Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline corsur  
#1 Posted : 30 December 2017 23:43:31(UTC)
corsur

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/12/2017(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Northern Ireland, Knock
Hello I am not new to train layouts and had a 00 scale layout a few years ago, but space meant it had to go. Interest has never gone away though. So here I am trying out z scale for the first time. I've always been fascinated by its small size. Anyway got a Marklin starter set to try it out. And putting it on a NOCH 87060 Z Scale Layout Blumenau board. What I want to know. On the Marklin feeder track under it, is a small capacitor and if you look at photo some sort of heat sink covering something on the wires. Is this important as I want to do away with this straight and solder two wires to a curve. Yes I can get a markiln feeder curve, but not in the radius for this board. Anyway I test run the set with two wires from the controller to track without this capacitor, and what ever that is on the Markiln wire but will this do any harm as the capacitor and whatever is in that heat sink must be there for some reason ?

UserPostedImage

Edited by moderator 08 January 2018 11:42:40(UTC)  | Reason: subject spelling (was 'markiln')

Offline Bigdaddynz  
#2 Posted : 31 December 2017 01:06:52(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Capacitors are normally on feeder tracks for interference suppression reasons, so that your model railroad doesn't interfere with Radio/TV.

I don't know what's in the black heatshrinked part, except it feels like a circuit board with a large square component on it - my Z gauge feeder tracks also have this.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#3 Posted : 31 December 2017 01:09:39(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
The Marklin catalog suggests that the heatshrinked device is for interference suppression.

You could solder wires directly to the rails as long as there's no interference with the neighbour's Radios / TV's / Cellphones!
Offline Wal  
#4 Posted : 31 December 2017 06:36:21(UTC)
Wal

Australia   
Joined: 07/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Sydney
In the world of digital Z scale the recommendation is to remove the capacitor on the feeder track otherwise it can interfere with the digital signal in such a way that nothing works correctly.

Cheers,

Wal
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 31 December 2017 08:46:39(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Wal Go to Quoted Post
In the world of digital Z scale the recommendation is to remove the capacitor on the feeder track otherwise it can interfere with the digital signal in such a way that nothing works correctly.
Capacitors block DC and pass AC. A feeder track with a capacitor designed for DC operation or analogue AC operation (50 or 60 cycles per second) will cause problems with digital operations (about 10000 cycles per second).

But it seems this thread is about analogue DC operation.

You can hide the feeder track under the layout and solder wires from the feeder track rails to the rails of the layout, thus you'd be on the safe side with respect to radio interference suppression (radio, TV, WLAN, mobile phones, ,,,).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline corsur  
#6 Posted : 31 December 2017 21:15:30(UTC)
corsur

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/12/2017(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Northern Ireland, Knock
Thanks guys I did think it was something to do with suppressing. But now I no for sure thanks to you guys.
Offline Richard556  
#7 Posted : 02 January 2018 10:14:35(UTC)
Richard556

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: New Zealand
For what it’s worth I have not bothered with the feeder track on my micro z scale layout and have just connected two wires to the rails at several points without any noticeable interference with anything.

Good hints for smooth operation in my experience is regular track cleaning and using a pulse controller (eg z track snail speed controller) rather than the standard maerklin transformer (assuming you are using analogue DC control). Oh, and avoid uneven track, curved points, and grades like the plague unless absolutely necessary.

A pulse controller and the newer five pole motors make for amazing smooth and low speed running. Richard
Offline ciderglider  
#8 Posted : 07 January 2018 21:39:27(UTC)
ciderglider

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 53
Location: Leicestershire
Originally Posted by: Richard556 Go to Quoted Post
For what it’s worth I have not bothered with the feeder track on my micro z scale layout and have just connected two wires to the rails at several points without any noticeable interference with anything.

Good hints for smooth operation in my experience is regular track cleaning and using a pulse controller (eg z track snail speed controller) rather than the standard maerklin transformer (assuming you are using analogue DC control). Oh, and avoid uneven track, curved points, and grades like the plague unless absolutely necessary.

A pulse controller and the newer five pole motors make for amazing smooth and low speed running. Richard


I think I have read that pulse controllers can damage the small Z gauge motors. Is there any truth in this?

Thanks for the tip about curved points.
Offline Richard556  
#9 Posted : 08 January 2018 11:00:06(UTC)
Richard556

New Zealand   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: New Zealand
I think as a general comment pulse controllers can hurt certain motors but the snail pulse controller I referred to in my post is specifically designed for z gauge motors including Märklin, and I have had no trouble running a variety of Märklin z gauge locos with it, including three and five pole motors ( including a veteran 8800) as well as newer can motors (including a new Märklin BR 64 and AZL US diesels). The pulse controller gives great low speed control as well as simulated acceleration/braking delay.

Richard
Offline ciderglider  
#10 Posted : 08 January 2018 21:36:54(UTC)
ciderglider

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 53
Location: Leicestershire
Originally Posted by: Richard556 Go to Quoted Post
I think as a general comment pulse controllers can hurt certain motors but the snail pulse controller I referred to in my post is specifically designed for z gauge motors including Märklin, and I have had no trouble running a variety of Märklin z gauge locos with it, including three and five pole motors ( including a veteran 8800) as well as newer can motors (including a new Märklin BR 64 and AZL US diesels). The pulse controller gives great low speed control as well as simulated acceleration/braking delay.

