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Offline John Ferguson  
#1 Posted : 05 March 2019 16:57:58(UTC)
John Ferguson

United Kingdom   
Joined: 22/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 50
Location: Essex
I understand that this forum members of which have been very useful to me is not a Company forum but managed by third parties.

This is in contrast to the forums created by their competitor Companies Viessmann and ESU for the Commander and the ECOS command stations.

Those forums are supported by technical staff employed by the Companies.

For technical support I have sent emails to Service Märklin <service@maerklin.de> for the attention of Frank Mayer. The replies take time to be responded to and lack any detail to be really helpful.

An example is asking for details of the enhanced mode that can be selected on the CS3 plus.

This is the answer I received:-

Please note, that there is also an extended mode for the CS 3. This mode is only for experts. Here we have no user manual for this mode. You need extreme much experience to use this mode. And it is impossible to put all information, which is necessary to use this mode, into one user manual. We beg your pardon but here we cannot give you any support.

How can any one find out what it does even for experts? I have also written to the managing director to ask for amendment pages for the English manual that no longer match the software installed on the CS 3 pending the issue of a revised version. No answer has been received.

The fact is that while the Company has a range of superb products it is failing to invest in resources to support them.

I am not expecting the Company to help me automate my layout but at least they should be able to explain the software functions they are providing.

It is just not good enough.

John
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Offline TEEWolf  
#2 Posted : 05 March 2019 17:49:29(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: John Ferguson Go to Quoted Post
I understand that this forum members of which have been very useful to me is not a Company forum but managed by third parties.

This is in contrast to the forums created by their competitor Companies Viessmann and ESU for the Commander and the ECOS command stations.

Those forums are supported by technical staff employed by the Companies.

For technical support I have sent emails to Service Märklin <service@maerklin.de> for the attention of Frank Mayer. The replies take time to be responded to and lack any detail to be really helpful.

An example is asking for details of the enhanced mode that can be selected on the CS3 plus.

This is the answer I received:-

Please note, that there is also an extended mode for the CS 3. This mode is only for experts. Here we have no user manual for this mode. You need extreme much experience to use this mode. And it is impossible to put all information, which is necessary to use this mode, into one user manual. We beg your pardon but here we cannot give you any support.

How can any one find out what it does even for experts? I have also written to the managing director to ask for amendment pages for the English manual that no longer match the software installed on the CS 3 pending the issue of a revised version. No answer has been received.

The fact is that while the Company has a range of superb products it is failing to invest in resources to support them.

I am not expecting the Company to help me automate my layout but at least they should be able to explain the software functions they are providing.

It is just not good enough.

John



Hello John,

if you have this understanding about this Märklin forum, why are you complaining? Even you only write Märklin's answer. But what were your questions to Märklin? What do you mean by "enhanced mode"? Only knowing this I can evaluate a correct answer. Whereas in this case I refer to the CS 3 manual page 13. Märklin writes "Tip: The blue areas are only intended for experts. Please change something only when you know what you are doing.". Again iin the update informations for version 1.4.0 for the CS 3 on page 5 "III. ADD-ons for specalists". The same request by Märklin. What are you thinking why Märklin is doing this? Just for fun or are you a specialist?

BTW Märklin recommends to do as others in the forum are doing already. They ask the specialist at this forum for help and they get help by forum members. Compare the topic about the new, not documented macro #brake#.

Regards

TEEWolf
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline John Ferguson  
#3 Posted : 05 March 2019 18:41:51(UTC)
John Ferguson

United Kingdom   
Joined: 22/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 50
Location: Essex
How does anyone become a specialist if there is no explanation of what the software does.

Yes the explanation for the breaking macro was very useful but why is it left to a customer to offer the explanation or was the writer a member of the Company?

I need to understand more about the support offered by members of this forum.

By enhanced mode I meant the option in the system screen referred to as extended mode. What does it do. It may be for experts but how does an expert find out what these modes actually do?

I am complaining because the Company is not responding.

John
Offline Danlake  
#4 Posted : 05 March 2019 19:55:00(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,384
Hi John,

There is no professional, technical support from Marklin.

There is however standard company consumer support.

For technical support you best bet is this forum or join the US Marklin Digital club and you can send email to the 2 consultants working for them.

ESU, Friewald software (Traincontroller), LDT products etc. are some of the companies that do provide in-depth technical support.

And don’t forget that the owner of Marklin is one of the largest toy companies in the world, not a specialised technical company (they are selling main stream consumer products).

It would be nice if it was otherwise, but that is just not the case...

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline John Ferguson  
#5 Posted : 05 March 2019 20:36:46(UTC)
John Ferguson

United Kingdom   
Joined: 22/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 50
Location: Essex
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
Hi John,

There is no professional, technical support from Marklin.

There is however standard company consumer support.

