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Offline PMPeter  
#1 Posted : 13 March 2019 15:31:40(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,060
Location: Port Moody, BC
With the euphoria surrounding the receipt of a new locomotive there always seems to be a down side that leaves you disappointed. I received this Fleischmann AC version of the E152 yesterday and it runs very nicely, especially at slow speed. The sound is great and I have not yet tested all of the 32 functions available on DCC.

However, the 2 axle front and rear boggies have DC wheelsets with very flat, slightly rounded flanges that derail each and every time on some turnouts that are close to a curve and any 3 way Y turnout not set to straight. It is not a spacing issue since I have confirmed the Marklin spacing is correct and since they are split axles going into an insulated bushing on the shaft they are pushed together as far as possible. In my opinion it is the lack of flange issue as per other DC wheelsets.

My question is, does anyone know of a source for spoked AC front boggie wheelsets that can be bought individually? I can find them on eBay as part of complete boggie assemblies usually only having a single axle, so I don't really want to buy 4 boggies to get the 4 wheelsets that I need. Alternatively I guess I could buy 4 standard needle point spoked wheels, paint the spokes red, and grind off the needle points. Suggestions?

Thanks
Peter
Offline applor  
#2 Posted : 14 March 2019 06:34:51(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,471
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
I can't help you with replacement wheels but I wanted to share with you that I had this problem just the other day with a Fleischmann BR86 I converted to AC - the front bogie would derail on points set thrown.

Looking at the front bogie, it had a metal piece that touched the axle to provide earth to the front bogie which bent down from the chassis.

I was able to simply bend the metal further down to provide more down force on the front bogie which resolved the derailments without needing to change wheelsets.
modelling 1954 Germany (era IIIa)
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Offline PMPeter  
#3 Posted : 14 March 2019 14:20:30(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,060
Location: Port Moody, BC
Yes I thought of that and decided to add weight near the front axle by installing the magnet for reed switch activation on the boggie. Made no difference on the thrown turnouts, but gives me nice early sensor activation for my Rocrail control. BigGrin

For now I replaced the front boggie leading wheelset with a standard Roco 40195 with needle point axles and the loco functions perfectly through all turnouts. So perhaps I can get away with only replacing 2 wheelsets (leading in each direction) if I can only find some.

Peter
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Offline Rinus  
#4 Posted : 19 November 2019 10:55:19(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Hi Peter,

I experienced the same problem with this otherwise beautifull locomotive.

Problem should be solved by widening the steps L and r of the bogie.

The stummi forum also mentions decreasing the axle width to 13.8 mm. https://www.stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=163037

I have the same problem, but have not tested this solution.

rinus
Offline PMPeter  
#5 Posted : 19 November 2019 15:26:42(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,060
Location: Port Moody, BC
I had done both of these things and it made no difference. I still have the Roco needlepoint wheels as the lead at both ends and it works just fine, but looks bad.
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Offline Rinus  
#6 Posted : 21 November 2019 12:38:04(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
How did you decrease the axle widths? I’m about to give it a try myself.
Offline Rinus  
#7 Posted : 21 November 2019 12:47:24(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Also I just sent an email to MSL where I bought mine. Perhaps they can help.

Rinus
Offline hxmiesa  
#8 Posted : 21 November 2019 13:00:56(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,874
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Rinus Go to Quoted Post
How did you decrease the axle widths? I’m about to give it a try myself.

Some of the members here with a professional attitude towards the hobby, will advise you to buy expensive tools from f.x. "Foremann" (sp?), but I just use two pieces of wood with holes in them, place the axle between the wood, and tap away lightly with a hammer on one end.
I think 13,9mm is better than 13,8. (also according to jvuye)

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline PMPeter  
#9 Posted : 21 November 2019 16:01:13(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,060
Location: Port Moody, BC
I use the Fohrmann "Radsatz Richtgerät". Fohrmann link
Offline Rinus  
#10 Posted : 23 November 2019 10:42:42(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
While waiting for the reply from MSL, I was wondering: would the wheel sets from the PIKO E52 be a solution?

They are not that good looking, but as it would fit the purpose why not?
Offline PMPeter  
#11 Posted : 23 November 2019 16:04:17(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,060
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: Rinus Go to Quoted Post
While waiting for the reply from MSL, I was wondering: would the wheel sets from the PIKO E52 be a solution?

They are not that good looking, but as it would fit the purpose why not?


Based on the Piko spare parts list those wheels are the same for AC and DC. Therefore, I have to assume they are DC type with the same low flanges as the Fleischmann ones. The key problem I have found is the wheel diameter. The Fleischmann ones that come with the loco are 9.8 mm dia. with low flanges. The Roco needlepoint ones that work nicely with the large flange are 9 mm dia. The closest Marklin spoked ones I can find are 10.4 mm dia. and they are too large and will not rotate.

Peter
Offline Rinus  
#12 Posted : 26 November 2019 10:26:03(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Got a reply from MSL yesterday. They responded quickly ThumpUp

They actually refered to the operations manual.
Link to Manual

On figures 7 and 8 it is shown that by altering the position of a stepladder, the loco should be able to negotiate curves smaller than R3.

I tried and even when completely removing the stepladders, the front bogie immediately derailed when going in the narrow curve of a 2269 K-track switch.

My opinion is that the flanges of the wheels are to small to handle the frog of the switch and there is too little pressure on the bogie.

Keep you posted on further replies from MSL.

