 Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
|
|
|
 13 users liked this useful post by river6109
|
PMPeter, Roland, GlennM, Minok, PJMärklin, michelvr, Crazy Harry, Brakeman, GLI, Alsterstreek, cookee_nz, xxup, kimballthurlow
|
|
|
 Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,404
|
That looks very good. I’m thinking of changing all my old Marklin catenary to sommerfeldt SNCB stuff. As the finer pantographs catch the old style bolts. An it looks better to  |
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
|
1 user liked this useful post by danmarklinman
|
|
|
|
 Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997
|
I think they look too heavy.
A lot of work there! |
|
1 user liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
|
|
|
|
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC) Posts: 426 Location: Worcestershire, UK
|
I'm in the process of converting Sommerfeldt 308 and 320 to take Viessmann registration arms and thus take Viessmann contact wires. I hate the messy soldering that inevitably comes with Sommerfeldt wires. I have to use Sommerfeld for the Swiss section of my layout because Viessmann do not make SBB masts and portal frameworks. |
Robert
Era III - IV
2 x Central Station 2 v.2 (60214 + 60215)
Hardware versions 3.6 / 4.33
Software version 4.2.1 (0) |
1 user liked this useful post by Robert Davies
|
|
|
|
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
|
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz  I think they look too heavy.
A lot of work there! Dale you're right but the reason I've chosen the thicker wire (0.7mm) is using the pantograph as a power supply the wire 0.3mm didn't have the strength to use the overhead system as a power supply. John Edited by user 11 July 2018 10:16:18(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified |
|
1 user liked this useful post by river6109
|
|
|
|
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
|
Originally Posted by: Robert Davies I'm in the process of converting Sommerfeldt 308 and 320 to take Viessmann registration arms and thus take Viessmann contact wires. I hate the messy soldering that inevitably comes with Sommerfeldt wires. I have to use Sommerfeld for the Swiss section of my layout because Viessmann do not make SBB masts and portal frameworks. I don't use Sommerfeldt ready made overhead wires I just buy the wires (520mm x 0.7mm) and do all the soldering myself, it is an enormous task but as you get used to it and find ways of making things easier it becomes an enjoyment. John |
|
3 users liked this useful post by river6109
|
|
|
|
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,319 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
|
It does look a bit chunky, given that you are using thicker wires and doubling up on some places to add mechanical rigidity in the cross span support wiring, etc. But as you mentioned, you need reliable power transfer so providing something less-movable for the pantographs to press against is certainly one way of addressing that power pickup issue. The benefit of the soldered overheads is there should be no transitions that could catch a pantograph in passing and nothing to pop loose of arms, etc. |
|
1 user liked this useful post by Minok
|
|
|
|
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,404
|
Originally Posted by: Robert Davies I'm in the process of converting Sommerfeldt 308 and 320 to take Viessmann registration arms and thus take Viessmann contact wires. I hate the messy soldering that inevitably comes with Sommerfeldt wires. I have to use Sommerfeld for the Swiss section of my layout because Viessmann do not make SBB masts and portal frameworks. I was thinking of doing the same? Only sommerfeld SNCB poles ect and then viessmann wires and supports. |
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
|
1 user liked this useful post by danmarklinman
|
|
|
|
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
|
Originally Posted by: Minok It does look a bit chunky, given that you are using thicker wires and doubling up on some places to add mechanical rigidity in the cross span support wiring, etc. But as you mentioned, you need reliable power transfer so providing something less-movable for the pantographs to press against is certainly one way of addressing that power pickup issue. The benefit of the soldered overheads is there should be no transitions that could catch a pantograph in passing and nothing to pop loose of arms, etc. Not quite, it has to be a 100% clean soldering job (contact wires) as I solder all my wires and construct the overhead system, in a stretch of 500mm there are 5 vertical wires to be soldered, my new method is these vertical wires I bend at both ends to give the overhead more strength and stops breaking in case of an interference from humans. as the wires are 520mm long every end has to be soldered onto the next wire and so on, the same goes for the top wire but has no function as far the running characteristics is concerned, therefore the contact wire has to be absolutely smooth on the bottom surface to avoid any pantograph to catch on it. this is why I clean all the soldering joints after with a Dremel drill accessory tool,. another crucial point is to have the wire in the right position going from left to right, its not a problem with German pantographs wipers as they are wider then SBB or Austrian wipers and than you have locos which are wobbling from one side to another (I've fixed this by he tightening the housing and bogies (less play), Over years one learns from the mistakes made in the past and it is now enjoyable to do such a demanding task. another thing I've found out Sommerfeldt has a 0.5mm wire (previously mentioned a 0.5mm but this should have read 0.3mm) its not copper coated but a grey zinc finish but unfortunately to late as I didn't discover it until recently.. practicality and good looks are not compatible with this type of operation and constructions the whole set up is rigid but at the same time the tension is slightly flexible John |
|
3 users liked this useful post by river6109
|
|
|
|
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,768 Location: Brisbane, Queensland
|
On the topic of Sommerfeldt catenary, I don't understand why the registration arm needs shortening - why not just manufacture it at the correct length? (ref pg 28/29 of the book, steps 1-5 for pro) There seems to be no need for them to be manufactured at the longer length because regardless of the use (long or short arm) the registration arm always needs to be shortened (they just get mounted on opposite sides) Quite annoying when you need to shorten all of the registration arms needlessly. edit: well just finished my first 5 masts with short arms. I must say that the sommerfeldt flux is excellent. Solder flows quickly and effortlessly from the tip right through the join, without needing to feed it solder. Highly recommend its use (and then clean with isopropyl after)  |
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany |
2 users liked this useful post by applor
|
|
|
|
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
|
Eric,
I do cut them where there is an excessive legnth left over but I don't cut everyone them except at the freight and passenger terminal (my current work on the overhead system) whereas the registration arm (right on the boards edges) interferes with clothes one is wearing (catches it), I've only seen a few prototypical examples whereas the registration arm is cut (at curved sections),
I see what you mean (pictures), just make sure the arm is lined up with the top loop in a vertical line.