For technical support you best bet is this forum or join the US Marklin Digital club and you can send email to the 2 consultants working for them.

ESU, Friewald software (Traincontroller), LDT products etc. are some of the companies that do provide in-depth technical support.

And don’t forget that the owner of Marklin is one of the largest toy companies in the world, not a specialised technical company (they are selling main stream consumer products).

It would be nice if it was otherwise, but that is just not the case...

Best Regards
Lasse


Hi Lasse

I appreciate your reply which helps me to understand the situation. However the CS3 is not a toy but a mainstream digital command station.

In my opinion it should be treated differently as they are in competition with Viessmann and ESU. You wonder whether Marklin understands the potential for the product.

I will look into the USA club.

Thank you

John
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#6 Posted : 05 March 2019 20:44:05(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,403
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: John Ferguson Go to Quoted Post
.....was the writer a member of the Company?


Well, Peter is in New Zealand (which you can see from his profile) and Marklin are in Germany, so its very unlikely Peter works for Marklin....

Since I know him personally, I can confirm that he doesn't work for Marklin.

Your experiences with Marklin service are nothing new, many on the forum have their own stories of dealing with them. Generally they take the theme of a lack of communication from the Marklin Service Department.

My partially broken Gauge 1 BR194 sitting at home is testament to the lack of help from the Service Department.
Offline TEEWolf  
#7 Posted : 05 March 2019 22:36:21(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: John Ferguson Go to Quoted Post
.....was the writer a member of the Company?


Well, Peter is in New Zealand (which you can see from his profile) and Marklin are in Germany, so its very unlikely Peter works for Marklin....

Since I know him personally, I can confirm that he doesn't work for Marklin.

Your experiences with Marklin service are nothing new, many on the forum have their own stories of dealing with them. Generally they take the theme of a lack of communication from the Marklin Service Department.

My partially broken Gauge 1 BR194 sitting at home is testament to the lack of help from the Service Department.


Well, Märklin writes in its information and manual very clear, they cannnot provide a technical support for specialists. Nevertheless they provide people with possibilities to use it for their own advantage. For me it is honest and not an unkindliness for customers.

Normally you learn at school, university, at work, in special training courses or perhaps as an autodidact very special skills. I really do not understand, why people are not able to read and accept it?

Or did you ever hear from a publisher or press company they are teaching their customers in reading, before they may read their books and papers?
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Henrik Schütz  
#8 Posted : 05 March 2019 23:30:22(UTC)
Henrik Schütz

Sweden   
Joined: 04/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: Stockholms Lan, Stockholm
Well well, there is an expert in Germany who has made a 700 side manual for the CS3 and +, should cover pretty much everything. It is only available as E Book, so I hope it will be updated. Sorry German only😑.

The advice to RTFM takes a new dimension with 700 sides.

Henrik Schütz
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#9 Posted : 05 March 2019 23:36:30(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,403
Location: New Zealand
Why not? If a manufacturer builds a product and sells it to people they should be prepared to provide all documentation regarding that device.

Ford provide user manuals and service manuals for both my cars. Studer Revox provided user manuals and service manuals for my Revox B77 open reel recorders. Both manufacturers release(d) service bulletins for these products once issues were identified and needed fixing. What is so special about Marklin that they are somehow exempted from providing information?

Regarding the Marklin Service Department, it isn't necessarily the issue that they don't provide technical information, the issue is that they don't provide any information.

Regarding my G1 BR194, it has a problem that out of the box brand new it would only run for 5 minutes before stopping dead with no response to controller input. The loco had to be removed from any power input for about 15 minutes before it would respond again, with the same thing happening again. The loco was sent back to the Marklin Service Centre at great cost to me (10% of the locos value), and was returned to me 3 months later with no advance warning that it was on its way to me and no advice as to what was done to the loco. The loco now runs for about 45 minutes before experiencing the same problem, so I guess that's an improvement if it can be called that! I have emailed the Service Centre asking for information on what was done to the loco by the Service Centre, and what now needs to be done to fully resolve the problems. After about 3 months I've had no reply from the Service Centre, which I think is appalling service.

It seems that if questions are asked that they can't or do no want to respond to, the standard response is not to respond.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#10 Posted : 05 March 2019 23:43:39(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,403
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Henrik Schütz Go to Quoted Post
Well well, there is an expert in Germany who has made a 700 side manual for the CS3 and +


I've seen that advertised on the BWBahn website.

