CS3 update 1.3.2(1) brings with it the comment ...

Synchronization Article address for mfx articles
- If the address of mfx articles is changed, it will now be synchronized with the device (if possible).

While I can belabor the continued lack of awareness of the 8port=8Addr mode of the m83.2/m84.2 , this does show some continued development for the articles.

What this is alluding to is, that if you edit the m8x.2 itme with a CS3 and alter the address on the main "Info" screen - then it automatically updates the m8* unit as well (without any indication to the user). This is attempted instantly when you change the address , not when you press OK to exit the configuration edit screen.

HOWEVER. the "(if possible)" is just a the cop-out to cover for the situation that the unit might be disconnected at the time or even that the CS3 might be in stop mode.

So - to Marklin product management ...
Please sort yourself out. It is a no-brainer to warn the user that the configuration cannot be done when the CS3 is in stop mode. And, with mfx's readback capability, only a small step to be able to confirm and indicate to the user that the configuration change has not been successful.

Edited by user 31 December 2017 09:18:06(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

The context of my rant last year was in relation to the main (white) setup of a 60832/60842 where the address is set
i.e. no need to access the blue configuration screen for a simple address change

I will put money on the fact that (prior to 1.3.3) no one reading this actually appreciates that changing the address on the white setup screen causes BOTH the CS3s icon addresses to change AND the 60832/60842 itself.

Prompted by this wakeup, I have checked the 1.3.3 handling of the situation and am pleased to see that a message is now posted if the CS3 is in the STOP state. Well done

I have no idea what they are trying to indicate with such a statement

I consider the 60821 a waste of time and resource.

There are plenty of other solutions to driving a tortoise motor. I would choose one that allowed a 60832(or 60842) to control 8 motors rather than just 4.

the 60831 is a m83 decoder, the 60841 is a m84 decoder. Both are no longer produced. Perhaps some dealer still have them in stock. The 60832 is an advanced m83 decoder, the 60842 an advanced m84 decoder as well. Both understand now the mfx format too and got the new colour black. All of them still understand the MM and DCC format, of course.

What do you think about a short view into the manuals of these decoders?

https://static.maerklin....0cd3f3481a1504787016.pdf

https://static.maerklin....3955085ba1533288721.pdf7

Hello Jukka,

here is an article from the Märklin Magazine (MM) 01/2014 about the m83 grey

https://www.maerklin.de/...2_Digital_MM_2014_01.pdf

See there a list with pictures and wiring plans inside for the application of an m83.


In my last post #155 I wrote about the differences of the grey and black decoders.


In the MM 04/2014 is an article about the m84. See the functions of the m84 in this article - although in German - in little graphics.

https://www.maerklin.de/...5_Digital_MM_2014_04.pdf


On page 23 of MM 04/2014 Mr. Frank Mayer wrote about the difference of a m83 to a m84. This technical details I cannot translate so easy and quickly. So I found a blog from Ajckids

https://ajckids.com/blog...in-k83-and-k84-decoders/

which shall describe the differences in English.

To all English native speakers. Please explain, if this blog describes understandable the differences or not? For my understanding the blog describes more the m83 than the m84 than their differences.



Anyway, if you are interested in the complete series about the new decoders m83/m84, you find these articles her in the hompage of Märklin:

https://www.maerklin.de/...men-specials-und-serien/

Titel: The new digital decoder m83 (includes also the m84)

"Der neue Digitaldecoder m83

Der neue Digital-Decoder m83 (MM 06/2013 bis 04/2014)"

The series are only in German although the MM is available in English. I asked Märklin to publish these articles in English as a PDF file as well. But they are refusing because of copyrigth problems. For myself not acceptable, but...

Best regards

TEEWolf

P.S.:
While I was writing this post your post #156 occured. Yes you can put them all together in a chain. The MM is writing this too.

Hello,

I am trying to connect a Hobby light 74391 and an older style M84 (60841) using a CS3. I understand the default brightness of the LEDs on the signal as set in the old M84 might be zero, as I can’t get the signal to light up, though the M84 connections operates properly. Can someone please tell me how I can connect the M84 to the programming track so I can edit the brightness setting?

Thank you!

Thank you. Unfortunately, my M84 is the older light grey one and there is no slider. Either way, though, once I have it connected to the CS3 via the programming track, where on CS do I go to access CV38, to turn up
The brightness?

As per post #54, the default value for CV/Reg 38 was 0
https://www.marklin-user...s--CS3--m8--2#post442797

Reg #38 may be edited in MM mode
CV #38 may be edited in DCC mode. and MAY be written on the main (POM)

I recommend
- (temporarily) setting the m84.1 to DCC = DIP sw 10 ON
- using a programming track.
This provides for readback confirmation (which cannot be done in MM mode)


MAJOR TIP FOR THE CS3 (limitation observed in Current version @ 2.1.0(2) )

1 ===========================================================
First CREATE and save the base entry record in the CS3 - without doing the DCC programming
Then go back into the edit utility to do the DCC programming as a second step

Trying to BOTH create and Program/Configure in the same session will be ignored without any constructive message from the CS3

2 ===========================================================
The CS3 has a (frustrating) behavior of NOT offering a "single CV" read option.
The expectation is that a configuration file would be selected and all CVs read when that file is loaded

If you are expecting to do a number of similar configurations, I suggest familiarizing yourself with how to define your "just the CVs needed" files and Save for later use.

For the steps below, I presume this is a first use scenario


3 ===========================================================
The Article DCC programing (configuration) tool on the CS3 is "incomplete", in that it assumes an "Installation decoder" which is Marklins way of referring to a single port device, like an under-roadbed turnout decoder or the newer signals with their own decoder.

As such be wary of the tool trying to reset the address as you exit and close.


