Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline kamstutz  
#1 Posted : 30 November 2018 22:52:50(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Orlando, FL
I was looking through my 1951 Maerklin catalog and I noticed an interesting drawing on page 41 (also 1950 catalog on page 37) - that of a CCS800 crocodile pulling a long line of freight cars. Here is a cut out clipping from that catalog. (Click on the image to see a larger version)

Marklin1951-b.jpg

Based on the drawing and the product line-up in 1951 I believe that I have come up with the model numbers for the consist of this freight train. Here is my best guess. Should you have better guesses on some of these please feel free to comment.

  1. CCS800 - (SBB crocodile)
  2. 310 - (green luggage van)
  3. 312b - (Covered/Closed Goods van with flat roof)
  4. 325 "Gambrinus" - (Beer van "Gambrinus" with brakesman's cabin, white)
  5. 320/312b? - (Closed goods wagon)
  6. 322 - (Covered wagon)
  7. 311sb (brown open goods wagon with white stones)
  8. 361G - (Lumber truck (2 x 2 axle platforms))
  9. 316b - (Closed freight wagon)
  10. 314E - ("Esso" tank wagon with rectangle logos)
  11. 324 "Kuhlwagen" - (white refridgerated van)
  12. 322 - (covered wagon - as in wagon #5?)
  13. 311Hb - (open goods wagon with plastic logs insert)
  14. 332 - (4 axle box car with sliding doors)
  15. 311Kg - (green open goods wagon with coal load)
  16. 334E - (4 axle "Esso" tank wagon)
  17. 311kg? - (green open goods wagon with coal load)


A couple of these are just guesses since it's a bit difficult to make out some of the cars, but I think I'm pretty close. Checking my collection I came up with almost all of these (I didn't have a duplicate #322 so I used a #393 instead). I put the train together and gave it a run around my layout. Here's a short video of the entire train.



Conclusion: As powerful as the CCS800 is it does (did) have trouble pulling this 16 car train - especially going up and down grades. The die cast cars are very heavy and because of the "stubby" axles their rolling efficiency is not very good (in comparison with today's "cone" type axles). When going uphill I'll bet that the CCS800 would have struggled since at that time (1950/1951) the croc still didn't have traction tires, which, according to Koll's, only appeared in 1957. My CCS800 has traction tires and still had difficulty. When going downhill I noticed that the weight of the cars pushing against each other caused numerous derailments. So while lovely to look at in the catalog I rather doubt that this train was very viable.

Still a fun experiment and a good learning experience by hunting down these models. Anyone else modelled something from a catalog?

Kurt

thanks 13 users liked this useful post by kamstutz
Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 30 November 2018 23:17:41(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 3,728
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post

The die cast cars are very heavy and because of the "stubby" axles their rolling efficiency is not very good (in comparison with today's "cone" type axles). When going uphill I'll bet that the CCS800 would have struggled since at that time (1950/1951) the croc still didn't have traction tires,


I remember that picture in the catalogues ... I think it appeared in a number of publications.

I wonder when the last time you lubricated those stub axles. They are metal on metal which will have a fair drag, and the merest spot of oil will make a very big difference. Just getting a tiny drop on the end of a needle and touching the hole the stub axle rolls in will be more than enough oil.

The cone end axles run in a plastic housing which is much more free running as this tends to be somewhat "self lubricating" in that the surface of the plastic is quite slippery.

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline cookee_nz  
#3 Posted : 01 December 2018 05:08:52(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,719
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post

The die cast cars are very heavy and because of the "stubby" axles their rolling efficiency is not very good (in comparison with today's "cone" type axles). When going uphill I'll bet that the CCS800 would have struggled since at that time (1950/1951) the croc still didn't have traction tires,


I remember that picture in the catalogues ... I think it appeared in a number of publications.

I wonder when the last time you lubricated those stub axles. They are metal on metal which will have a fair drag, and the merest spot of oil will make a very big difference. Just getting a tiny drop on the end of a needle and touching the hole the stub axle rolls in will be more than enough oil.

The cone end axles run in a plastic housing which is much more free running as this tends to be somewhat "self lubricating" in that the surface of the plastic is quite slippery.



That's exactly what I was thinking so I'm glad you suggested it.

As well as the improved rolling of the wheels, I'm picking you'll also find a considerable reduction in noise from the consist.

Do the oiling and make another video BigGrin
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by cookee_nz
Offline Michael4  
#4 Posted : 01 December 2018 09:21:45(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 284
Location: England, South Coast
I see catenary masts for bridges...they seem to be very rare and always expensive!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Michael4
Offline kamstutz  
#5 Posted : 03 December 2018 04:31:41(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post

The die cast cars are very heavy and because of the "stubby" axles their rolling efficiency is not very good (in comparison with today's "cone" type axles). When going uphill I'll bet that the CCS800 would have struggled since at that time (1950/1951) the croc still didn't have traction tires,


I remember that picture in the catalogues ... I think it appeared in a number of publications.

I wonder when the last time you lubricated those stub axles. They are metal on metal which will have a fair drag, and the merest spot of oil will make a very big difference. Just getting a tiny drop on the end of a needle and touching the hole the stub axle rolls in will be more than enough oil.

The cone end axles run in a plastic housing which is much more free running as this tends to be somewhat "self lubricating" in that the surface of the plastic is quite slippery.



Alan - Good recommendation. I'll dot the axle ends with a bit of oil and retry the experiment. My other idea is to clean the wheels with my Dremel tool and a wire wheel brush. After 60 plus years there tends to be a build up of dirt that also may cause drag. Rolling efficiency can be improved dramatically when the wheels are cleaned.
Offline jvuye  
#6 Posted : 03 December 2018 22:42:15(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,534
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
I see catenary masts for bridges...they seem to be very rare and always expensive!


