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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#1 Posted : 11 February 2019 16:24:15(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,975
Location: NY, NY
Hi everyone,

I have a 3015 Crocodile I recently scored for an amazing price. I'm going to convert it to Digital using the big ESU magnet and Lokpilot. But first, while the locomotive is in great shape it has a little mileage, and I want to give it a deep clean/service so all is in great order once converted.

Knowing this is a complex locomotive, does anyone have tips (or more specifically teardown-reassembly shortcuts) for cleaning dirty gearing or linkages on these?

Thanks in advance! I may get into the locomotive this coming weekend.

Edited by user 03 February 2020 02:07:14(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
Offline jvuye  
#2 Posted : 11 February 2019 16:32:30(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,841
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Hi everyone,

I have a 3015 Crocodile I recently scored for an amazing price. I'm going to convert it to Digital using the big ESU magnet and Lokpilot. But first, while the locomotive is in great shape it has a little mileage, and I want to give it a deep clean/service so all is in great order once converted.

Knowing this is a complex locomotive, does anyone have tips (or more specifically teardown-reassembly shortcuts) for cleaning dirty gearing or linkages on these?

Thanks in advance! I may get into the locomotive this coming weekend.


Hi John
I am currently rebuilding one (basically) from scratch and will document the whole operation in every detail.
It is for a CCS 800.1 but the design differences, albeit substantial are immaterial for the purpose of cleaning and re-assembling as well as for aligning everything.
If you can wait for a couple of weeks, I should have the whole process posted by then.
Cheers
Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 9 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#3 Posted : 11 February 2019 18:32:41(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,975
Location: NY, NY
Wow! It can absolutely wait :) Many thanks in advance!

I have a few other projects int he works which can keep me plenty busy until then. Good luck with yours!
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
Offline DaleSchultz  
#4 Posted : 11 February 2019 20:55:33(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,405
Ho John,

Apart from opening the loco itself and the type of commutator... the approach is the same for any old loco... here is my write-up from some years back for a 3048:

https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com/2004/02/installingdigitaldecoder.html

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline jvuye  
#5 Posted : 12 February 2019 00:22:06(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,841
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
Ho John,

Apart from opening the loco itself and the type of commutator... the approach is the same for any old loco... here is my write-up from some years back for a 3048:

https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com/2004/02/installingdigitaldecoder.html


Dale, I agree with you on the electrical part of it.

Mechanically speaking the CCS 800/ 3015 is a **very** different beast and way more complicated.
The re-assembly requires , among other things, a perfect centering of the cardan joints between the center and the two articulated sub-chassis, otherwise the lok will "wiggle" on the track and make an awful noise .

Cleaning and reassembling the transmission in the "noses" again requires precision, as the helicoidal gears will have excessive friction if the angle and spacing are not 100% correct

The motor itself had a its axle placed longitudinally. When reassembling the two halves of the center chassis, again you need perfect alignment otherwise the motor won't spin freely.

And a few more things....BigGrin Wink Smile

Cheers

Jacques

Edited by user 12 February 2019 10:25:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 7 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#6 Posted : 03 February 2020 02:01:51(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,975
Location: NY, NY
Hi all,

A year later, I've finally dug into this. I decided to do the mechanical portion of the job today, although I did not go for a full strip-down of the locomotive, it was running perfectly.

I put in the ESU magnet for the motor, and reassembled everything. I then replaced the rear axle screws (for the con-rods) for the Marklin plastic part number. so I now have the chassis back in one piece, and pending test runs that part of the job is done.

I know am about to tackle the electrical, and am having a look at the locomotive. I'm not sure if this is original, or an in-period modificaiton, but it had the prototypical "3+1" swiss lighting rigged up. I'd like to keep this, but am a but confused on how unless I go about some major surgery/electronics.