UserPostedImage

CS3 eBook

Offline xxup  
#11 Posted : 06 March 2019 01:11:29(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 8,840
Location: Australia
Here is the (Google translated) Table of Contents from the book. I can't see any reference to an enhanced mode:

1. Märklin's digital control units 21

1.1 Small Historical View 21

1.2 The CAN Bus (Bus System) - A Brief Overview 22

1.3 Quick start for the production of the first operational readiness of the CS3 33

1.4 Integrating legacy devices into the new hardware environment 42

1.5 Calling up the system menu as a starting point 45

1.6 Transfer your own images to CS3 or 2 92

1.7 Digital driving with the CS3 95

1.8 Decoder types and decoder configuration 168

1.9 Programming aids for decoder 198

1.10 Handling the track control desk 213

1.11 Creating a track control image 250

1.12 The trolley control desk (formerly Memory) 275

2. Task, function and integration of the chassis dynamometer 318

2.1 Purpose of a chassis dynamometer 318

2.2 Technical equipment and situation 319

2.3 Conclusion 320

3. Overview of Märklin Digital Devices, Decoders and Accessories 321

3.1 Analog Travel Transformer (32 VA) 321

3.2 Switching power supply (36 VA) 327

3.3 Switching power supply (60 VA) 336

3.4 Booster 339

3.5 Converter (Inverter) 343

3.6 Mobile Station 2 or 3 347

3.7 Central Station 2 355

3.8 Central Station 3 - Innovations compared to the previous version 366

3.9 The electrical siding 378

3.10 Digital connection box 383

3.11 Connect-6017 386

3.12 Connect 6021 388

3.13 MS II hub (distributor) 393

3.14 Terminal 395

3.15 FCC radio interference suppression set 2 A 399

3.16 FCC radio interference suppression set 5 A 401

3.17 Connection kit with radio interference suppression and overload protection 403

3.18 Connecting cable, long (60123) 405

3.19 Adapter cable (60124) 406

3.20 Extension cable (60126) 407

3.21 Connection adapter (60200) 408

3.22 locomotive map 411

3.23 Digital decoder m83 for switching magnetic items 414

3.24 Accessory set for switching magnetic articles for the digital decoder m83 431

3.25 Digital decoder m84 for switching continuous current 434

3.26 Supply unit for k 83 / m 83 / m 84 443

3.27 L88 (Link s 88) 447

3.28 Feedback module decoder s 88 AC / DC 462

3.29 Two-way decoder with electric diverter for C-track system 468

3.30 Three-way soft decoder with electric diverter for the 485 C track system

3.31 Light signals without decoder - hobby area (start up program) 491

3.32 Non-mfx-compatible light signals in unit type of the Deutsche Bundesbahn (DB) 501

3.33 Mfx-compatible light signals in unit type of the German Federal Railroad (DB) 512

3.34 Mfx-suitable form signals of the German Federal Railways (DB) from epoch III to V 526

3.35 Brake module 540

3.36 gantry crane 545

3.37 Stationary rotary crane 550

3.38 Remote controlled turntable 553

3.39 Remote controlled sliding table 564

4. Table overviews 571

4.1 Coding values ​​for the DELTA decoders (dip-switches: quadruple) 571

4.2 Coding values ​​for the decoders c80 / 81 and c90 / 91 (dip-switch: eightfold) 572

4.3 Coding of the former HO-Digital locomotives arranged according to dip-switch position 573

4.4 The digital decoders m83 (60831) and m84 (60841) for switching magnetic or accessory items 575

4.5 Configuration variables for programming the shape signals (Art. 70361, 70381, 70411, 70412 and 70421) 596

4.6 Setting functions on the Digital Decoder m83 using the preset operating mode 598

4.7 Group addresses from 1 to 80 of the digital decoders k83 and k84 (so-called turnout decoder and continuous current decoder), which in the sense of the Central Station are referred to as "multiple decoder old" 599

4.8 Encoder address setting encoding table (74460), referred to as "Decoder old" (single addresses) 604, as configured in the Central Station configuration

4.9 Encoding table for the address settings at the switch decoders (74461 and 74465) as well as signal decoders (703xx, 704xx and 764xx) 613

4.10 Standard and assignment of turnout decoders; 626

4.11 Standard and assignment of the RJ-45 connectors on the s88-N 628

4.12 Configuration variables for programming the light signal series (Art. 76471, 76472, 76491, 76493 and 76494) 629

4.13 Configuration variables for the light (pre) signal series (Art. 76480, 76481, 76495, 76496 and 76497) 630

4.14 Configuration variables for the retrofit decoder sets and their 2nd and 3rd decoder generation settings (Art. 60942, 60962, 60972, 60982) 632

I would buy the book if there was an English edition.
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline TEEWolf  
#12 Posted : 06 March 2019 02:47:53(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Henrik Schütz Go to Quoted Post
Well well, there is an expert in Germany who has made a 700 side manual for the CS3 and +, should cover pretty much everything. It is only available as E Book, so I hope it will be updated. Sorry German only😑.

The advice to RTFM takes a new dimension with 700 sides.

