1 Gauge 20V LMS 4-4-0 E.65/13021

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1 Gauge 20V LMS 4-4-0 E.65/13021

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Philip Bowden		#1 Posted : 09 February 2019 11:12:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/02/2019(UTC) Posts: 3 Location: England, Milton Keynes		A friend has let me have a Marklin 1 gauge 20V electric loco and track. I believe the loco and tender are a model of the Midland Railway maroon 4P 4-4-0 numbered 999 from the Deeley 990 class. I think Marklin made an earlier shorter version of this model, with the brush covers exposed and a ‘B’ on the cab plate. The one I have is the longer version with the hinged flap over the brush covers and a ‘C’ on the cab plate. It has E.65/13021 on the right-hand splasher. It’s in original condition , in the sense that there has been no restoration that I can see. The loco and tender are complete as far as I know, and the loco paintwork is good, and better than the tender which has “browned” a little. They were purchased from Gamage’s in Holborn, London, along with Marklin track, transformer and controller. The loco and tender have the Gamage’s stamp on the undersides. The track has ‘Gamage’ pressed into the middle sleeper of each track piece. There are also some without this. There are two points, one LH and one RH, both with Bond’s London stamped under the base. The transformer, reference VDE TK1 No. 13475B, is in its original wooden box with a good part of the red label remaining, and there is also a Gamage’s label. After some careful cleaning, the loco and tender look pretty good. The inside of the transformer is very good with just some small corrosion on the leaves, and I have replaced the mains lead. The track was quite rusty, but looks cleaner now after some hard work. I’m pleased to say that I’ve had the loco running around an oval of the track, using the original transformer and controller. I think the track needs a bit more work to improve conductivity on the rails and between pieces. Sorry to go on a bit, but I wonder if someone could help me with some questions:- 1. One of the brushes was missing, and I have temporarily used a Hornby Dublo type replacement carbon which is shorter in diameter. Is there somewhere I can get original or replacement brushes, please? 2. Likewise, one of the headlamp bulbs is missing – the other works but is a bit frosted. Where might I get replacements? 3. As well as the two centre rail pick-up shoes, the loco has a small copper(?) cylinder mid-way between the two shoes. Centre rail friction wear has cut this into two pieces, still held on the pin. Does this matter, and what is it for? If I had to guess, I would say it’s to improve contact through points. 4. The loco has a small slot ahead of the chimney at the top of the smokebox door. Is this perhaps for a name-board, now missing? 5. My guess is that this model was made in the early 1930s. Is that correct, please? 6. Does anyone have any paperwork relating to this model that they could share, please? Any help would be greatly appreciated. It’s been great fun getting this far! Thanks. Philip

7 users liked this useful post by Philip Bowden		scraigen, Bigdaddynz, cookee_nz, Martti Mäntylä, kweekalot, Legless, steventrain
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cookee_nz		#2 Posted : 09 February 2019 21:53:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 4,013 Location: Paremata, Wellington		Here's a start, slightly different lettering, this is not uncommon, '999' may have been a special run for Gamages, even with the same reference. From the 1929 English edition Catalogue, this image below is the 13020 15" 0-gauge version so it's more compact than the 23" 1-gauge version. I did not spot it in any of the German catalogues ones I have for that period but I'll take another look later but I suggest it's certainly late 20's / early 30's. AWESOME SCORE!!! nice to have friends like that. It's got quite some value also, please add photos of the rest of what you got, plus the underside of the Loco, and a short video of it running would be awesome. Cheers Steve
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1 user liked this useful post by cookee_nz		Bigdaddynz
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kweekalot		#3 Posted : 09 February 2019 23:59:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 3,479 Location: Holland		Hello Philip, Welcome to the forum. Ritter Restaurationen is well known for their parts for pre-war Marklin. I think you can find your light bulb there and maybe some other parts too, like the coal and brush, in the Gauge 0 spare part section of their site. See here: https://www.ritter-resta...mail=;usrPwd=;katKey=2.8 Marco
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1 user liked this useful post by kweekalot		Bigdaddynz
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Pmare4		#4 Posted : 10 February 2019 02:34:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC) Posts: 237 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia		Hi Philip, I've consulted my copy of the Schiffmann Sammlerkatalog, and it looks like the E65/13021 was produced in LMS livery from 1926-34. I doubt the "999" numbering on the tender was specially produced for Gamages, instead I would assume it to be a representation of the earlier Midland Railway livery which would probably place your loco at the beginning of production in 1926 or 27. A photo of the crest on the loco's cabside would help to confirm this. The slot at the top of the smokebox door is probably for a third, dummy headlamp. By the way, your friend must be very generous as the loco is worth at least £1000! Best regards Peter
		Peter Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge

2 users liked this useful post by Pmare4		Bigdaddynz, Legless
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Philip Bowden		#5 Posted : 10 February 2019 14:56:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/02/2019(UTC) Posts: 3 Location: England, Milton Keynes		Many thanks Steve, Marco and Peter for the very helpful comments. I'm pretty certain Marklin would have modelled this loco on the real thing on the Midland Railway (absorbed later into the LMS) which made ten of these engines numbered from 990 to 999. I gather they were built between 1907 and 1909, and the last one to be withdrawn from service was 999 in 1929. None have survived. I've attached a few more photos. The track photo is just to show the difference between the middle sleepers on the 'Gamage' version (most of the track) and (I assume) the standard version. All the best. Philip


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steventrain		#6 Posted : 10 February 2019 16:16:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,707 Location: United Kingdom		Is any Logo marked on tender? The tender was from Bassett Lowke? >VECTIS AUCTION< Maybe swapped wrong tender?
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Philip Bowden		#7 Posted : 10 February 2019 17:43:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/02/2019(UTC) Posts: 3 Location: England, Milton Keynes		There is a mark on the rear of the tender - photo attached. Kind regards. Philip


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Pmare4		#8 Posted : 11 February 2019 07:01:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/10/2015(UTC) Posts: 237 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia		Originally Posted by: Philip Bowden Many thanks Steve, Marco and Peter for the very helpful comments. I'm pretty certain Marklin would have modelled this loco on the real thing on the Midland Railway (absorbed later into the LMS) which made ten of these engines numbered from 990 to 999. I gather they were built between 1907 and 1909, and the last one to be withdrawn from service was 999 in 1929. None have survived. I've attached a few more photos. The track photo is just to show the difference between the middle sleepers on the 'Gamage' version (most of the track) and (I assume) the standard version. All the best. Philip Hi Philip, Yes, Marklin modelled the loco on the real thing, although they were not able to keep up with the changes in livery following the grouping in 1923. Unlike Hornby, who in 1923-24 introduced a plethora of short-lived and inaccurate liveries in an attempt to keep up with the changes going on in the real world, it took Marklin until 1926 to realise that there had in fact been a change at all, hence LMS/LNER livery only began to appear in 1926/27. The crest on the cabside of your loco is unsurprisingly the Midland Railway crest, and the mark on the rear tender (I/48) tells you the gauge (1), and the width of the track (48mm). Gamages was a large department store in London, which retailed both Marklin and Bing trains, and it is common to find products from both manufacturers stamped with the Gamages name. The tender is not a product of Bassett Lowke or Bing (who manufactured many models for Bassett Lowke), but is clearly made by Marklin - the style of coupling betrays this more than anything else. Additionally the tender is soldered and handpainted, Bing products tended to be cheaper and were usually tabbed together and lithographed. Best regards Peter
		Peter Collecting vintage Märklin from 1935-1970, also Hornby O Gauge


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