Indeed...as long as you can find them in one peace!Wink
My experience is that 6 out of 10 are riddled with zinkpest....
So if you find them handle with care!
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline jvuye  
#7 Posted : 03 December 2018 22:47:14(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,534
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
I was looking through my 1951 Maerklin catalog and I noticed an interesting drawing on page 41 (also 1950 catalog on page 37) - that of a CCS800 crocodile pulling a long line of freight cars. Here is a cut out clipping from that catalog. (Click on the image to see a larger version)

......

Based on the drawing and the product line-up in 1951 I believe that I have come up with the model numbers for the consist of this freight train. Here is my best guess. Should you have better guesses on some of these please feel free to comment.

  1. CCS800 - (SBB crocodile)
  2. 310 - (green luggage van)
  3. 312b - (Covered/Closed Goods van with flat roof)
  4. 325 "Gambrinus" - (Beer van "Gambrinus" with brakesman's cabin, white)
  5. 320/312b? - (Closed goods wagon)
  6. 322 - (Covered wagon)
  7. 311sb (brown open goods wagon with white stones)
  8. 361G - (Lumber truck (2 x 2 axle platforms))
  9. 316b - (Closed freight wagon)
  10. 314E - ("Esso" tank wagon with rectangle logos)
  11. 324 "Kuhlwagen" - (white refridgerated van)
  12. 322 - (covered wagon - as in wagon #5?)
  13. 311Hb - (open goods wagon with plastic logs insert)
  14. 332 - (4 axle box car with sliding doors)
  15. 311Kg - (green open goods wagon with coal load)
  16. 334E - (4 axle "Esso" tank wagon)
  17. 311kg? - (green open goods wagon with coal load)


A couple of these are just guesses since it's a bit difficult to make out some of the cars, but I think I'm pretty close. Checking my collection I came up with almost all of these (I didn't have a duplicate #322 so I used a #393 instead). I put the train together and gave it a run around my layout. Here's a short video of the entire train.

.........

Conclusion: As powerful as the CCS800 is it does (did) have trouble pulling this 16 car train - especially going up and down grades. The die cast cars are very heavy and because of the "stubby" axles their rolling efficiency is not very good (in comparison with today's "cone" type axles). When going uphill I'll bet that the CCS800 would have struggled since at that time (1950/1951) the croc still didn't have traction tires, which, according to Koll's, only appeared in 1957. My CCS800 has traction tires and still had difficulty. When going downhill I noticed that the weight of the cars pushing against each other caused numerous derailments. So while lovely to look at in the catalog I rather doubt that this train was very viable.

Still a fun experiment and a good learning experience by hunting down these models. Anyone else modelled something from a catalog?

Kurt



Cool.
I have done the same thing when I finally got all the bridges ...with solid center rail
Only missing enough pillars...RollEyes
I think your collection is missing a 322 with red taillights....Wink
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline kamstutz  
#8 Posted : 04 December 2018 03:41:35(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post

Cool.
I have done the same thing when I finally got all the bridges ...with solid center rail
Only missing enough pillars...RollEyes
I think your collection is missing a 322 with red taillights....Wink


Jacques my friend. I'm hoping that you meant that I'm missing a 320S with red taillights because unless you created a "one-off" I've never seen or heard of a 322 with taillights. Wink
BTW - If anyone comments about my bridge pillars looking like etched blue foam that hasn't been painted... FYI - I'm modelling a type of blue concrete brick from the 1950's that looks amazingly like blue foam... just a coincidence. Flapper

Edited by user 04 December 2018 18:27:01(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kamstutz
Offline jvuye  
#9 Posted : 04 December 2018 10:09:25(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,534
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
....

Jacques my friend. I'm hoping that you meant that I'm missing a 320S with red taillights because unless you created a "one-off" I've never seen or heard of a 322 with taillights. Wink
BTW - If anyone comments about my bridge pillars looking like etched blue foam that hasn't been painted... FYI - I'm modelling a type of blue concrete brick from the 1950's that looks amazingly like blue foam... just a coincidence. Flapper


Hi Kurt
Indeed, I was referring to a 320S . My mistake (and aging brains...)
Cheers

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#10 Posted : 04 December 2018 10:25:02(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,066
Location: New Zealand
Hey Guys, please avoid quoting entire posts in a thread multiple times, please edit the quote to include only the bit being referred to (which Jacques has done in his last post ThumpUp). This is part of the general forum guidelines (and normal netiquette)

Other than that, great topic!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline kamstutz  
#11 Posted : 04 December 2018 18:20:49(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Hey Guys, please avoid quoting entire posts in a thread multiple times, please edit the quote to include only the bit being referred to (which Jacques has done in his last post ThumpUp). This is part of the general forum guidelines (and normal netiquette)

Other than that, great topic!


Good catch and sorry for having overlooked the quoting/re-quoting. My bad. I've edited the "flagrant" post and trimmed it down to relevant size.

Kurt

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kamstutz
Offline kamstutz  
#12 Posted : 04 December 2018 21:32:57(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post

Hi Kurt
Indeed, I was referring to a 320S . My mistake (and aging brains...)
Cheers

Too bad - I was hoping to learn that you "kitbashed" an entirely new lighted version of the #322. Wink

Offline White Buffalo  
#13 Posted : 05 December 2018 14:40:45(UTC)
White Buffalo

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC)
Posts: 309
Location: South Dakota
Great video Kurt, nice collection of Güterwagen for that Crok.......Love
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2018, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.498 seconds.