With the m84 DIP #10 switch set on for DCC and the m84 wired to the CS3 programming track.
* Access a new Accessory . Either
- drag open the accessories pane and click "+"
- from the Header banner select Edit->AddArticle->Signal - then "+"

* At the bottom of the configuration screen
- provide a name
- select DCC
- confirm the address (optional but make it the first port you want)

SAVE AT THIS POINT (by this I mean click the EDIT icon to exit)

* RE access the edit screen and select the item just created

* SELECT THE > button at the bottom right

* Select configuration
- At this point you may wait a short while for a "OK" to show in the cell to the left of the trashcan of the CV1 line.
during this time you should observer the lights on the red/brown of the m84 blink
- The TOP Actual/Target value should now reflect the address read from the m84
this is the m84 ID not the port address which is S88# * 4 -3
- the BOTTON value is rubbish at this point

* SELECT "Load"
- scroll and select "60841_dcc ...."
- OK

At this point you need to WAIT
- observe , at the top left, the "CVs to read" value counts down
- after each decrement , an "OK" will (should) be seen for each line
- for each read you will see a burst of pulses on the m84 unit

* ONCE "Reading CVs ended" is seen
- scroll down to CV 38 HobbySignal Hellikeit

* Tap the field in the Actual/Target column twice
- once to show the editable field
- once to bring up the keyboard
- DO NOT use the +/- buttons
(If you do use the +/- then a programming attempt is immediately initiated and you will have to wait 10 times to get to 10)

* In the keyboard Set the value to 10 (Valid Hobby brightness range is 0-10)
- Save with the "Check/Tick" button
At this point you may observe
- the Bit display dots reconfigure
- and again the m84 lights will blink
- an OK should be seen to the right.

* Select Close and exit The DCC programing pane

As mentioned, the CS3 is stunted to referring to an "installation" decoder.
So as you backout/close you will see an attempt to reset the PORT address to a raw value of the decode rather than allowing for the m84 to be a 4 port device in which case the PORT ID = "X * 4 - 3"

* Close and Test

Good day

I am trying to operate an old 1 gauge turnout (Marklin 5962) for a Christmas layout that I am building and need some help. I would like to automate the layout using the memory on my CS2. I have tried the following:

1. Operating the turnout motor using a K83 decoder. I increased the switching time to 600ms in the CS2 without any noticeable improvement.

2. Operating the turnout motor using a M83.1 decoder. I tried increasing the “Period” setting to 20 but that made no difference.

In both cases there is a slight hum when the turnout should be operating and on a very intermittent basis the turnout will throw. I believe that the problem is that the voltage from these decoders is insufficient to throw the turnout. To prove this I built a rectifier for my Marklin 16v analog transformer and was able to easily throw the turnout even with a small 470uF smoothing capacitor (22volt DC).

I am now considering building a capacitive discharge unit using a DC supply from the Marklin transformer. I would trigger the CDU from my M83.1.

Before I go down this route I was wondering whether I can use an M84.1 to produce a pulse to change the turnout. I would use the 22 volt DC supply from the Marklin transformer.

Any advice, ideas and comments will be much appreciated.

Mike

I use motor control 60821 and it works nice.
It shut the power off when the turnout motor did changed gear tongue.

Edited by user 31 January 2021 11:10:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I would not do this.
It is possible - However I think you are only complicating things. The unit does need the 60821 to be able to provide both +V and a -V but as you have realised, additional work(wiring) is needed as the unit is expecting 3 wires for Ground/Reference , +V and -V

I did try this once with a view to seeing if the speed could be varied , however the effective variation (before it would not work at all) was very narrow.
Compounded with the micromanagement of the two ports of a port pair , where the max duration was limited to about 5 seconds
it just was not worth the effort.

And while the motor does have end cutoffs, to prevent continuous current draw (e.g. compare with a Tortoise Motor)
A separate powersuply should still be considered a requirement


The most straight forward solution is to use a k84/m84 and a couple of diodes with a 16V AC transformer.

If you think that (buying a separate m84) is overkill, then get a 12V latching relay and use a m83 port pair
(24V relay if using a k84)
Again with a 16V AC Transformer and diodes

Lowest on the list is to use a non-latching DPDT relay solution.
- An advantage here is that it only needs a single m83 port (rather than a port pair)
Thus allowing for control of 8 devices (per m83)
- A disadvantage is that all mechanisms return to the default state when power is removed from the m83 (relays drop)

The unit is actually a Hubner product. And while Marklin bought out Hubner the item was always designed to work with a standard 16VAC transformer and a SPDT (of some kind) as per the manual


I do recall that the unit had diodes internally -
Personally I would continue to use them , as I believe the power should be delivered correctly rather than assume there is protection


as per the diagram the 7072 is a SPDT switch

.
Not exactly, the k83 only pulses (as does the m83 out of the box).

While an m83 can be micromanaged and configured it also means constant power draw - why bother?!
Just use a single latching relay with its set and reset coils

Noting, that while the k83/m83 are designed to drive solenoid type devices, current latching relays are very efficient and you require back EMF diodes across each coil (as per standard circuit design with a relay - also noting that relay devices are available with integrated diodes)

I really think you are over thinking this.

In basic analogue operation the unit is designed for use with a SPDT switch and a 16VAC transformer.

Sure the 7072 or 2 x SPDT switches can be made to work
(as long as you are prepared to hold down the buttons on the 7072 for the duration of the motor movement. )
The units have an end cutoff , so leaving power switch (one way or the other) is not a problem and there is no need for a centre-OFF

If you still needed a representation of how to wire the unit with a m83 and 60821 with its 2 wire output
you might like to look at a LDT suggestion.
https://www.ldt-infocent...sbeispiele/page_1415.pdf
Noting that because of the internal diodes, the (+) and (-) are joined