Rinus

Offline PMPeter  
#13 Posted : 26 November 2019 15:46:16(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,060
Location: Port Moody, BC
Yes I agree. That is the conclusion I came to in my very first post of this thread. The very low flanges are the problem. The next problem is I cannot find any suitable replacement AC wheels.
Offline Rinus  
#14 Posted : 30 November 2019 21:21:41(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Hi,

Replacing the front wheels with Märklin replacements 206735 or 201663 appears not to be an option. I checked the availability at my local dealer and it seems they are no longer available. Confused

However I did make some progress with MSL. After exchanging some emails they offered me to return the item to them, so they can send it to Fleischmann for repairs.ThumpUp

I’ll post the package next week and keep you informed.

Rinus
Offline Rinus  
#15 Posted : 04 February 2020 14:06:09(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Today my E52 returned from Fleischmann.

Front bogies were replaced and some tests were done so, as was written in a letter. With confidence I went for a drive ...

IMG_6644.MOV (5,775kb) downloaded 19 time(s).

IMG_6643.MOV (6,967kb) downloaded 11 time(s).

Rinus

Edited by user 04 February 2020 18:48:31(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline PMPeter  
#16 Posted : 04 February 2020 15:59:02(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,060
Location: Port Moody, BC
So absolutely no change?

They still have the same shallow wheel flanges which derail every time on my layout.
Offline Rinus  
#17 Posted : 04 February 2020 19:01:14(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Well no visible changes. Front bogies look the same and the wheels too.

I contacted MSL directly and shared a link to this topic with the video. They will think about a solution and contact Fleischmann.

Does not make sense: why produce a beautiful locomotive like the E52, offer it as AC (Which I like) and then don’t change the front bogies so it derails at every R3 switch Confused Confused .

I would love to have a look at the test procedures.

There must be a wheel set in the Roco/Fleischmann inventory that does the job?

Rinus
Offline PMPeter  
#18 Posted : 04 February 2020 19:07:52(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,060
Location: Port Moody, BC
As I stated in an earlier post in this thread, once I changed to the standard Roco 40195 with needle point axle the loco performs perfectly. However, the wheelsets look ugly. If I could only find an equivalent with spoked wheels and no needle point I would be very happy.
Offline Rinus  
#19 Posted : 04 February 2020 20:08:06(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
I was thinking, how about using the front bogie wheels of a steamer?

There must be one with about the same size?

I was thinking about the front wheel set of a Br 64

From Marklin
Offline PMPeter  
#20 Posted : 04 February 2020 20:20:18(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,060
Location: Port Moody, BC
I already tried that. Unfortunately, most of these front bogie wheels have too large a diameter (around 10.4 mm). These bind within the bogie assembly. If you can find some that are between 9 - 10 mm for AC, they should work.
Offline Rinus  
#21 Posted : 05 February 2020 08:43:00(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
I’m going to give it a try.

Try to find out the dimensions of the front wheel at my local dealer of the br 64 mentioned above and those two.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

If it works I’ll rename the E52 to Fleischlin!

Rinus
Offline Rinus  
#22 Posted : 05 February 2020 15:25:13(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Was able to measure the front wheels of a Br64 and 24 at my local dealer.

The Br64 measured 8.9 mm and the Br24 9.8 mm. I’m going to order 4 of the Br64 wheels Laufradsatz Artikel-Nr.: E152202.

Rinus

Edited by user 06 February 2020 12:02:36(UTC)  | Reason: Includerd article number

Offline PMPeter  
#23 Posted : 05 February 2020 15:55:39(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,060
Location: Port Moody, BC
Are both of the locos that you measured Maerklin with AC wheels? 9.8 mm would be an exact size replacement for the affected Fleischmann DC wheels.

Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of going down to a hobby shop to measure things here in Vancouver.

Peter
Offline Rinus  
#24 Posted : 06 February 2020 06:54:39(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Having a shop nearby certainly has some benefits BigGrin

I assume they are AC as they are both Marklin locomotives. The axle was not insulated.

Rinus
Offline Rinus  
#25 Posted : 11 February 2020 12:34:11(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Great news!

Today the Marklin wheelsets arrived. The Marklin E152202 from the Br64 is slightly smaller compared to the original Flm E52 wheels. The perfectionist could try the 1 mm larger Br24 wheels.


I changed wheels on one side. On the number 1 side the Marklin wheels are installed. The number 2 side has the original.

C8FCA888-17A6-4BDB-B1C2-BE735C814533.jpeg

D9E4DFC9-C5E1-4712-A1A8-67DAFADDA1A8.jpeg

A2B10110-A78A-4E07-A42E-92F6BB3A3B7E.jpeg

Looking good I would say Cool

Then I went for a drive.

IMG_0153.MOV (8,857kb) downloaded 13 time(s).

For me a perfect solution and I’m very happy! This enables me to use this fantastic locomotive as it should be. I’m gonna give Flm and MSL an update. This could be helpful for others.

Regards,

Rinus

Edited by user 11 February 2020 17:23:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline PMPeter  
#26 Posted : 11 February 2020 15:56:33(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,060
Location: Port Moody, BC
This is great information. Where did you buy these replacement wheels? I can find 2 on eBay Germany for ridiculous shipping charges to Canada.

Peter
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Offline Rinus  
#27 Posted : 11 February 2020 17:22:14(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,720
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Offline PMPeter  
#28 Posted : 11 February 2020 19:34:09(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,060
Location: Port Moody, BC
I don't think I can order directly from North America so I will have to look for other sources.
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