Does anyone have an idea? I did find this thread below which seems to make sense, but I'm not quite sure what it would look like in practical application - wire coloring must be amiss/incorrect for a lokpilot? And if this seems to work can anyone recommend an appropriate small diode to use?

https://www.marklin-user...nversion--Swiss-lighting
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#7 Posted : 05 February 2020 21:08:26(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,975
Location: NY, NY
Hi- slight bump to see if anybody has ideas or inputs!
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
Offline jvuye  
#8 Posted : 05 February 2020 21:53:27(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,841
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

A year later, I've finally dug into this. I decided to do the mechanical portion of the job today, although I did not go for a full strip-down of the locomotive, it was running perfectly.

I put in the ESU magnet for the motor, and reassembled everything. I then replaced the rear axle screws (for the con-rods) for the Marklin plastic part number. so I now have the chassis back in one piece, and pending test runs that part of the job is done.

I know am about to tackle the electrical, and am having a look at the locomotive. I'm not sure if this is original, or an in-period modificaiton, but it had the prototypical "3+1" swiss lighting rigged up. I'd like to keep this, but am a but confused on how unless I go about some major surgery/electronics.

Does anyone have an idea? I did find this thread below which seems to make sense, but I'm not quite sure what it would look like in practical application - wire coloring must be amiss/incorrect for a lokpilot? And if this seems to work can anyone recommend an appropriate small diode to use?

https://www.marklin-user...nversion--Swiss-lighting


Hi John!
"Swiss lighting" is an original featuredating back to the early days of the 3015/ CCS 800. That's what the slider switch on one of the chassis was for.

Here's how I have done it with digital conversions

1° I use the directional (light) outputs (white and yellow) for the top and rear lights
2° I use two additional function outputs ( green and purple )of the lokpilot to drive the left lower lights idependently
3° Using the Lokprogrammer, I map the function inputs into the respective function outputs to match the light scheme.

For example
F0 for the upper and right lights bulbs
F1 for the directional control of Aux 1 and Aux 2
F3 to switch off the rear right light if you want to do s0o

You can think of almost any combination

You can of course program the normal 3+1 scheme, but now in addition with the use of another function input you can also switch the rear single white light off.

All the function input can be mapped to any function output, including multiple times and also direction dependant.

But be careful: the older light bulbs use quite a lot of power and you should check that two bulbs drawing together from the same output won't overtax the decoder capacity : each individual output has a max capacity of 250 mA / output **but** the sum total of all the current drawn on the output shouldn't exceed 280 mA.

So check before you end up making smoke signs that would be visible all the way to Cincinnati!Wink Smile

Of course the Lokprogrammer here is practically indispensable (unless you are a computer genius...Wink ) . IMHO well worth the investment.

Cheers and good luck

Jacques

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#9 Posted : 06 February 2020 17:53:43(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,975
Location: NY, NY
Thanks so much! My apprenticeship under you continues... BigGrin That is a remarkably logical and simple idea, and I can set it up via the ecos I believe, or a lokprogrammer if not.

More importantly thanks for the current-draw warning. That is going to take some homework to source the draw. And of course LED or similar replacement isn't an option due to the mounting aesthetics. (and dare I say the extra wiring...)

Much appreciated, this evening I'm going to try and vet the electronics involved here...
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
Offline Bart  
#10 Posted : 06 February 2020 18:41:35(UTC)
Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

Does anyone have an idea? I did find this thread below which seems to make sense, but I'm not quite sure what it would look like in practical application - wire coloring must be amiss/incorrect for a lokpilot? And if this seems to work can anyone recommend an appropriate small diode to use?

https://www.marklin-user...nversion--Swiss-lighting


Hi John
There have been multiple treads on this topic. The one you are citing is not my favorite, with diodes misplaced and missing wires in the graphs.

If you are using a LokPilot or other decoder with at least 2 amplified additional AUX outputs, Jacques' suggestion is a very elegant option.

A slightly simpler version (using 1 AUX output) is described in the LokPilot manual, including a wiring scheme.
For example, see section 12.6 and Figure 18 in the LokPilot v4 manual (or search the manual for Swiss headlight Mode / Schweizer Lichtwechsel).
For an electronics novice, this may be the simplest way.

