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Offline PeFu  
#1 Posted : 30 October 2003 13:37:12(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,210
Hi all,

I'm considering installing a decoder (Märklin 60905) into a Märklin 3125 Roter Pfeil (which I haven't received yet).

confused Is the 60905 the proper decoder for the 3125? I have found very poor information on the Net about this.

confused With reference to the drawing http://produktadmin.maer...les/1/pdf/3125_explo.pdf , from e function point of view, could the "Leiterplatte" (N.o. 16) be completely removed and replaced by the decoder?

confused Would there then be enough space for the decoder, so that the "Inneneinrichtung" (N.o. 14), could remain as is?

Cool Peter
Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
Offline Webmaster  
#2 Posted : 30 October 2003 23:48:37(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
The 60905 decoder is about the same size as a normal 6090x decoder, a bit wider at the bottom though... Have you considered a LokPilot as an alternative? The 60905 is a decoder developed for DC can motors, and especially Faulhaber-type of motors. It is possible that you would do just as fine with a 60902, LokPilot or such. Those who have done this conversion can maybe tell us more...

However, the "Leiterplatte" also houses the diode logic for the Swiss lighting scheme as I understand, so you will have to make your own diode bridge if you wish the lighting to be prototypical by default. The tail light can of course be controlled by a function if you wish to do it that way...

Has anyone made their own "Swiss lighting" diode circuit when digitizing a loco of Swiss prototype? If so, a schematic would certainly be very welcome here... wink
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline perz  
#3 Posted : 31 October 2003 00:43:49(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
I haven't made any Swiss light change, but I have investigated how it works in the 37642 model. See: http://home.swipnet.se/perz/cv37642.html.
The 37642 has LEDs but the same principle applies to lamps.
Offline kgsjoqvist  
#4 Posted : 05 November 2003 11:21:46(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 754
Location: Täby
Nice addition to your rolling stock! Railcars are always fun ... they don't need much space. Usually they go in both directions and don't even need switching. And in this case it even looks good!

/K-G
K-G / H0 and Z model train user
Offline kgsjoqvist  
#5 Posted : 05 November 2003 11:26:34(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 754
Location: Täby
[img]http://www.maerklinisten.dk/schweiz/sbbrce24.htm[/img]

By the way, here is a picture of this model. Doesn't it look particularely cute with the little trailer?

/K-G
K-G / H0 and Z model train user
Offline jcegido  
#6 Posted : 06 November 2003 02:04:00(UTC)
jcegido


Joined: 11/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 335
Location: Madrid, Madrid
Hi Peter, all,
I´ve got your loco´s sister, the Blauer Pfeil (3127). I gave her a lokpilot, and believe me, it works really finewink. It´s just another option. I conected it straight to the can motor but, sorry, I´ve got no answer to achieve the Swiss lighting scheme[V]. I´m very interested in this question too.
Juan Carlos
Offline Gregor  
#7 Posted : 02 December 2003 21:20:33(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 996
Location: Netherlands
Hello All,

In the Insider magazine 3/2003, Marklin provided a wiring scheme as shown in the picture, to be able to run with Swiss lights.

L1: Front, Top and Left light
L2: Front, Right light
L3: Rear, Right light
L4: Rear, Top and Left light
(L1 can be one bulb with split light guide, or two bulbs. Same for L4)

Diodes are 1N4001

Grey and yellow lines are enabled through Function (Direction dependent)
Red/brown is enabled through F1
Red/green is enabled through F2
Orange is return wire (in picture this shows kind of brownish)

Now all the combinations are possible:
Function on, F1 on and F2 on: Normal mode, 3x front lights, 1x rear light
Function on, F1 on, F2 off: First loco in double traction, 3x front lights on, rear light off
Function off, F1 off, F2 on: Second loco in double traction, 3x front lights off, 1x rear light on.

When changing direction in double traction, one has to enable/disable F1 and F2 manually for both loco's.

Of course the lights can be replaced by LED's and 1kOhm resistors, as described in Per's contribution somewhere else in this forum.

Have fun,
Gregor

UserPostedImage
Offline jcegido  
#8 Posted : 09 December 2003 13:36:52(UTC)
jcegido


Joined: 11/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 335
Location: Madrid, Madrid
Hi all,
Did it work?Smile
Juan Carlos
Offline Gregor  
#9 Posted : 21 December 2003 11:08:08(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 996
Location: Netherlands

Don't know, I didn't try it myself yet. Personally I don't fully understand the presence of the diodes, I think it should function without them as well. Is there an electronic wizz person here to explain ?

Gregor
(Mechanical engineer, who has been charmed enough by all the wonders of digital operation to allow electronics to invade and take over his layout. A 1.5 m2 table full of relays and washing machine clocks is about to be discarded in favour of a laptop...)
Offline Bart  
#10 Posted : 22 December 2003 00:34:50(UTC)
Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 670
Hi all,
Here is a straightforward scheme for Swiss lighting.

UserPostedImage

It is quite simple to understand: starting at the left lower corner, when the grey wire is switched to (-) by the decoder, current will flow from orange (+) through all 3 leds at the front, but also through the single right led at the rear, via "y" and "z".
If one would omit the diode at the right side, current would now also flow through the rear top and left led, down via 'x' and then upward and via "z", to the grey wire. This explains the function of the diode.


The scheme posted by Gregor earlier is a dedicated scheme for the exceptional event of using double traction with 2 Swiss locs.
Basically, in that scheme, only the rear lights (L2 and L3) are switched by the grey and yellow wires, and, as usual, they may be switched off by F0.
The front lights have to be switched on and off manually, by F1 (front) or F2 (rear).
As you may see, the red & brown F1 wire draws current through both the right light (L2) and through L1, which represents the top and left light. (Older Swiss Mä locs have a single light bulb for the top and left light, and a separate one for the right light).
Thus, the front lights have to be switched on and off manually while changing direction. However, the advantage is that all lighting combinations for double traction may be made.

The diodes connected to the grey and yellow wires prevent other lights to go on (as described for the simple scheme above). To me, it appears that the diodes near L1 and L4 are not required; they probably have been added to cause a similar voltage reduction for all light bulbs, so that the brightness does not differ.
*Bart
Offline Webmaster  
#11 Posted : 22 December 2003 00:42:12(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Thanks Bart,

This is very useful!!!
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline PeFu  
#12 Posted : 10 February 2004 11:57:17(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,210
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bart
<br />Here is a straightforward scheme for Swiss lighting.


Thanks all for your contribution in this old thread, I plan to try Bart's schema. However, I have a few questions about the components required:

confused With reference to http://www.elfa.se , which diodes are appropriate? The 1N4001 or 1N4001G or something else?

confused How about the "1k" and "1.2k" components in the scheme, are these resistors? Which article N.o. would be approporiate?

Cool Peter
Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
Offline perz  
#13 Posted : 10 February 2004 21:42:03(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Diode: e.g. 1N4448 (Elfa 70-005-99), or 1N4001 (Elfa 70-003-67) are good alternatives.

The 1k and 1.2k are resistors. I would recommend 0.6 W metal film resistors (1k=Elfa 60-722-84, 1.2k=Elfa 60-723-67).
Offline PeFu  
#14 Posted : 18 February 2004 10:46:30(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,210
Thanks, Perz!

Cool Peter
Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
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