Henrik Schütz


I bought this book (cover seen in post #10) and it is not as an e-book available. It is a CD with an PDF-file on it. Copyright allows you to copy the PDF-file on to your computer for usage. Yes, it is really much more detailed as manuals, other books and whatever I know. It gives informations nobody else told before about a CS 3. I have the impression and feeling Märklin has supported the author with a lot of internal details, pictures, etc.. It is describing the CS 3 up to software version 1.3.3.. We will see, if there will come an addition for the new software version.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline TEEWolf  
#13 Posted : 06 March 2019 02:55:38(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post


I would buy the book if there was an English edition.


You would not be the only one, I guess. But it is a major job translating this book into English. But even for this you need the permit of author and publisher as they are writing on page 3 in their book already.Smile
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline siroljuk  
#14 Posted : 06 March 2019 08:04:23(UTC)
siroljuk


Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 348
Hi,
I did order that book too and I have translated it to English with help of Deep Translator. It is very time consuming work but worth of doing. Unfortunately I cannot publish is here because of law.

Events and routes are my point of interest. This book is not up to date any more, because in latest update of CS3 there are many new features which we must learn by using and making mistakes and learning like many of you have said.

By experimenting with a feature at a time, I have come to believe that CS3 is such a device, of which I dreamed of years ago, when I learned to use CS2. Now it seems that the features of the device are being further developed taking into account the wishes expressed in the Forum.ThumpUp ThumpUp

Jukka
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Offline David Dewar  
#15 Posted : 06 March 2019 11:58:00(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,549
Location: Scotland
Model rail does appear to be getting over complicated. For me I just run trains with the CS3 Plus as per the Marklin book on the unit and have no bother.
My PC runs on Windows and I have no instructions for it and probably will never use half of what it can do.

From what I read Marklin service from the company is poor which is a shame but I never contact them and just get in touch with the dealer. Only ever had one problem with a signal which was replaced by the dealer immediately.

I know I am unique but all my locos work as does my CS2 and CS3. You can be sure however I will let all know if things go wrong as I do not accept poor service.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#16 Posted : 06 March 2019 12:07:26(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,403
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Why not? If a manufacturer builds a product and sells it to people they should be prepared to provide all documentation regarding that device.


Case in point - This is in relation to the new LGB 55029 decoder

https://www.lgb.com/serv...ical-information/decoder

Capture.JPG

Where is the rest of the information Marklin so kindly refer to but haven't provided......? Confused Confused

(Nice table of contents, but where is the rest of the information?)
Offline David Dewar  
#17 Posted : 06 March 2019 13:39:27(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,549
Location: Scotland
Perhaps because of the size of the business and the number of emails etc they just cant cope. Smaller companies are better but they don't have the same number of customers.

Quality control does appear to be a problem as there are a number of complaints on here but I don't know the percentage of faults to goods sold. Information supplied with locos and controllers is not great but their book on control etc is quite good and maybe should be supplied with a CS3.


I wonder of all this extra computer control is taking something away from the hobby of running our trains and increasing costs and giving rise to more failures.


However I suppose it is the way forward but I for one will never drive one of my steamers with a mobile phone but then I am a bit (a lot) older.


I feel that dealers should play their part and helping their customers. If I am not sure how something in my car works I phone the dealer not the manufacturer.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline siroljuk  
#18 Posted : 06 March 2019 15:48:52(UTC)
siroljuk


Joined: 29/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 348
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
I feel that dealers should play their part and helping their customers.


There are only a few merchants in Finland who sell Märklin's products. There were merchants in the 1960s from who could be bought and who also provided some level of support. Today, I only have one, from who I can gets support and he is about 300 kilometers from where I live.

In Finland all prices are so high that I buy all Märklin staff from Germany and when I have to contact service I contact direct Märklin Service. The best support and know how I get from this Forum ThumpUp ThumpUp and if I know something that somebody is asking for I will always give my best. This is how hobby ( IMHO) has been for many years now and I'm satisfied.

Experts of this Forum from all over the World are BESTBigGrin BigGrin

BTW. As some one can remember, at the end of last year I broke my CS3Plus. ( I was trying to get sound from CS3 to active speakers).
Today I got that device back from Märklin Service ( no warranty cost were about 260€). Now I start to study what man can get using two CS3Plus Master and Slave, I think it is interesting to see what can be done with these two devices and two external device ( PC and tablet). If I find something new [i] will tell you about it.

Regards

Jukka
Offline John Ferguson  
#19 Posted : 06 March 2019 17:10:21(UTC)
John Ferguson

United Kingdom   
Joined: 22/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 50
Location: Essex
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Here is the (Google translated) Table of Contents from the book. I can't see any reference to an enhanced mode:


I looked at the list of contents and could see nothing about the details of the software functions installed on the CS3.

