.
That was the maximum I could put on the layout, with the end of the last car just in front of the locomotive.
Walter


Hello, good morning

Yes, I had already thought about this, the wagons that I am using are varied, there are several of the series 46xx and also of the 4415, as I go testing more powerful locomotives I will have to put fewer wagons but heavier, at least I imagine that.
And that's why I give as data the number of wagons and the weight of the dragged train.
Most of my wagons are ballasted with some extra weight to make them more stable.

Best regards

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#39 Posted : 03 April 2019 16:51:39(UTC)
DaleSchultz


Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,138
Originally Posted by: amartinezv Go to Quoted Post

But in the IB display you can only see the 14 steps of the MM


correct, so you have to just remember that if you use a certain speed step for consistency, to always get to that step from the same side. (Probably from below.)

(as an aside... in my software I use the 27 steps and send out two speed commands for each one, but eventually I want to replace my decoders with 126 step decoders such as from ESU, at which point I won't need to mess about with the intermediate steps anymore)



Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline amartinezv  
#40 Posted : 05 April 2019 10:24:18(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,

Hello everyone, good morning,

We continue with the tests of locomotives, today is a BR 24, with the reference of märklin 36241, belongs to the so-called cheap series or initiation of our brand. is a very nice locomotive with many details and a very quiet and smooth operation.
Its features are:

Weight: 292 gr
axle arrangement: 1’ C
drive axles: 2
weight-bearing axles: 3
axles with traction tyres: 1
weight/axle: 97 gr
Adhesive weight: 122 gr (97+0.25*97)
Motor type: DC can motor

First a flat start pulling about 16 wagons


R1 pushing: 8 cars, train weight 644 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R2 Pulling: 5 cars, train weight 428 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R2 Pushing: 5 cars, train weight 428 gr

The results are absolutely amazing, this is the proof of what has been discussed in this forum several times about the power of the new productions of marklin. The difference between this locomotive and any classic model of our brand is abysmal. But is this bad? I think not, in my opinion the BR 24, the prairie horse, should have been designed to tow light trains with a certain good speed, and it seems that this model of marklin complies with it, I do not think it was used to tow heavy trains, but of course the comparison with other locomotives is inevitable.

Best regards

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline Goofy  
#41 Posted : 05 April 2019 15:36:16(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,072
I see in the video you have Swiss Crocodile switch loco.
Did you tested pulling tractive power too?
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline amartinezv  
#42 Posted : 05 April 2019 20:32:29(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I see in the video you have Swiss Crocodile switch loco.
Did you tested pulling tractive power too?


Hello

Yeah, I got the switching crocodile.
I haven't done her traction power test yet, I'm doing them by weight, from lowest to highest, but I'll do it when it's her turn.

Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline amartinezv  
#43 Posted : 06 April 2019 08:24:00(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,

3096
Hello everyone, good morning,

Today another classic märklin locomotive, the BR 86, with reference 3096. Locomotive equipped with Telex couplings. The engine only drives the rear axle, and through the connecting rods the movement is transmitted to the other 3 axles. The locomotive is digitalized with a LokPilot decoder and the corresponding permanent magnet stator. It retains the original 3-pole rotor.

Its features are:

Weight: 300 gr
axle arrangement: 1’ D 1’
drive axles: 2
weight-bearing axles: 4
axles with traction tyres: 1
weight/axle: 75 gr
Adhesive weight: 94 gr (75+0.25*75)
Motor type: LFCM
Digitalized with: LokPilot decoder


The test results are:

R1 pulling: 13 cars, train weight: 984 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R1 pushing: 15 cars, train weight: 1152 gr

R2 Pulling: 14 cars, train weight: 1082 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R2 Pushing: 15 cars, train weight: 1152 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

I believe that the results are within the normality, this locomotive does not have an excess of power, but the results are within what one can expect. On the other hand this locomotive has quite a tendency to stop due to failures in the pick up shoe and the ground, it has to be very clean to work well.

Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline utkan  
#44 Posted : 06 April 2019 11:57:53(UTC)
utkan

Turkey   
Joined: 14/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 19,116
Location: Istanbul,
ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp
Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you...
Offline amartinezv  
#45 Posted : 09 April 2019 09:01:49(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,

Hello everyone, good morning,
Today we are going to see the behavior of the BR 114, Märklin 3033.10, according to märklin documentation this locomotive is made in collaboration with Trix. The frame is made of cast iron and the body is made of plastic. At first it had a tendency to skate, after cleaning the wheels with traction tyres with isopropyl alcohol improved the grip.

Its features are:

Weight: 324 gr
axle arrangement: B’ B’
drive axles: 2
weight-bearing axles: 4
axles with traction tyres: 2
weight/axle: 81 gr
Adhesive weight: 162 gr
Motor type: DCM
Digitalized with: LokPilot decoder v4



The test results are:

R1 pulling: 12 cars, train weight: 954 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R1 pushing: 12 cars, train weight: 1034 gr. The wagons are different from those used in the previous test.
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R2 Pulling: 12 cars, train weight: 954 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R2 Pushing: 15 cars, train weight: 1286 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

I was hoping for more spectacular results, but the locomotive was losing traction right away. On the other hand, when the number of wagons increased, derailment problems began to appear.
Some additional data:
average number of cars : 12,5
average train weight: 1057 gr
train weight / locomotive weight ratio: 3,6
ratio weight train / weight / axle: 14
train weight/adhesive weight ratio: 6,5

In this graph we can see the evolution of the relations between dragged weight and weight of the locomotive or adherent weight, for the locomotives tested until now.
Apparently no relationship or trend is observed.

grafico locos.jpg

Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline amartinezv  
#46 Posted : 13 April 2019 17:38:25(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,

Hello everyone, good morning,

Today another classic locomotive of märklin, the reproduction of the BR 212, with reference 3072. It's a locomotive that I've always liked very much, the cast iron frame gives it enough weight and has enough power. The LFCM engine has a certain inertia, and is regulated quite well even with the decoder (6080) with which I digitalised it. The tests are done without exceeding 50% of the power.

Its features are:
Weight: 325 gr
axle arrangement: B’ B’
drive axles: 2
weight-bearing axles: 4
axles with traction tyres: 2
weight/axle: 81 gr
Adhesive weight: 162 gr (2*81)
Motor type: LFCM
Digitalized with: 6080

The first problem that I find, you can see in the following video, the locomotive with enough power slides in that exact point of the road, and is not the first one that does it, however although I observe that track I can not see anything that makes it different from the others, the slope, the union with the adjacent road, everything seems to be fine and yet the locomotive slides.
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

The test results are:
R1 pulling: 13 cars, train weight: 1234 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R1 pushing: 13 cars, train weight: 1234 gr

R2 Pulling: 14 cars, train weight: 1352 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R2 Pushing: 13 cars, train weight: 1234 gr

I am encountering some problems, in the hidden areas of my layout and using M track, to detect the trains, I use the trick as described on my website.
http://www.raildigital.e...os/Trucos2.htm#deteccion
In normal train operation locomotives pass these sensors perfectly, but during these tests many locomotives skid as they pass these sensors.
And the other problem I've come across is that the wagons derail above all is the curves of R1, in some cases I have increased the ballast of the wagons, and I have discarded for the tests some wagons, hence also the differences in the weight of the trains.

And now some graphics, the horizontal axis is the weight of the locomotives tested so far
grafico multiple.jpg

Best regards

Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline amartinezv  
#47 Posted : 17 April 2019 10:14:50(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,
37095
Hello everyone, good morning,

Today, a locomotive that I always liked very much, the BR 85, märklin 37095, is a compact locomotive that communicates the feeling of power. The chassis is made of cast iron and also the boiler and the cabin or part of it. It is equipped with the famous 5-axle articulated chassis that gives it a lot of maneuverability in curves. However I have noticed a problem, in the changes of slope, although in my model they are soft, the central axle that has traction tyres sometimes loses contact with the rail, and with a heavy train that is noticeable. The motor is a DCM with 5 poles and the decoder is a 6090. The tests are done without exceeding 50% of the power.

