I understand that this forum members of which have been very useful to me is not a Company forum but managed by third parties.

This is in contrast to the forums created by their competitor Companies Viessmann and ESU for the Commander and the ECOS command stations.

Those forums are supported by technical staff employed by the Companies.

For technical support I have sent emails to Service Märklin <service@maerklin.de> for the attention of Frank Mayer. The replies take time to be responded to and lack any detail to be really helpful.

An example is asking for details of the enhanced mode that can be selected on the CS3 plus.

This is the answer I received:-

Please note, that there is also an extended mode for the CS 3. This mode is only for experts. Here we have no user manual for this mode. You need extreme much experience to use this mode. And it is impossible to put all information, which is necessary to use this mode, into one user manual. We beg your pardon but here we cannot give you any support.

How can any one find out what it does even for experts? I have also written to the managing director to ask for amendment pages for the English manual that no longer match the software installed on the CS 3 pending the issue of a revised version. No answer has been received.

The fact is that while the Company has a range of superb products it is failing to invest in resources to support them.

I am not expecting the Company to help me automate my layout but at least they should be able to explain the software functions they are providing.

It is just not good enough.

John

How does anyone become a specialist if there is no explanation of what the software does.

Yes the explanation for the breaking macro was very useful but why is it left to a customer to offer the explanation or was the writer a member of the Company?

I need to understand more about the support offered by members of this forum.

By enhanced mode I meant the option in the system screen referred to as extended mode. What does it do. It may be for experts but how does an expert find out what these modes actually do?

I am complaining because the Company is not responding.

John

Hi Lasse

I appreciate your reply which helps me to understand the situation. However the CS3 is not a toy but a mainstream digital command station.

In my opinion it should be treated differently as they are in competition with Viessmann and ESU. You wonder whether Marklin understands the potential for the product.

I will look into the USA club.

Thank you

John

Well, Märklin writes in its information and manual very clear, they cannnot provide a technical support for specialists. Nevertheless they provide people with possibilities to use it for their own advantage. For me it is honest and not an unkindliness for customers.

Normally you learn at school, university, at work, in special training courses or perhaps as an autodidact very special skills. I really do not understand, why people are not able to read and accept it?

Or did you ever hear from a publisher or press company they are teaching their customers in reading, before they may read their books and papers?

Why not? If a manufacturer builds a product and sells it to people they should be prepared to provide all documentation regarding that device.

Ford provide user manuals and service manuals for both my cars. Studer Revox provided user manuals and service manuals for my Revox B77 open reel recorders. Both manufacturers release(d) service bulletins for these products once issues were identified and needed fixing. What is so special about Marklin that they are somehow exempted from providing information?

Regarding the Marklin Service Department, it isn't necessarily the issue that they don't provide technical information, the issue is that they don't provide any information.

Regarding my G1 BR194, it has a problem that out of the box brand new it would only run for 5 minutes before stopping dead with no response to controller input. The loco had to be removed from any power input for about 15 minutes before it would respond again, with the same thing happening again. The loco was sent back to the Marklin Service Centre at great cost to me (10% of the locos value), and was returned to me 3 months later with no advance warning that it was on its way to me and no advice as to what was done to the loco. The loco now runs for about 45 minutes before experiencing the same problem, so I guess that's an improvement if it can be called that! I have emailed the Service Centre asking for information on what was done to the loco by the Service Centre, and what now needs to be done to fully resolve the problems. After about 3 months I've had no reply from the Service Centre, which I think is appalling service.

It seems that if questions are asked that they can't or do no want to respond to, the standard response is not to respond.

