Hi guys

I must change the values of certains cv for all decoders for all locos in CS2.

Maximum and minimum speed, because the speed calibrations of locos is crazy. I use Itrain and the calibration is a disaster.

The last landing does not inform the maximal speed, and the gradual scale(ladder) of speeds..i'd rather say

For example, the landing 126 for b29 (a belgian steam loco..not the airplane) informs a 27 km / hour speed. The maximum speed is 100 km/h. The maximun speed of this loco : 30 km/h. I want 100

Another example is série 57 sncb , the landing 126 for this loco informs 200 km/h, maximum speed is 120 km/h. This loco is crazy when she runs at maximun spped

I have never made changes in the values of the decoders of my locos...but I got a problem with the decoders : they are not well configurated. That what Is I think. I am not a specialist.

So what can I do for the changes of values in cs2?

I searched on you tube for a tutorial in video ? nothing

Thank you for your reply

Thewolf

Hi!
I don't make videos.
The GUI for changing CVs in the CS2 is not really user-friendly and somewhat counter-intuitive, but it works.
And if you tell us how far you get and what you do not understand, someone here will answer your questions.

Hi Teewolf,

Søren who is also a member here has made a few videos.

Check his very informative website here: http://railway.zone/post...-and-decoder-programming

Regarding your problems my suggestion is:

1. Identify what decoder is fitted in the locos
2. Get hold of the manual
3. Put the loco on the programming track
4. Reset the decoder by writing value 8 in CV8
5. Perform a test drive and verify max speed
6. Try changing CV value for max speed and check if it made a difference?

Sometimes you can have issues with max speed if you have configured the motor control reference voltage (CV 53) seperately, so best to try a reset first and then test drive the loco.

Brgds Lasse

Danlake and Goofy

Thank you a lot both

Really very appreciated

But it is going to need that I am very careful ...I am not an expert in these things... I have never made it

Give me a balance sheet of company and I am going to explain what is wrong...but a Marklin loco decoder and the value of Cv, ....It is the language which comes from the space

Thewolf

Ok Tom..but I am sorry ,,,you don't explain how to do

By reading your answers, I do not move forward...

At least with Goofy and Danlake I move forward

When you wrote this : '' And if you tell us how far you get and what you do not understand, someone here will answer your questions.''...ok but how to do for reading what the cs2 informs like values of cv ?? You don't explain

I had said that I believed that ''Itrain''' could find me the solution to my problem.

I had forgotten the advantage that got Itrain to change the cv of the decoders of locos.

Decoder Programming
Every decoder has a set of configuration variables (for DCC) or parameters (for Selectrix)
that define its behavior. One simple example is the address of the decoder, but there are
also more difficult settings. A lot of tools are available, sometimes from the supplier of the
decoder itself, to assist you in configuring your decoder exactly as you would like.
This feature in iTrain is not here to replace all other tools. It is meant as a basic
programming tool for the common settings available in most DCC and SX2 decoders20
without having to disconnect the interface in iTrain. This can be very helpful when you
want to program the decoders on the main layout (PoM)21 instead of on a service track.
Configuration
The first step in programming a decoder is specifying the configuration. It is possible to
specify the configuration for a locomotive, a wagon or an accessory. In this example the
locomotive will be used as this is the most common target for programming decoders.
In the properties of the locomotive there is a tab ‘Configuration’ with a table. In this table

possible CV or parameter numbers are available. You have to define which numbers are
used to store a value in the decoder (by checking it) and what the type of the value is (by
double clicking it and selecting it from a list). Additionally you can enter a description in
your own words. It is not necessary to fill in the column ‘Value’ at this time, but if you know
the value already it is recommended entering it directly so you need no other
administration for that anymore.
Values are always stored internally as decimal values, but depending on the type they will
be displayed in another format if that makes it easier to interpret them (for example the
vendor is translated into a name). You can always use the tooltip to see it as a decimal,
binary, or hexadecimal value or an ascii character. Entering a value in the column is by
default always a decimal value, unless you prefix the value with a ‘b’ for a bitmask,
‘h’,‘x’,’#’ or ‘$’ for hex or a quote for a character (so ‘A’ is the same as 65).
It is a lot of work to define the configuration for every locomotive
again. By using the popup menu of the table you can make that
more comfortable by copying & pasting definitions of other
locomotives. Select the rows you want to copy and paste them in
another configuration with the same numbers. There are also a
few basic templates for the most common variables/parameters
for DCC and SX2 to get you started quickly.22
Programming tool23
If you have defined a configuration for a locomotive, wagon or
accessory and iTrain supports programming with your interface (command station or
programming hardware), you can actually read/write values via the programming tool in
iTrain. This tool can be found in the menu ‘View’ -> ‘Decoder Programming’. There you
have to select the type of object you want to program via a submenu. We will explain the
‘Locomotive’, but programming the other objects works in a similar way.


