Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline johnmarklin  
#1 Posted : 21 June 2018 21:13:28(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
Good evening fellow enthusiasts.

A friend recently asked me to check out his Marklin 3602 (Photographic Grey) Borsig locomotive. He is unable to program his Ecos controller to control the loco. We tried a manual programming without success and then we tried to get the Ecos unit to search for the loco address but again without success. However when I use it with my CS2 everything works perfectly. Any ideas or thoughts on what we need to do to get the loco functioning with the Ecos.

Also, this loco is fitted with two smoke generators. Am I correct in saying that these generators are not controlled through the decoder?

Looking forward to your responses.

John
Offline DaleSchultz  
#2 Posted : 21 June 2018 22:56:06(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
if it is a 6080 decoder, the address is set using DIP switches, if you post the switch settings we can tell you the address. Can the CS2 not show you the address it is using? Be sure to set the Ecos to use Motorola (old) protocol for that address. (I assume it has such settings as the Intellibox does.)

I doubt that the 6080 decoder could supply enough current for two smoke units and it only has one function (F0) which is probably connected to lights.... unless they also included a relay.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline johnmarklin  
#3 Posted : 22 June 2018 01:08:22(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
Dale,

Thank you for the reply. I forgot to say that the address is set at 53 and even if you programme that in manually on the Ecos it will not run. You make a good point about setting the Ecos to Motorola (old) protocol. I did not think of that. I am not familiar with the Ecos unit and am learning as I proceed.

Unfortunately I will not get an opportunity to try that until I visit my friend which will not be for a while as my friend lives at the other end of the country. Also my friend does not understand modern digital systems which complicates matters.

John
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by johnmarklin
Offline DaleSchultz  
#4 Posted : 22 June 2018 02:36:06(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Originally Posted by: johnmarklin Go to Quoted Post

Unfortunately I will not get an opportunity to try that until I visit my friend which will not be for a while as my friend lives at the other end of the country.
John


wow! all the way on the other side of Ireland! :-)



Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Markus Schild  
#5 Posted : 22 June 2018 06:56:18(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: johnmarklin Go to Quoted Post
Dale,

Thank you for the reply. I forgot to say that the address is set at 53 and even if you programme that in manually on the Ecos it will not run. You make a good point about setting the Ecos to Motorola (old) protocol. I did not think of that. I am not familiar with the Ecos unit and am learning as I proceed.



Hi John,

As described before the loco must be set up manually. At the ECOS the MOTOROLA 1 format is named "MOTOROLA 14". This must be chosen, all other values don't work (DCC, MOTOROLA 27, MOTOROLA 28).

Regards

Markus
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Markus Schild
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 22 June 2018 08:10:42(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,463
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: johnmarklin Go to Quoted Post
However when I use it with my CS2 everything works perfectly. Any ideas or thoughts on what we need
to do to get the loco functioning with the Ecos.
Make sure the red and brown wires are not swapped between ECoS and track. Make sure the MM protocol is activated in the ECoS.

Motorola 14 is the best choice for that loco, but Motorola 27 would also work. And even Motorola 28 should get the loco running.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline johnmarklin  
#7 Posted : 22 June 2018 13:35:11(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
Dale, Tom and Markus,
Thank you for your suggestions. I have the loco set at 53 (dip switch 8 only set to on). It will not function if I create a new loco manually using 53 as the loco number. I have tried to set it up with all Marklin 14, 27,28 without success. If I try to create a new loco using the advanced decoder search set up the controller will not identify the type of decoder and shuts down (powers off).

As I said the problem is that I do not have the Ecos here with me to experiment on it and my friend is not knowledgeable of digital control. I had hoped there might be a simple solution but I think the best option at this point is to get my friend to ship the controller to me and for me to read up on using the Ecos controller.

John
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by johnmarklin
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 23 June 2018 08:40:44(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,463
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: johnmarklin Go to Quoted Post
I had hoped there might be a simple solution [...]
I gave you two simple potential causes of this issue - but there may be others.
If your friend cannot make those checks then maybe find an ECoS locally or have your friend's ECoS shipped to you.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#9 Posted : 24 June 2018 10:47:16(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,871
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: johnmarklin Go to Quoted Post
Dale, Tom and Markus,
Thank you for your suggestions. I have the loco set at 53 (dip switch 8 only set to on). It will not function if I create a new loco manually using 53 as the loco number. I have tried to set it up with all Marklin 14, 27,28 without success. If I try to create a new loco using the advanced decoder search set up the controller will not identify the type of decoder and shuts down (powers off).

As I said the problem is that I do not have the Ecos here with me to experiment on it and my friend is not knowledgeable of digital control. I had hoped there might be a simple solution but I think the best option at this point is to get my friend to ship the controller to me and for me to read up on using the Ecos controller.

John


I might be totally wrong here, but it's something to look out for when programming DIP switches.

Are you sure you are reading the switches the right way up? I once had a problem where the loco would not run on the address I had selected, but eventually found that I was reading the switches upside down. Instead of having only 8 on, I would have had 1 off and all the others on.

It's an easy mistake to make and it can be difficult to spot!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline dominator  
#10 Posted : 24 June 2018 11:49:06(UTC)
dominator

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 1,204
Location: Kerikeri
I read my dip switches upside down when I first got my MS2. I ended up using 2 pairs of glasses to be able to read the small numbers.
Dereck
Northland. NZ REMEMBER 0228 for ä
Offline johnmarklin  
#11 Posted : 24 June 2018 13:04:53(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
Tom,

The cable connections are correct and the Marklin protocol is selected. All other Marklin locos with old and new generation decoders from the collection work perfectly. This one is being troublesome. I have spoken with my friend and suggested that he send the controller to me so I can experiment with it. I think this would be the best course of action for resolving the issue.