Here is the (Google translated) Table of Contents from the book. I can't see any reference to an enhanced mode:

1. Märklin's digital control units 21

1.1 Small Historical View 21

1.2 The CAN Bus (Bus System) - A Brief Overview 22

1.3 Quick start for the production of the first operational readiness of the CS3 33

1.4 Integrating legacy devices into the new hardware environment 42

1.5 Calling up the system menu as a starting point 45

1.6 Transfer your own images to CS3 or 2 92

1.7 Digital driving with the CS3 95

1.8 Decoder types and decoder configuration 168

1.9 Programming aids for decoder 198

1.10 Handling the track control desk 213

1.11 Creating a track control image 250

1.12 The trolley control desk (formerly Memory) 275

2. Task, function and integration of the chassis dynamometer 318

2.1 Purpose of a chassis dynamometer 318

2.2 Technical equipment and situation 319

2.3 Conclusion 320

3. Overview of Märklin Digital Devices, Decoders and Accessories 321

3.1 Analog Travel Transformer (32 VA) 321

3.2 Switching power supply (36 VA) 327

3.3 Switching power supply (60 VA) 336

3.4 Booster 339

3.5 Converter (Inverter) 343

3.6 Mobile Station 2 or 3 347

3.7 Central Station 2 355

3.8 Central Station 3 - Innovations compared to the previous version 366

3.9 The electrical siding 378

3.10 Digital connection box 383

3.11 Connect-6017 386

3.12 Connect 6021 388

3.13 MS II hub (distributor) 393

3.14 Terminal 395

3.15 FCC radio interference suppression set 2 A 399

3.16 FCC radio interference suppression set 5 A 401

3.17 Connection kit with radio interference suppression and overload protection 403

3.18 Connecting cable, long (60123) 405

3.19 Adapter cable (60124) 406

3.20 Extension cable (60126) 407

3.21 Connection adapter (60200) 408

3.22 locomotive map 411

3.23 Digital decoder m83 for switching magnetic items 414

3.24 Accessory set for switching magnetic articles for the digital decoder m83 431

3.25 Digital decoder m84 for switching continuous current 434

3.26 Supply unit for k 83 / m 83 / m 84 443

3.27 L88 (Link s 88) 447

3.28 Feedback module decoder s 88 AC / DC 462

3.29 Two-way decoder with electric diverter for C-track system 468

3.30 Three-way soft decoder with electric diverter for the 485 C track system

3.31 Light signals without decoder - hobby area (start up program) 491

3.32 Non-mfx-compatible light signals in unit type of the Deutsche Bundesbahn (DB) 501

3.33 Mfx-compatible light signals in unit type of the German Federal Railroad (DB) 512

3.34 Mfx-suitable form signals of the German Federal Railways (DB) from epoch III to V 526

3.35 Brake module 540

3.36 gantry crane 545

3.37 Stationary rotary crane 550

3.38 Remote controlled turntable 553

3.39 Remote controlled sliding table 564

4. Table overviews 571

4.1 Coding values ​​for the DELTA decoders (dip-switches: quadruple) 571

4.2 Coding values ​​for the decoders c80 / 81 and c90 / 91 (dip-switch: eightfold) 572

4.3 Coding of the former HO-Digital locomotives arranged according to dip-switch position 573

4.4 The digital decoders m83 (60831) and m84 (60841) for switching magnetic or accessory items 575

4.5 Configuration variables for programming the shape signals (Art. 70361, 70381, 70411, 70412 and 70421) 596

4.6 Setting functions on the Digital Decoder m83 using the preset operating mode 598

4.7 Group addresses from 1 to 80 of the digital decoders k83 and k84 (so-called turnout decoder and continuous current decoder), which in the sense of the Central Station are referred to as "multiple decoder old" 599

4.8 Encoder address setting encoding table (74460), referred to as "Decoder old" (single addresses) 604, as configured in the Central Station configuration

4.9 Encoding table for the address settings at the switch decoders (74461 and 74465) as well as signal decoders (703xx, 704xx and 764xx) 613

4.10 Standard and assignment of turnout decoders; 626

4.11 Standard and assignment of the RJ-45 connectors on the s88-N 628

4.12 Configuration variables for programming the light signal series (Art. 76471, 76472, 76491, 76493 and 76494) 629

4.13 Configuration variables for the light (pre) signal series (Art. 76480, 76481, 76495, 76496 and 76497) 630

4.14 Configuration variables for the retrofit decoder sets and their 2nd and 3rd decoder generation settings (Art. 60942, 60962, 60972, 60982) 632

I would buy the book if there was an English edition.

