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Offline JohnjeanB  
#1 Posted : 05 December 2018 13:15:04(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi

Here is a little video on the (very little) marshalling yard on my layout.
It is controlled by Rocrail and more specifically by the command recorder and is 100% automatic.




The main sensor (the one that activates the decoupler) is one of the decoupler rails (in fact only the half of it past the decoupler center).
It works not too bad but I need to replace it with on opto sensor.
This is a work in progress
If some of you are interested I can provide a more detailed description

Cheers

Jean
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Offline Chris6382chris  
#2 Posted : 05 December 2018 13:42:31(UTC)
Chris6382chris

United States   
Joined: 27/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,215
Location: Middle of the US
That is so cool. Really neat stuff.

Chris
Offline twmarklinfan  
#3 Posted : 05 December 2018 17:10:34(UTC)
twmarklinfan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 08/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 359
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent, United Kingdom
Very impressive,really enjoyed watching the video Thanks
Offline Jabez  
#4 Posted : 05 December 2018 23:45:09(UTC)
Jabez

Belgium   
Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 636
Location: Brussels
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

If some of you are interested I can provide a more detailed description

Jean

Yes, please do. The detached cars shoot off as if propelled by some impulse. Is the motion of the loco and its sudden stop combined with the precise moment of car uncoupling enough to produce this effect?
Jabez

I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#5 Posted : 06 December 2018 11:37:53(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi Jabez

Slope Because of limited space, the humping slope is reduced to a downhill gradient of 1% which from the decoupler and the first switch goes down to 3% and then the slope is reduced to 2% on the receiving tracks.

Automatic Operation
The automatic operation with Rocrail makes use of the command recorder (initiates orders from a text file). It includes:

- a starting phase (the humping signal is set to "manoeuver relatively slow", the receiving blocks are disabled (such as not to have a "ghost train"),
- a cycle for each car of: (a) setting the switch(s), (b) starting the loco, (c) set a pause of 5 seconds before next car cycle is processed.
- an ending phase which includes (a) setting the humping signal to "manoeuver fast", (b) reverse the humping engine back to the previous block, (c) stop the engine, (d) send a short horn signal, (e) set the humping signal to "stop manoeuvering", (f) re-enabeling the receiving tracks' block.

In parallel to this a Rocrail action, activated by the decoupler detection track (a) stops the humping engine, (b) triggers the decoupler both being adjusted in delay so that the train stops when the next coupling hook is above the decoupler and so that the decoupler is activated at the right time. If the decoupler is activated just a little past the coupling hook, it no only raises the hook but also gives the car an small horizontal impulse.

The decoupler (C-Track) is modified so that its tracks are insulated from each other and one of the rails is cut in its middle (using a dremel-like tool) and only the second half of one reail (past the decoupler center is used for detection

Voilà. I hope it is not too confusing
Cheers

Jean

Edited by user 08 December 2018 13:03:52(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 15 January 2019 13:59:10(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi

Here are some new developpments on the marshalling yard on my layout

First a video of the new behaviour


The changes:

Coupler detection by an optical (IR) gate
Why: the only way I found to detect the couplers in all sorts of wagon's shape is to have an Infra-Red beam shooting is an oblique way between the coupler and the buffer. The beam cannot be horizontal to work with all types of wagons..
How: a standard S88 input is high impedance, 5 V and a standard photo transistor (looking like a standard diode) can be simply connected to it and drive it. A 1 microfarad capacitor between the S88 input and the layout-ground suppress possible electrical noise caused by the decoupler. A standard IR diode is sending an IR beam. Very simple really
The IR Gate
UserPostedImage

The other thing is the XML- written program to drive the loco, the switches, signals and the decoupler
I can provide more details to those of you if needed.
Please provide opinions or ideas. Thanks
Cheers

Jean
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Offline orionstars  
#7 Posted : 23 January 2019 21:46:09(UTC)
orionstars

United States   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 83
Location: Midwest
This is so very cool!

Well done and I'll read the rest of this thread now. Just felt the need to instantly shout "Fantastic!"

Pete
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Offline Elsleuth1  
#8 Posted : 23 January 2019 22:21:59(UTC)
Elsleuth1

United States   
Joined: 23/04/2014(UTC)
Posts: 104
Super cool. In the 1960s I worked as a switchman in the Union Pacific yards near downtown Los Angeles. Part of my job was to ride the cars down the track and set the brake softening them so they didn't hit the cars already in line too hard. I was supposed to check the brakes on the cars already in the line. Once I skipped that step and when the moving car came in contact with the line of cars they went hurling down the track and smashed into the side of a standing car. It caused quite a bit of damage. I was lucky they didn't fire me.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 24 January 2019 13:38:13(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi

Thanks all for your comments.
Elsleuths: yes the key question is landing speed. I understand in the real railroad, they have speed radars computers and slowing down brakes.
In some countries in the past they used "drag shoes" (sabot de freinage in France) sort of wedge installed by teams "on the fly" very dangerous indeed!


Now the question is how to make this in miniature as I have no tools nor talent for creating precise mechanic devices?
Any ideas on the electro-mechanical part??

Cheers

Jean
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 24 January 2019 14:31:55(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi

Thanks all for your comments.
Elsleuths: yes the key question is landing speed. I understand in the real railroad, they have speed radars computers and slowing down brakes.
In some countries in the past they used "drag shoes" (sabot de freinage in France) sort of wedge installed by teams "on the fly" very dangerous indeed!


Now the question is how to make this in miniature as I have no tools nor talent for creating precise mechanic devices?
Any ideas on the electro-mechanical part??

Cheers

Jean


I have had some thoughts about something similar in the past. One thought had been to use some lengths of foam plastic fixed to rub on the back of the wheels, but this would be a permanent thing. Another option would be to use an R/C servo (like people use for point motors) to do the clamping action shown in that video.

The biggest problem is that the model wagons are so light that almost anything will stop them dead.

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Offline JohnjeanB  
#11 Posted : 24 January 2019 17:41:44(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi

Here is a video of of a real marshalling yard east of France (Woippy in Mosel region). Of course more and more shipment are with complete trains (no sorting out necessary).

Here you may see a double mashalling hump to speed up the train preparation and track brakes in action.
Of course my reproduction is very simplified but I would fill my train room with just 20% of thatBigGrin

Cheers

Jean
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#12 Posted : 30 January 2024 17:44:30(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

United States   
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 587
Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
Johnjean,

Greetings of a New Year (and, oh how I love spending other peoples money LOL LOL LOL )...however, I am sure you have seen this, but I thought I would post it here, as it does apply...Faller 120230

https://www.faller.de/miniaturwe...n/217/gleisbremsen?c=112

UserPostedImage


There is an allowance for our Pukos, so it could be a nice addition, although I believe this is "accessory" rather than "function" Wink Wink

and one could have this car from 2017, just as a little nudge to the operation...

UserPostedImage

ThumpUp
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; BR 111; KLVM; Primex; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#13 Posted : 31 January 2024 11:55:45(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

United States   
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 587
Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
Here is a proto video with the main action starting around 7:40 with some "Old School" action by the yard workers - "manual" Woot uncoupling indeed, and some tricky braking of the cars Scared


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZd3au8QL_c
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; BR 111; KLVM; Primex; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
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Offline Jimmy Thompson  
#14 Posted : 02 February 2024 14:33:51(UTC)
Jimmy Thompson

United States   
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC)
Posts: 587
Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City
And this has at around 9:40 the braking system just over the top of the hump;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtxep1PVANs
Jimmy T
Analogue; M-track; BR 111; KLVM; Primex; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt
There is a Prototype For Everything
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