It allows you to see that it is possible to work with Itrain for the necessary change of the values of the decoder for a perfect calibration of speeds

I quickly read and ...my god ... . that it looks complicated.... It is complicated...I do not understand the Chinese

Thewolf

Now you start problem by avoid to use CV adress present by of Märklin and it doesn´t matter what manefacture do present CV adress.
The good point is to follow CV adresses by adjust them.

Tom,

''OK, maybe I should shut up.''

I undoubtedly badly expressed myself, Don't forget : english is not my native language.
What I meant to say is : you do not explain to make enough how.

I consider you as a specialist but sometimes your explanations are not enough retailed and I have the impression to be blocked

''It looks as if iTrain makes CV programming even more complicated than the CS2 does.
Do you have an MS2? The CV programming screens on the MS2 are much simpler with less distraction and less confusion''

About Itrain, I am verifying the whole . But I am certain that with the support of the forum Itrain and Xander the creator, it will not be difficult to make

No MS2 for me. It would be can be a solution to buy a MS2 if it is still possible to do it and not too expensive. I like this advice. Maybe i wrote

Tom

I understand that the title which I used is misleading, especially if I speak about Itrain.


Is the concept of CV programming clear? My reply is no

Do you want to use the CS2 directly or via iTrain? My reply is :

Use CS2 worries me

Use Itrain worries me too

Between both solutions really I don't know

There is also a solution of the MS2, which according to what you said would be better...I made a search on EBay ... too expensive

Thewolf

Hi Thewolf,

Let us know a few loco (article numbers) of what you would like to adjust the basic settings on, then we can try and assist you.

Iam pretty sure Itain will not be able to program most Marklin decoders, only those that have built in DCC compatibility, which is a minority.

So pretty sure you are better of learning and using the CS2 for this.

Brgds Lasse

Hi TeeWolf,

As all your locomotives are Mfx there should be no need to use CV for changing the settings like min, max speed etc.

Have a look at English manual page 48.

Try first to press the button reset while the loco is on the programming track?

Then noted down what the new setting for max delay is (means max speed).

Then try and change the this setting by e.g. entering value 120 and see if that made it slower. Play around till you find the value you want for max speed.

Below link to an English manual

https://www.rocousa.com/MARKLIN/60215_cs_gb.pdf

Brgds Lasse

Hi everyone

When Danlake wrote :

''Iam pretty sure Itain will not be able to program most Marklin decoders, only those that have built in DCC compatibility, which is a minority.

So pretty sure you are better of learning and using the CS2 for this.'' he is right

This morning on the forum Itrain I received important information.

About the decoder programming by Itrain. Itrain allows only DCC decoders not MFX marklin

Please see :

Re: Decoder programming
Report this post Quote
Post by xanderb » Today, 05:20

Yes, but it only works for DCC and not for MFX locs, as this is proprietary for Märklin and not open.

Re: Decoder programming
Report this post Quote
Post by HCCm » 32 minutes ago

No.
Marklin is changing to build in DCC in their decoders, but this will happen slowly is my experience from the past.
When I had an IB, the manufacturer of that device publised procedures for the IB how to programme M. decoders. M never did.

Re: Decoder programming
Report this post Quote
Post by xanderb » 31 minutes ago

MFX is a proprietary protocol for which their is no official documentation (the same for Motorola). Programming MFX-decoders is only possible with Märklin devices. DCC is from Lenz, is completely open, standardised and open. It can be used by anyone.

Yes, I was born and raised with Märklin, but as a hardware and/or software developer it is much easier to adopt DCC. That is why most command stations have DCC and only some have MFX. But the 2-rail part of Märklin called Trix also uses DCC and so Märklin will support both in new decoders so they can be used in both, but that is only recently.
Xander Berkhout (10)
Developer of iTrain


To see you later

Thewolf

Have you actually tried clicking/tapping on the graph icon !!! ?

I did it

A graplic appears with a choice of options ( linear, etc,,,)

Also touches + and - with 34 to the left and 175 to the right I think

I don't know what are the good values to register

Thewolf

Hi guys
Hi Danlake

Before starting the speed calibration, I would like to understand the meaning of the values recorded in the acceleration and braking delay.

In both cases, what does the smallest number mean? the biggest?

What is the impact on the loco? The more I go down, the more ...?

The more I increase, the more ... ??

Sorry to ask these questions, but I want to understand

Thank you for your replies

Thewolf

Thank you Brgds

I suppose that Brgds is your little name , no ? And Lasse your name of family ?

And all these parameters will vary depending on whether the loco is a steam, an electric or a diesel.

What fun and time to spend for a retiree...and most of all ... peace for my wife

Thank you again Brgds

Thewolf

Sorry..I did not know

As we say in my native country ..hé meeerrrde me suis gourré

Thewolf

Hi TheWolf,

When you write speed calibration I assume you mean what you did in the Itrain software?