You would not be the only one, I guess. But it is a major job translating this book into English. But even for this you need the permit of author and publisher as they are writing on page 3 in their book already.

Model rail does appear to be getting over complicated. For me I just run trains with the CS3 Plus as per the Marklin book on the unit and have no bother.
My PC runs on Windows and I have no instructions for it and probably will never use half of what it can do.

From what I read Marklin service from the company is poor which is a shame but I never contact them and just get in touch with the dealer. Only ever had one problem with a signal which was replaced by the dealer immediately.

I know I am unique but all my locos work as does my CS2 and CS3. You can be sure however I will let all know if things go wrong as I do not accept poor service.

Perhaps because of the size of the business and the number of emails etc they just cant cope. Smaller companies are better but they don't have the same number of customers.

Quality control does appear to be a problem as there are a number of complaints on here but I don't know the percentage of faults to goods sold. Information supplied with locos and controllers is not great but their book on control etc is quite good and maybe should be supplied with a CS3.


I wonder of all this extra computer control is taking something away from the hobby of running our trains and increasing costs and giving rise to more failures.


However I suppose it is the way forward but I for one will never drive one of my steamers with a mobile phone but then I am a bit (a lot) older.


I feel that dealers should play their part and helping their customers. If I am not sure how something in my car works I phone the dealer not the manufacturer.

I looked at the list of contents and could see nothing about the details of the software functions installed on the CS3.

But I might be wrong,

John

Edited by moderator 06 March 2019 23:54:09(UTC)  | Reason: Removed entire post quote

You are teasing. First, it is not an ebook, it is a huge PDF file on a CD. Second, it is state of the art only ending for CS 3 software version 1.3.3.. Which is logic, because it was issued before version 1.4.0. occured at the horizon.

I understand an e-book as a book only usable on an e-book reader in the special e-book format. Whereas a PDF book can be read with all PDf viewers on a normal computer. The major point for the CS 3 workbook, it is in the general PDF format available.

May I throw my 2 cents in, regarding Marklin Service department and especially Frank Mayer. I've had an enormous amount of problems with my Marklin products - as some of you know, I have a very small business in which I install layouts in nursing homes here in Sydney. I've been doing this for over 3 years years and I've bought quite a lot of Marklin products during this time. I estimate that I've returned approximately 20% of the locos, turnout motors, etc. in this time, and never a decent report on the repairs. It has now got to the stage where Frank Mayer has informed me that his service department will no longer support me. His reason - "I complain too much". Frank, if your company made quality products I wouldn't need to return them. Don't blame the customer - blame the production department. "Great" customer relations.

Now I'm looking at other manufacturers for my locomotives.

It appears recently that our forum is just for complaints and advising against buying Marklin. What happened to the good old days when although at times things went wrong this was a fun place to come to discuss our hobby.

Im off for a cuppa and run trains all of which work and thanks to Marklin give me a lot of pleasure.

Hi David

Are you sure about that?

Except for Goofy who occasionally drops some bullshit (or jokes rather) about Marklin, I don't remember anything else.

Thewolf

There have been one or two who have been like that, but I think if someone has a valid concern, they should be able to discuss it freely providing its done respectfully. Not everyone's experience is the same - Dave hasn't had any issues and is happy, Greg has had lots of issues so isn't happy. I've had one or two issues, one of which is with an expensive loco and which my queries about are being ignored. Put yourself in our positions and ask yourself how you would then feel!

Are you saying Tom (H0) is a Marklin hater because he refuses to buy the latest Marklin models, preferring to buy older Marklin models or models from other manufacturers?