Its features are:
Weight: 346 gr
axle arrangement: 1’E 1’
drive axles: 3
weight-bearing axles: 5
axles with traction tyres: 2
weight/axle: 69 gr
Adhesive weight: 156 gr (2*81)
Motor type: DCM 5 poles + 6090

The test results are:

R1 pulling: 16 cars, train weight: 1524 gr


R2 Pulling: 14 cars, train weight: 1352 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R2 Pushing: 21 cars, train weight: 1912 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]



And now some graphics, the horizontal axis is the weight of the locomotives tested so far

average train weight.jpg

grafico multiple.jpg

Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline amartinezv  
#48 Posted : 17 April 2019 18:19:08(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,
Hello,

In the previous post there should be 4 videos, but only 3 appear and one of them does not match the description.
I try again:

R1 pulling: 16 cars, train weight: 1524 gr


R1 pushing: 15 cars, train weight: 1488 gr
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
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Offline amartinezv  
#49 Posted : 22 April 2019 10:26:42(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,

Hello everyone, good morning,

Today we are going to see the BR 78, model märklin 3106, as curiosity this was the first locomotive that I bought in Germany, in my first trip to this country, after this, fortunately, many more came. This locomotive with axle succession 2' C 2' has a quite long rigid chassis, and I think that this makes that at some point the locomotive hangs on the track and skates. It always seemed to me that this locomotive had less dragging capacity than one might suppose.

On the other hand, to calculate the weight per axle, and the adherent weight I have assumed, in principle, that the weight distributed between the front and rear bogies was as if they were only 1 axle.

Its features are:
Weight: 360 gr
axle arrangement: 2’C 2’
drive axles: 2
weight-bearing axles: 4
axles with traction tyres: 1
weight/axle: 90 gr
Adhesive weight: 113 gr (90+0,25*90)
Motor type: DCM 5 poles + LokPilot DCC

The test results are:
R1 pulling: 10 cars, train weight: 962 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R1 pushing: 16 cars, train weight: 1524 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R2 Pulling: 10 cars, train weight: 1962 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R2 Pushing: 16 cars, train weight: 1524 gr

All tests have been done without passing speed step 5. The decoder is set to DCC 28.

And now some graphics, the horizontal axis is the weight of the locomotives tested so far



average train weight.jpg

grafico multiple.jpg

Now another graph but assuming that the weight is distributed between the 4 axles of the two bogies and the two drive axles of the ends.

grafico multiple 2.jpg

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator


Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by amartinezv
Offline amartinezv  
#50 Posted : 26 April 2019 14:04:38(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 256
Location: Madrid,

Hello everyone

It continues increasing the weight of the locomotives, with 368 gr we have the märklin BR 111, ref 3155, an electric locomotive with bogies of two axles, casting frame and plastic casing. I got a big surprise because it has towed very long and heavy trains, pulled 27 wagons with a weight of 2.8 kg and a train length of 4.56 meters.
With this length of 4.56m, the train occupies the entire slope, i.e. when the locomotive reaches the top, the last wagon has not yet started to climb.
The biggest difficulty has been that the wagons derailed due to the lateral tension caused by the weight of the train in the curves, I had to make many tests changing the order and position of the wagons. I also had to change some traction tyre in the locomotive.
This Lok has the original DCM motor with the 3-pole rotor and a LokPilot v4 decoder with the permanent magnet stator, I have it configured in DCC 28, and the tests are done in speed steps 3, some 4 and very rarely in 5.

Its features are:
Weight: 368 gr
axle arrangement: B’ B’
drive axles: 2
weight-bearing axles: 4
axles with traction tyres: 2
weight/axle: 92 gr
Adhesive weight: 184 gr (2*92)
Motor type: DCM 3 poles + LokPilot v4

The test results are:
R1 pulling: 25 cars, train weight: 2480 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R1 pushing: 24 cars, train weight: 2308 gr

R2 Pulling: 27 cars, train weight: 2832 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

R2 Pushing: 24 cars, train weight: 2308 gr
[YOUTUBE]
[/YOUTUBE]

And now some graphics, the horizontal axis is the catalog number of the locomotives, with 2 axles driven, tested so far

locos 2 ejes.jpg

Best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by amartinezv
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