But I might be wrong,

John

Edited by moderator 06 March 2019 23:54:09(UTC)  | Reason: Removed entire post quote

Offline kiwiAlan  
#20 Posted : 06 March 2019 23:17:22(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,092
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Here is the (Google translated) Table of Contents from the book. I can't see any reference to an enhanced mode:


That is because the book is now out of date with the new software update.

Maybe we need ot be careful, as now an ebook is not perfect in anticipating updates, and Goofy will complain ... Scared Woot Tongue
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Offline TEEWolf  
#21 Posted : 07 March 2019 01:30:58(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
That is because the book is now out of date with the new software update.

Maybe we need ot be careful, as now an ebook is not perfect in anticipating updates, and Goofy will complain ... Scared Woot Tongue


You are teasing.Huh First, it is not an ebook, it is a huge PDF file on a CD. Second, it is state of the art only ending for CS 3 software version 1.3.3.. Which is logic, because it was issued before version 1.4.0. occured at the horizon.BigGrin
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#22 Posted : 07 March 2019 01:58:46(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,403
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
....it is a huge PDF file on a CD.


That's an eBook, whether it is on a CD or not is irrelevant. An eBook is an electronic version of a book as opposed to a physical book with pages.

The CD just happens to be the media they use to distribute the eBook rather than having it online.
Offline TEEWolf  
#23 Posted : 07 March 2019 02:21:37(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
....it is a huge PDF file on a CD.


That's an eBook, whether it is on a CD or not is irrelevant. An eBook is an electronic version of a book as opposed to a physical book with pages.

The CD just happens to be the media they use to distribute the eBook rather than having it online.


I understand an e-book as a book only usable on an e-book reader in the special e-book format. Whereas a PDF book can be read with all PDf viewers on a normal computer. The major point for the CS 3 workbook, it is in the general PDF format available.
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#24 Posted : 07 March 2019 04:11:19(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,403
Location: New Zealand
ebooks come in lots of formats, pdf (Portable Document Format) being one of them.
Offline Drongo  
#25 Posted : 07 March 2019 10:52:27(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Sydney, NSW
May I throw my 2 cents in, regarding Marklin Service department and especially Frank Mayer. I've had an enormous amount of problems with my Marklin products - as some of you know, I have a very small business in which I install layouts in nursing homes here in Sydney. I've been doing this for over 3 years years and I've bought quite a lot of Marklin products during this time. I estimate that I've returned approximately 20% of the locos, turnout motors, etc. in this time, and never a decent report on the repairs. It has now got to the stage where Frank Mayer has informed me that his service department will no longer support me. His reason - "I complain too much". Frank, if your company made quality products I wouldn't need to return them. Don't blame the customer - blame the production department. "Great" customer relations. Cursing Cursing Cursing Cursing

Now I'm looking at other manufacturers for my locomotives.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#26 Posted : 07 March 2019 11:07:01(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,403
Location: New Zealand
Sad when that happens!
Offline David Dewar  
#27 Posted : 07 March 2019 12:53:46(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,549
Location: Scotland
It appears recently that our forum is just for complaints and advising against buying Marklin. What happened to the good old days when although at times things went wrong this was a fun place to come to discuss our hobby.

Im off for a cuppa and run trains all of which work and thanks to Marklin give me a lot of pleasure.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Ranjit  
#28 Posted : 07 March 2019 16:52:12(UTC)
Ranjit

Malaysia   
Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,869
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Wilayah Persekutuan, MALAYSIA / Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
I am with you, David! Keep a cuppa for me!

Cheers,
Ranjit
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
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Offline Thewolf  
#29 Posted : 07 March 2019 17:34:08(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,402
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
It appears recently that our forum is just for complaints and advising against buying Marklin.


Hi David Cool

Are you sure about that?

Except for Goofy who occasionally drops some bullshit (or jokes rather) about Marklin, I don't remember anything else.

Thewolf

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#30 Posted : 07 March 2019 21:22:10(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 410
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Are you sure about that?

I'm kind of with David on this one. In my circles people refer to this forum as the "m-haters (and users)"-forum. Names like this does not come from nothing...
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#31 Posted : 07 March 2019 22:04:47(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,403
Location: New Zealand
There have been one or two who have been like that, but I think if someone has a valid concern, they should be able to discuss it freely providing its done respectfully. Not everyone's experience is the same - Dave hasn't had any issues and is happy, Greg has had lots of issues so isn't happy. I've had one or two issues, one of which is with an expensive loco and which my queries about are being ignored. Put yourself in our positions and ask yourself how you would then feel!

Are you saying Tom (H0) is a Marklin hater because he refuses to buy the latest Marklin models, preferring to buy older Marklin models or models from other manufacturers?