People glibly assign labels to others without actually bothering to fully understand the issues they present - we all do it, especially with Politicians! If people are labeling the forum as 'M Haters', well that's their problem to get over.

Of course people are allowed to express their concerns. This should not be like the group on Facebook where you can't say anything negative (I believe it is actually a forum rule). If somebody has a valid point, then by all means, complain. It just seems like complaining is what fills up the majority of new threads. I think the negativity puts a lot of people off though. The forum is not as "alive" as it used to be.

Also, if you have been told by Märklin Service that they cannot help you because of all your problems, there has to be more to the story than "just sending a lot of email/repairs". Something has happened that made them say that. We cannot know, because we only have one side of the story. I will not take side when I don't know the whole picture.


I can't see how you can come to the conclusion that one named person is a hater from reading my text.

If you think Marklin is producing rubbish then why buy it. I certainly would not buy anything that was rubbish.

I always (deluded) hope that someone at M would be looking at this forum (this being the best M forum out there), in which case it’s just as valid to discuss issues/concerns/complaints as well as praise.

But as I have found posting anything that isn’t praise of M is often simply not welcome.

The original poster’s complaint seems to me perfectly valid. The manufacturer should be the one best equipped to answer questions about expert mode. Poor John seemed to get abuse from complaining that M seem unwilling to support their own products.

Likewise Drongo also seemed to get a hard time, when he sends back 20% of the stuff he buys and M say they won’t support him is very poor of M.

Suggestions like ‘buy somewhere else’ are extremely unhelpful, I expect most if not all people on here have huge investments in M both financially and from a sentimental aspect. Ripping up a layout, disposing of many years of collecting is not easy.

Often sharing a frustration with someone is a helpful process, that should be allowed on the forum too.

Try to visit a forum of both 2-railers and 3-railers, and see the fights being fought there

Then you can talk about "m-haters"

Märklin-haters in this forum it is almost like the immortals in the movie "Highlander"



Per.

If 20% of the stuff I buy was faulty I would not be on here or running anything Marklin on my layout.

Anybody new coming to the hobby does not want to read about Marklin producing rubbish. Things do go wrong and on here people can help to put them right but surely we should be promoting Marklin on a Marklin site.

I don't say my football team are rubbish and tell folk to support another team.

am I the only one on here that has almost no problems with Marklin. It would appear so.

I don't like manufacturers taking back products direct or answering customers questions. This in my view should be done by the selling dealer. If dealers can't answer questions and do repairs then they should not be dealers. Anybody can take a model off a shelf and post it but a dealer should have knowledge of the product.


My old Roco dealer (sadly now not with us) tested every loco before despatch and also had a chap who could do repairs if required.

Anyway Glasgow Rangers could only draw tonight so Im off to support Celtic lol.

I find this statement weird! In fact I would say its rubbish!

If the manufacturer is not going to provide support / documentation, who else will? Yes they might have to charge for support, but at least support should be available.....

You know, sometimes I am severe criticizing Märklin e.g. for its more than insufficient translations. When they are not able to translate and publish their technical tips or - as others here in this forum has stated - that the help function in the CS 3 is not totally translated into another setted language than German, even not for English. So partially it is written in English and in German. This is unacceptable. Especially today where translations can be done to a large extent by computers.

But not to be able separating between a toy manufacturer and an IT systems engineering company, I thought you could do this. In particular Märklin is providing many supports, but these are supports for toys not for computer programs.

"If you have any questions about classic and new models, digital technology and system connection, the Märklin service team will be happy to help you.”
Remark by Märklin in the Märklin Magazine 2019-01, German edition, page 101 underneath the section "Readers' questions?"

The help screens in the CS3 are a fine example of insufficient translations. See my findings, post 25 in this thread: Brake Macro Thread.

Harold.

Had my CS3 Plus for six months now with no problems. I have not updated it as yet and have no need to.

Goofy anything you buy appears to have a problem from Marklin to Noch downpipes and others. Maybe you have the wrong hobby.