Ray and Dominator~, I have double checked the Dip switches and all is fine. The loco will work in analogue and also with my CS2 using the same decoder setting (53). I will resolve it in due course.

Thank you all for your useful suggestions.

Happy railroading,

John
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by johnmarklin
Offline Bart  
#12 Posted : 24 June 2018 14:42:16(UTC)
Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 676
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
if it is a 6080 decoder, the address is set using DIP switches, if you post the switch settings we can tell you the address. Can the CS2 not show you the address it is using? Be sure to set the Ecos to use Motorola (old) protocol for that address. (I assume it has such settings as the Intellibox does.)
I doubt that the 6080 decoder could supply enough current for two smoke units and it only has one function (F0) which is probably connected to lights.... unless they also included a relay.


AFAIK, the 3602 indeed comes equipped with a relay to directly feed the smoke units from red/brown track power.

It may well be that the F0 output (both directions) have been used to switch the relay, and the lights are directly fed by track power through a zener diode,
as in this example (not specific for 3602, and F0 feeding a single smoke generator)

C80.jpg

Regarding the address: the old 6080 dip switches tend to fail over time.
You may want to check the function of each switch, e.g. by testing the loco at address 40 (1-3-5-7 ON) and 80 (2-4-6-8 ON)

Edited by user 25 June 2018 23:35:31(UTC)  | Reason: typo

*Bart
Offline johnmarklin  
#13 Posted : 25 June 2018 00:00:19(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
Bart~,

Thank you for your message. I have changed addresses. They function on the CS2 but not on the Ecos which suggests to me that there is no problem with the DIP switches. There is no evidence of a relay for the smoke generator. The lights are fed from the decoder and can be turned on and off at will. I will experiment on the set up when I get the Ecos shipped to me.

John
Offline river6109  
#14 Posted : 25 June 2018 03:46:30(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,878
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
John, a 6080 decoder has no Aux functions and quite rightly the only function is the light function. the 2 smoke units would be on all the time when wired and can only be wired via ground and middle studs.
what ever you're trying to do the ECoS should be able to be used for this decoder however somewhere your settings are not right. you can't read this decoder via an ECoS., to do so you would waste your time.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline johnmarklin  
#15 Posted : 25 June 2018 10:00:28(UTC)
johnmarklin

Ireland   
Joined: 31/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: Ireland
river6109~,

Thank you for your message,

I acknowledge that there must be something that I am not setting correctly and will have to wait until I get the Ecos before I can explore this issue further.

Unfortunately there are not many model railway enthusiasts in Ireland and fewer still Marklin enthusiasts and probably even less with Ecos controllers so there is no chance for me to borrow one locally to experiment with. It will probably be the autumn before I get my friend's Ecos to work with.

On another matter, do you know what is the maximum continuous current that a 6080 decoder can handle? It has been suggested to me that people are using 6080 decoders on G.1 locomotives with the old Ahlstrom motors. I am asking this because I am considering converting my G.1 5607 to digital because of a problem I have with the reversing unit on this loco.

John

Offline gcanton  
#16 Posted : 29 July 2018 14:28:31(UTC)
gcanton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/06/2004(UTC)
Posts: 71
Location: Hampshire, UK
Hello,

I run various vintage decoders with an ECos and it works most of the time but not all older decoders do not like being fed modern data especially mixed DCC and Marklin digital. I have very old gauge one decoders that will not run in a mixed data environment and a Marklin gauge 1 measuring car which only works correctly on a 6021 with the dip switches configured for the slower data rate.

For the gauge 1 conversion if you are running a CS3 which is dual data then there are 1 1/2 Amp DCC decoders for £20 which should suffice and work much better than an interesting but ancient decoder, a couple of diodes to feed the field coils and all should be well. Make sure the loco is running well or the current consumption can be high with glue for grease. For larger locos a Lokpilot for £55 is better.

I have also had more modern decoders go sulky and refuse to respond to the Ecos (ESU Loksound OEM installed in a Marklin DR91 from a starter set and a Loksound V4.0 installed aftermarket) especially after running for a while and do bizarre things like just run at a slow constant speed but I believe that is due to trying to be AC and DC compatible as well as digital and getting confused. Feeding pure Marklin or DCC data seems to reset them. It is worth having a 6021 or Lokprogrammer that speaks simple clean old fashioned data to check where problems lie, especially if you run older kit in a modern environment. Marklin have sent 4 different data streams to gauge 1 models and so even if you take the primeval first DCC one out there have been a lot of changes for a 1980's decoder to cope with in all the scales, I believe the level of compatibility is surprisingly good but it is not perfect and sometimes its just time to replace the decoder. Or run a controller of the same vintage of course but then you can't use your phone as a handheld, have loco icons or run mixed protocol data. It can be frustrating and it is sometimes worth squirrelling old kit to check where the problem lies, I have a Marklin original gauge 1 DCC central unit and programmer as it is the only way I know off to reprogramme early 1990's Gauge 1 "DCC" decoders.

Graham
Users browsing this topic
Guest (3)
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2025, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.935 seconds.