People glibly assign labels to others without actually bothering to fully understand the issues they present - we all do it, especially with Politicians! If people are labeling the forum as 'M Haters', well that's their problem to get over.
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Offline Drongo  
#32 Posted : 08 March 2019 02:14:00(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 997
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
There have been one or two who have been like that, but I think if someone has a valid concern, they should be able to discuss it freely providing its done respectfully. Not everyone's experience is the same - Dave hasn't had any issues and is happy, Greg has had lots of issues so isn't happy. I've had one or two issues, one of which is with an expensive loco and which my queries about are being ignored. Put yourself in our positions and ask yourself how you would then feel!

Are you saying Tom (H0) is a Marklin hater because he refuses to buy the latest Marklin models, preferring to buy older Marklin models or models from other manufacturers?

People glibly assign labels to others without actually bothering to fully understand the issues they present - we all do it, especially with Politicians! If people are labeling the forum as 'M Haters', well that's their problem to get over.


Thanks Dave for the support. I believe that my complaints are valid and I've often written to Marklin to express my thoughts that by me complaining about their poor products is only because I want Marklin to improve their products so that we can all enjoy our hobby. I've always said that my complaints are meant to be constructive criticism and I want to keep supporting Marklin, but if they keep producing rubbish, why would I want to buy from Marklin. If Marklin take offence to my complaints then it's their problem and if they don't want to address the problems then they suffer the consequences.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#33 Posted : 08 March 2019 06:05:57(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 410
Of course people are allowed to express their concerns. This should not be like the group on Facebook where you can't say anything negative (I believe it is actually a forum rule). If somebody has a valid point, then by all means, complain. It just seems like complaining is what fills up the majority of new threads. I think the negativity puts a lot of people off though. The forum is not as "alive" as it used to be.

Also, if you have been told by Märklin Service that they cannot help you because of all your problems, there has to be more to the story than "just sending a lot of email/repairs". Something has happened that made them say that. We cannot know, because we only have one side of the story. I will not take side when I don't know the whole picture.

Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Are you saying Tom (H0) is a Marklin hater because he refuses to buy the latest Marklin models, preferring to buy older Marklin models or models from other manufacturers?

I can't see how you can come to the conclusion that one named person is a hater from reading my text.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#34 Posted : 08 March 2019 09:24:56(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,403
Location: New Zealand
I said that to illustrate the point......
Offline David Dewar  
#35 Posted : 08 March 2019 15:43:18(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,549
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
There have been one or two who have been like that, but I think if someone has a valid concern, they should be able to discuss it freely providing its done respectfully. Not everyone's experience is the same - Dave hasn't had any issues and is happy, Greg has had lots of issues so isn't happy. I've had one or two issues, one of which is with an expensive loco and which my queries about are being ignored. Put yourself in our positions and ask yourself how you would then feel!

Are you saying Tom (H0) is a Marklin hater because he refuses to buy the latest Marklin models, preferring to buy older Marklin models or models from other manufacturers?

People glibly assign labels to others without actually bothering to fully understand the issues they present - we all do it, especially with Politicians! If people are labeling the forum as 'M Haters', well that's their problem to get over.


Thanks Dave for the support. I believe that my complaints are valid and I've often written to Marklin to express my thoughts that by me complaining about their poor products is only because I want Marklin to improve their products so that we can all enjoy our hobby. I've always said that my complaints are meant to be constructive criticism and I want to keep supporting Marklin, but if they keep producing rubbish, why would I want to buy from Marklin. If Marklin take offence to my complaints then it's their problem and if they don't want to address the problems then they suffer the consequences.


If you think Marklin is producing rubbish then why buy it. I certainly would not buy anything that was rubbish.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Thewolf  
#36 Posted : 08 March 2019 17:36:46(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,402
Location: Longueuil-Canada
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post

I believe that my complaints are valid and I've often written to Marklin to express my thoughts that by me complaining about their poor products is only because I want Marklin to improve their products so that we can all enjoy our hobby. I've always said that my complaints are meant to be constructive criticism and I want to keep supporting Marklin, but if they keep producing rubbish, why would I want to buy from Marklin. If Marklin take offence to my complaints then it's their problem and if they don't want to address the problems then they suffer the consequences.


Hi everybodyCool

I didn't follow the whole thread.

But one word offends me: rubbish

I don't understand why you keep spending your money on Marklin equipment that you call rubbish.

And what puzzles me even more is that it seems you insist on buying Marklin, when obviously you have a grudge against Marklin

Have a nice day

Thewolf

Project Laurentides-Neudstadt-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline scraigen  
#37 Posted : 08 March 2019 21:34:34(UTC)
scraigen


Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 167
Location: Sheffield,
I always (deluded) hope that someone at M would be looking at this forum (this being the best M forum out there), in which case it’s just as valid to discuss issues/concerns/complaints as well as praise.

But as I have found posting anything that isn’t praise of M is often simply not welcome.