I may use a slightly different method, I'll drill the hole for the mast and than use the guide to see where the side holder arm should be soldered onto the registration arm.
John |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,768 Location: Brisbane, Queensland
|
Originally Posted by: river6109 Eric,
I see what you mean (pictures), just make sure the arm is lined up with the top loop in a vertical line.
John Hi John, The arm is not meant to line up with the top loop, it is meant to be either side by 6mm which gives you the long or short arm, resulting in a zig-zag that reduces pantograph wear - you should know this! The above picture is my short arms, so they are all 6mm to the inside of the top loop. |
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany |
1 user liked this useful post by applor
|
|
|
|
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997
|
I think it is so that they only have to make one item. They probably had too many customers needing to return short ones for longer ones, when they used to make long and short versions.
It also allows some flexibility in pole placement. IMHO |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
|
Originally Posted by: applor Originally Posted by: river6109 Eric,
I see what you mean (pictures), just make sure the arm is lined up with the top loop in a vertical line.
John Hi John, The arm is not meant to line up with the top loop, it is meant to be either side by 6mm which gives you the long or short arm, resulting in a zig-zag that reduces pantograph wear - you should know this! The above picture is my short arms, so they are all 6mm to the inside of the top loop. Eric, You're right, I was referring to a cross span (which wasn't the query). John |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
|
Hi, Its a never ending job with the vertical supports, got another 252 bits to go. 7 within 2 cross spans x 9 tracks x 4 cross spans. I first solder the upright in the middle between 2 cross spans  |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,768 Location: Brisbane, Queensland
|
Originally Posted by: river6109 Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz I think they look too heavy.
A lot of work there! Dale you're right but the reason I've chosen the thicker wire (0.7mm) is using the pantograph as a power supply the wire 0.3mm didn't have the strength to use the overhead system as a power supply. John Yeah that's a lot of work doing all the vertical supports and I still don't understand why you are not using the ready made wires with the vertical supports already made - they are the same diameter wires! you say you're doing custom 0.7mm wire because the 0.3mm has power problems - but that doesn't make sense because the standard wires are 0.7mm... Even the pro series wires (that I am using) aren't 0.3mm, they are 0.5mm for the contact wire and 0.4mm for the bearer. In fact Sommerfeldt don't even sell 0.3mm wires - The smallest is 0.4mm (for N gauge) |
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany |
1 user liked this useful post by applor
|
|
|
|
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
|
Eric, I'm sure the 088 wire is 0.35mm. using so many of the wires it is much cheaper just to buy the wires on its own, in theory yes it would be quicker to buy them of the shelf but in practice I prefer to do it my self. the soldering spots will eventually be filed down and painted so it will not look like blobs of soldering can be seen.
using just the wire I can solder them together at 1.5m length and it doesen't matter where the mast is located, it also diminishes 2 loops at the end of each wire.
John |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,768 Location: Brisbane, Queensland
|
Originally Posted by: river6109 Eric, I'm sure the 088 wire is 0.35mm. using so many of the wires it is much cheaper just to buy the wires on its own, in theory yes it would be quicker to buy them of the shelf but in practice I prefer to do it my self. the soldering spots will eventually be filed down and painted so it will not look like blobs of soldering can be seen.
using just the wire I can solder them together at 1.5m length and it doesen't matter where the mast is located, it also diminishes 2 loops at the end of each wire.
John Hi John, I looked up item 088 on their website (its not in their catalogue) and yes it is 0.35mm - but it is just a plain straight wire and not an overhead wire, so there would be no reason why you would need to use it in any case. Looks like these straight wires are available in the following diameters: 088 - 0.35mm 089 - 0.4mm 090 - 0.5mm 091 - 0.7mm 092 - 1.0mm It would be far quicker to use the correct part but if you wish to manually construct the overhead wires then that is your choice of course but it offers no advantage and I would think that time could be spent improving your layout in other ways. Just one last comment that especially with how much soldering you are doing, get yourself a pot of the sommerfeldt soldering oil. Truly great product and you wouldn't need to spend time filing down solder blobs because there won't be any. Just to give you an example of the finish you can get using the oil, below is a photo of my first constructed cross span (upper portion) Good luck!  |
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany |
3 users liked this useful post by applor
|
|
|
|
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
|
Eric, this looks very clean and professional
John |
|
1 user liked this useful post by river6109
|
|
|
|
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