Richard

Thanks for bringing the snail pulse controller to my attention. I will have to investigate some more.

If memory serves, pulse controllers for other gauges were available back in the 1970s, so it's disappointing that Marklin have never seen fit to offer one for Z.

Offline Purellum  
#11 Posted : 01 March 2018 23:36:54(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: ciderglider Go to Quoted Post


I think I have read that pulse controllers can damage the small Z gauge motors. Is there any truth in this?


I think; but I don't know, that the problem with pulse controllers ( I've read it somewhere too ) is that some people use a DC power supply that gives out a higher voltage than the motors are made for, and the regulate the speed of the locos with the pulses.

If this is the case, then it's the higher voltage and not the pulses that damages the motors.

Is it by the way possible to solder on the z scale tracks / what material are they made of?

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline Bill Dickson  
#12 Posted : 12 March 2018 12:35:32(UTC)
Bill Dickson

United Kingdom   
Joined: 28/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 26
I don't know the material that Marklin's rails are made from but I have soldered the supply wires into the rail webs using electricians' multicore solder. This is to hide then from the viewing position so, one joint is on the outside of the track whilst the other joint is on the wheel flange side.
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#13 Posted : 20 March 2018 22:10:19(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 550
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Richard556 Go to Quoted Post
... the snail pulse controller I referred to in my post is specifically designed for z gauge motors including Märklin... The pulse controller gives great low speed control as well as simulated acceleration/braking delay.

Richard


Do you know if the Snail Controller has feedback (i.e. do things speed up going downhill, slow down going uphill)?

I just bought an inexpensive PWM controller from CPC here in the UK and modified it to run at 60Hz rather than the standard 1.2kHz and I'm amazed how slowly I can get things to run. However, I have noticed the control isn't terribly smooth; As I increase the control the speed increases gradually at first and then will suddenly "Jump" to a much faster level. Conversely, slowing down the speed will suddenly change from "moderate" to "slow". I think this coincides with when the movement overcomes static friction (and presumably the point at which regular DC control would get things moving/the loco would stall). When accelerating a train this sudden change in speed isn't very realistic and I think feedback is the only way it could be eliminated/alleviated.

Cheers


Chris
Offline Mark5  
#14 Posted : 24 March 2023 00:35:36(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Bump back up from 2018,
Just experimented with the snail controller and can confirm to Chris that there is no kind of load compensation that you have in Digital with this kind of Analog Controller, as I would have expected. I only plan to run mine without grades anyway. There does seem to be a very brief acceleration delay, depending on how you use the settings, (if there is braking delay, its not apparent with the way I have been using it) but takes getting used to as I feel spoiled with current 1:87 digital features. The Snail Controller does "jump" with speed changes as well, (no fine speed or smooth change of speed control.) so not sure its much different than other PWM controllers. That said it does allow you to go quite slow even with the 3 pole motor. Still not sure of any features to change Hz, or when overload kicks in and easily shuts it down (happens often so far). And sadly, concerning use of the momentary pulse switch, the vendor provides no documentation, no PDFs and yet charges $65 in shipping even just going north of the 49th. (US to Canada). So rather disappointed from the documentation POV. Also seems the Vendor has a lot of projects going so not very responsive to queries (sometimes none at all). I can't understand why you would not want to have a simple sheet of paper with one's product, or at minimum clear direction to a PDF, but alas that is what it is.

Correct me if I have misrepresented the controller in anyway.

If I did it over, I would get another controller from an established vendor first and then if you feel necessary to play with slow control, then consider the caveat of costs and potential irregular functionality and take a gamble to try a Snail. After using it for a while further I may change or update my response.

Originally Posted by: Poor Skeleton Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Richard556 Go to Quoted Post
... the snail pulse controller I referred to in my post is specifically designed for z gauge motors including Märklin... The pulse controller gives great low speed control as well as simulated acceleration/braking delay.


Do you know if the Snail Controller has feedback (i.e. do things speed up going downhill, slow down going uphill)?

I just bought an inexpensive PWM controller from CPC here in the UK and modified it to run at 60Hz rather than the standard 1.2kHz and I'm amazed how slowly I can get things to run. However, I have noticed the control isn't terribly smooth; As I increase the control the speed increases gradually at first and then will suddenly "Jump" to a much faster level. Conversely, slowing down the speed will suddenly change from "moderate" to "slow". I think this coincides with when the movement overcomes static friction (and presumably the point at which regular DC control would get things moving/the loco would stall). When accelerating a train this sudden change in speed isn't very realistic and I think feedback is the only way it could be eliminated/alleviated.


Chris
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline Toosmall  
#15 Posted : 24 March 2023 09:36:12(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 608
Location: Sydney
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Is it by the way possible to solder on the z scale tracks / what material are they made of?

Per.

Cool


Nickel, so you can silver solder it at 800°C without problems.
https://www.marklin-user...8-Continuous-Welded-Rail


Users browsing this topic
Similar Topics
Marklin feeder tracks (Small scale)
by Nrwatson 25/11/2019 22:37:46(UTC)
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.095 seconds.