The original poster’s complaint seems to me perfectly valid. The manufacturer should be the one best equipped to answer questions about expert mode. Poor John seemed to get abuse from complaining that M seem unwilling to support their own products.

Likewise Drongo also seemed to get a hard time, when he sends back 20% of the stuff he buys and M say they won’t support him is very poor of M.

Suggestions like ‘buy somewhere else’ are extremely unhelpful, I expect most if not all people on here have huge investments in M both financially and from a sentimental aspect. Ripping up a layout, disposing of many years of collecting is not easy.

Often sharing a frustration with someone is a helpful process, that should be allowed on the forum too.
Must build something
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Offline Purellum  
#38 Posted : 08 March 2019 22:10:37(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,899
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: scraigen Go to Quoted Post
But as I have found posting anything that isn’t praise of M is often simply not welcome.


There are a very members "defending" Märklin as if it was their own children; but I don't think it's representative.

Originally Posted by: scraigen Go to Quoted Post
The original poster’s complaint seems to me perfectly valid. The manufacturer should be the one best equipped to answer questions about expert mode.


I agree.

Originally Posted by: scraigen Go to Quoted Post
Poor John seemed to get abuse from complaining that M seem unwilling to support their own products.

Likewise Drongo also seemed to get a hard time, when he sends back 20% of the stuff he buys and M say they won’t support him is very poor of M.


I see a few having another opinion, not abuse or getting a hard time.

And I absolutely agree that they've been led down by Märklin.

Originally Posted by: scraigen Go to Quoted Post
Often sharing a frustration with someone is a helpful process, that should be allowed on the forum too.


Of course it should be allowed; and I'm 100% sure that it is allowed.

Maybe not everybody will agree with you; but that's part of debating on a forum.

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

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Offline Purellum  
#39 Posted : 08 March 2019 22:20:37(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,899
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
In my circles people refer to this forum as the "m-haters (and users)"-forum. Names like this does not come from nothing...


Try to visit a forum of both 2-railers and 3-railers, and see the fights being fought there LOL

Then you can talk about "m-haters" BigGrin

Märklin-haters in this forum it is almost like the immortals in the movie "Highlander" LOL

UserPostedImage

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline TEEWolf  
#40 Posted : 08 March 2019 23:12:15(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: scraigen Go to Quoted Post
I always (deluded) hope that someone at M would be looking at this forum (this being the best M forum out there), in which case it’s just as valid to discuss issues/concerns/complaints as well as praise.

But as I have found posting anything that isn’t praise of M is often simply not welcome.

The original poster’s complaint seems to me perfectly valid. The manufacturer should be the one best equipped to answer questions about expert mode. Poor John seemed to get abuse from complaining that M seem unwilling to support their own products.

Likewise Drongo also seemed to get a hard time, when he sends back 20% of the stuff he buys and M say they won’t support him is very poor of M.

Suggestions like ‘buy somewhere else’ are extremely unhelpful, I expect most if not all people on here have huge investments in M both financially and from a sentimental aspect. Ripping up a layout, disposing of many years of collecting is not easy.

Often sharing a frustration with someone is a helpful process, that should be allowed on the forum too.


This statement is weird.
First this thread is about the software support of the new CS update 1.4.0. - nothing else.
Second, I cannot complain in a lack of support by Märklin, although in Germany it is at first the dealer's duty to give this support, not the manufacturer. I get this support by my dealer writing him approriate mails. I do not know, what people doing and sending mails to Märklin to receive such answers.

But it upsets me, if people do not read Märklin's informations for its software update information 1.4.0. Why are people not able to read and accept the explanations and appologies of Märklin? Yes, Märklin is rigth not to give the required extent of support for the software. It is too expensive. If you order this support by an external software company you pay about 2.000 € to 3.000 € PER DAY - per person! What shall a loco still cost to fullfil the desire of these people? Why they are not willing to read and accept Märklin's information and apology? I am not willing to pay higher prices for locos, digital devices, etc.. These are already expensive enough. But I appreciate the hint, listing, offer and reporting by Märklin what may be possible with its products, if you have the knowledge to deploy these features.

Here again the part of Märklin's information and apology:

Gebr. Märklin & Cie GmbH
UpdateInformation CS 3 1.4.0. - Page 5

https://www.maerklin.de/...ate_1_4-0_info-02_en.pdf

Quote:
"III. Add-Ons for Specialists

The CS 3 offers the trained specialist a series of additional options chiefly in the processing of events. Years of experience with the use of such processes and algorithms as well as knowledge of the underlying mathematics and computer science are necessary for the application of these options. No introduction in the world can simply replace a multi-year study of these special areas.