And this is where you got the corresponding speed for various speed step?

To be able to assist. Are you happy now with the configuration you did with your CS and now the issue is how to get a good speed profiling in Itrain?

A normal speed profiling should give something like an exponential graph - I.e. as the loco builds up speed it accelerate faster and faster.

When configuring my loco I always do max speed based on a stop watch and a circuit around my layout (actual track length you can get from the track planning softwares). When I am happy with the performance of the loco just running with CS I then start the speed profiling in my PC software. I normally get within +/-5 km/h between my stopwatch and the PC software.

Brgds Lasse

Hi TheWolf,

The speedometer on CS2 has no relation to the actual max speed.

This is only for visual representation and you can enter what ever value you would like. Try writing 10 km/t and you will find the loco will still go to same max speed as before.

Here is what you need to do:

1. Configure your max, min, acceleration and braking delay using the CS2 menu
2. Once happy with how the loco feels, then try and measure a straight distance on the layout and time it when the loco travel full speed.
3. Loco speed is = distance divided by time x 87
4. Enter this max speed for the speedometer.
5. Open Itrain and then to the speed profiling/calibration.

Once you have done the speed profiling in Itrain you may get a more accurate calculation for max speed. If it differs a lot from your initial calculation then change the speedometer, but don’t change any CV values.

Hope this helps and best of luck

Brgds Lasse

good ... good ... time ...Lasse .... you're going to laugh ... my wife and I have no watch ... since ... my god ,, I do not know ... it'll be difficult to do this job with computer time or the grandfather clock ... or digital kitchen clocks

I think I will have to work with Itrain ... by lowering the CV 5 values until I reach the max speed I want

I would like to leave the values CV 3 and 4 as they are ... and reduce the minimum speed to 10 (CV2) a bit ... and not to touch it again if it works

What do you think ?

As for the incorrect form in the last steps of the curve, I do not know what to do. Is it so important?

Thewolf

Hi TheWolf,

Iam not to familiar with Itrain and had to download the latest English version.

Agree that that first few graphs does not like optimal.

First off I think your measured distance is too short (only 22cm)?

I would recommend at min 1m but preferable around 2m. Any tiny inaccuracy in when the feedback gets activated and report to PC software or any small motor performance issue will of course be magnified 10 times when using a very short measurement distance.

Secondly Iam not sure I understand fully the concept of the red and green graph line. Is one line the theoretical values Itrain calculated before you started the speed profiling? And the other line represent the actual represent?

Also try and maximise your window, that should make the graph much more wider and smoother (in the manual the windows are much bigger and the graphs looks more normal than a very steep curve in your print screenshot).

I noticed you also put max speed 255 in Itrain in the calibration window. 255 is a numerical CV value and has nothing to do with the actual speed. You may have a large jump towards the end as you are trying to do a speed calibration on a number the loco can’t drive?

Once you have the actual max speed, as calculated by Itrain, then enter the value and try and do a new speed calibration.

In this thread you can see a photo of a typical speed profiling curve with Traincontroller.

http://modelersforum.com...rs/abendstern-nebenbahn/

Brgds Lasse

PS: Any mobile phones, even old Nokia has a stop watch

Lasse

I am pleased to provide you with some clarifications

22 cm is not the measured distance but the length of the loco

The calibration of the speed with Itrain is calculated over a distance determined by two points of contact ... in my case over a distance of 81 cm determined by C30 of one edge and C31 of the other

Here :





I add that according to the forum Itrain the length of the portion for the calculation of the calibration has no impact

Here :

This is an example of a member of the forum :

Length between contacts: 14.9 cm
See the curve




I understand that entering 255 in the maximum speed box may suggest that it is the speed of the CV that I indicated ... but it is an example ... in the second test I indicated maximum speed 150

The red and green lines represent the forward and reverse curves. With Itrain we have the choice, either a direction of travel, forward or two directions forward and backward for the calculation of the speed calibration

For the shape of the curve and compared to TrainController it seems to me that we must not forget that they are two different software

Moreover the curve of the example (14.9 cm) is not better I think

I will ask the designer of Itrain if the curve of my loco tested is correct

To finish I must think about how I see the maximum speeds of locos on my layout.

Let me explain: for example the steamer BR 95 00

According to wikipedia this loco had a maximum speed of 65 km / h

On my layout at 65 km / h it will give the impression of not driving

To think about and get away with other members...or better: do some tests

Have a nice day

Thewolf

Edited by user 19 January 2018 00:44:31(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hi TheWolf,

Thanks for clarifying regarding Itrain and speed calibration.

The curve included in your last post looks perfectly normally to me?

Regarding prototypical speed. I also try and keep my loco at the protypical scale speed. However for slow mowing streamers and diesel shunters I normal add a bit extra (10-20 km/t).

Brgds Lasse

The note about change of the values of CV adress in the CS2.