If you would prefer hard wiring with diodes rather than sacrificing additional AUX outputs, here is an earlier discussion on the topic
posts/t877-Installing-a-decoder-in-a-3125-Roter-Pfeil

As a diode, the extremely common 1N4001 is appropriate.




*Bart
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Bart
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#11 Posted : 06 February 2020 22:00:00(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,975
Location: NY, NY
Thanks Bart! Another interesting option (and I guess I should have read the manual!) Although it offers less flexibility on the lighting vs what Jacques proposed.

Sounds like this will be easy, assuming the decoder can actually handle all of these bulbs. Looks like one bulb uses .62 milliamps at 20VDC. So per function output at 124mA or .62mA is safe, however 4 of these adds up to 248 milliamps drawing at once. Is that too close/risky to the 280 limit?

I looked at the Lokpilot 5 catalog to see if simply using the new version of the decoder would eliminate any concerns, we have no increased capacity there
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#12 Posted : 09 February 2020 20:41:22(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,975
Location: NY, NY
An update: we have a running croc! Some notes on progress, although there is more to do:

Updates/success:

- I removed one pickup shoe, which seemed unnecessary
- 135ohm resistors fixed the function/lightbulb current draw issue. They look a hair dim, but is reduces draw to a safe 48mA per bulb. For the twin bulbs (F0) I used 56 ohm
- I wired them as per Jacques suggestion, both for functionality and the fact it meant cleaner electrical routing
- CV tuning for motor performance has been a major job (the auto-tune did not work at all), but its behaving rather well now. I may adjust later

Next step:

- Function mapping for the swiss headlight changeover. Math to follow, possibly in a separate thread for education's sake.

In all- thanks for the help! If have never imagined this beast of a motor could be tamed to run so smoothly... Images etc to follow once it is complete...

Edited by user 01 March 2020 07:24:20(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#13 Posted : 01 March 2020 19:11:40(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,975
Location: NY, NY
Hi all! The project is done. Frankly it was quite simple, I just had a lot of "firsts" in the process which required thought and all of your help. For those attempting this in the future, here were my final specs, which should save a lot of experimentation:

1- The "main" headlights, meaning the contact which uses two bulbs, I used 56 ohm resistors
2- The F1 and F2 "backup" lights I used a 135 or 150 ohm resistor. I cannot remember which, but either should be close enough, and brightness matches the 56ohm above well

CV's: I think these could be improved for sure in the mid and high range, but I'm happy with them for now. Low end is fantastic

CV2: 4
CV51: 0
CV52: 50
CV53: 50
CV54: 50
CV55: 180
CV56: 200

I used the Ecos function mapper to simply add in the backup/rear light on the F0 functions. Its fairly self explanatory if you know the ecos.

Happy conversions!
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
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Offline jvuye  
#14 Posted : 02 March 2020 22:17:03(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,841
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Hi all! The project is done. Frankly it was quite simple, I just had a lot of "firsts" in the process which required thought and all of your help. For those attempting this in the future, here were my final specs, which should save a lot of experimentation:

1- The "main" headlights, meaning the contact which uses two bulbs, I used 56 ohm resistors
2- The F1 and F2 "backup" lights I used a 135 or 150 ohm resistor. I cannot remember which, but either should be close enough, and brightness matches the 56ohm above well

CV's: I think these could be improved for sure in the mid and high range, but I'm happy with them for now. Low end is fantastic

CV2: 4
CV51: 0
CV52: 50
CV53: 50
CV54: 50
CV55: 180
CV56: 200

I used the Ecos function mapper to simply add in the backup/rear light on the F0 functions. Its fairly self explanatory if you know the ecos.

Happy conversions!


Congratulations!
It looks like using the ESU magnet for the 3015 gives good results.
One of these days I'll update my 3015 too!
Thanks for bringing that idea back on the top of "the stack"Laugh Laugh
Cheers
Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#15 Posted : 03 March 2020 04:11:17(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,975
Location: NY, NY
The magnet was a delight- perfect fit and easy reassembly, seems to blend right in. Enjoy!
FS + SBB Era 2-5 and Vintage Marklin
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by 5HorizonsRR
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