Anyone not feeling at home in these techniques should therefore limit themselves to the basic techniques such as staging yard control or block route control. For applications that are more complex it is imperative that the user be able to create and design correspondingly complex procedures. Here, the hands of the Märklin customer service are tied regarding help. An appropriately complex procedure must be described in detail so that an expert could test it. This would still be an extremely time-consuming process, whose costs no model railroader would be ready to pay. We therefore hope you understand that even the Märklin customer service can only give rudimentary support here."[unquote]

CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline David Dewar  
#41 Posted : 08 March 2019 23:43:29(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,549
Location: Scotland
If 20% of the stuff I buy was faulty I would not be on here or running anything Marklin on my layout.

Anybody new coming to the hobby does not want to read about Marklin producing rubbish. Things do go wrong and on here people can help to put them right but surely we should be promoting Marklin on a Marklin site.

I don't say my football team are rubbish and tell folk to support another team.

am I the only one on here that has almost no problems with Marklin. It would appear so.

I don't like manufacturers taking back products direct or answering customers questions. This in my view should be done by the selling dealer. If dealers can't answer questions and do repairs then they should not be dealers. Anybody can take a model off a shelf and post it but a dealer should have knowledge of the product.


My old Roco dealer (sadly now not with us) tested every loco before despatch and also had a chap who could do repairs if required.

Anyway Glasgow Rangers could only draw tonight so Im off to support Celtic lol.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#42 Posted : 08 March 2019 23:48:16(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 450
Location: Paris, France
Hi

I am sorry to intrude in this discussion.
Like many fellow Märklinists we like the brand, the "things" they are producing and they are not always perfect.
I am amazed to read that some have a 20% defective items in Märklin stuff they purchase. I must be in a different planet because it happens on occasions to have problems but not anywhere near that figure.
I like this forum, because it is about sharing problems and finding solutions. Where have some seen that this forum is about Märklin haters. Yes we may have some members very vocal but not that many.
Also when there is a problem it may be Märklin's fault but it may also be the end-user's or the dealer's.
Last, Märklin is working on very long range solutions, some of which cannot be disclosed too early. This may be the reason why of those "strange" functionalities (serving apparently no purpose until you discover the entire picture and the full development picture. In our machines (CS,..) are features under beta testing so we need to be patient.
The German way is apparently about doing things extremely well and communicate later (and sometimes poorly.
Voilà, sorry
Cheers

Jean
My lay-out videos
General operation
Loco change
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#43 Posted : 09 March 2019 05:06:09(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,403
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
This statement is weird.


Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
...Märklin is rigth not to give the required extent of support for the software. It is too expensive.


I find this statement weird! In fact I would say its rubbish!

If the manufacturer is not going to provide support / documentation, who else will? Yes they might have to charge for support, but at least support should be available.....

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Offline scraigen  
#44 Posted : 09 March 2019 12:20:19(UTC)
scraigen


Joined: 29/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 167
Location: Sheffield,
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
This statement is weird...


Thanks TEEWolf you pretty much just reinforced everything my post was about.

Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
...Märklin is rigth not to give the required extent of support for the software. It is too expensive.

I find this statement weird! In fact I would say its rubbish!

If the manufacturer is not going to provide support / documentation, who else will? Yes they might have to charge for support, but at least support should be available.....


Thanks Bigdaddynz for the support.
Must build something
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Offline TEEWolf  
#45 Posted : 10 March 2019 17:35:36(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
This statement is weird.


Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
...Märklin is rigth not to give the required extent of support for the software. It is too expensive.


I find this statement weird! In fact I would say its rubbish!

If the manufacturer is not going to provide support / documentation, who else will? Yes they might have to charge for support, but at least support should be available.....



You know, sometimes I am severe criticizing Märklin e.g. for its more than insufficient translations. When they are not able to translate and publish their technical tips or - as others here in this forum has stated - that the help function in the CS 3 is not totally translated into another setted language than German, even not for English. So partially it is written in English and in German. This is unacceptable. Especially today where translations can be done to a large extent by computers.

But not to be able separating between a toy manufacturer and an IT systems engineering company, I thought you could do this. In particular Märklin is providing many supports, but these are supports for toys not for computer programs.

"If you have any questions about classic and new models, digital technology and system connection, the Märklin service team will be happy to help you.”
Remark by Märklin in the Märklin Magazine 2019-01, German edition, page 101 underneath the section "Readers' questions?"
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline Purellum  
#46 Posted : 10 March 2019 20:50:29(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,899
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
"If you have any questions about classic and new models, digital technology and system connection,
the Märklin service team will be happy to help you.”


As long as you don't ask any difficult questions............ LOL

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

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Offline Crazy Harry  
#47 Posted : 12 March 2019 01:41:31(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 279
Location: Oakville, Ontario
The help screens in the CS3 are a fine example of insufficient translations. See my findings, post 25 in this thread: Brake Macro Thread.

Harold.
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