MFX Decoder Amnesia on 26557 TEE RE 4/4I - Diagnostic Help Appreciated Share  Email this topic  LinkBack Topic URL  Retweet this Topic  Share Topic on Google+  Like this Topic  Share on Facebook  Digg this Topic  Reddit this Topic  Share on Tumblr Options  Watch this topic  Print this topic View » Normal Threaded

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5HorizonsRR		#1 Posted : 27 August 2017 01:37:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		Hi everyone, I'm working on the second digital troublemaker on my project bench, and needed a bit of help as forum searching didn't yield anything too promising. Problem is as follows: I have the 36557 TEE Re 4/4I set, and the factory decoder will not register on my ECOS. It was working the other week, and for some reason just stopped reading. I've tested the locomotive in analogue on a test track, and it runs flawlessly analogue so that isn't the problem. Also, everything else is running well via the ecos so thats not the issue either. So, back to the decoder it simply doesn't seem to respond to input. MFX does not auto-register at all. (which it did a week ago). Entering the factory address doesn't seem to do anything. If I place it on the programming track and hit the find address feature, it does pop up in the ecos but the train still doesn't respond to running inputs. Does anyone have any idea on how to remedy this? Or other things to try? Thanks in advance!
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baggio		#2 Posted : 27 August 2017 02:01:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,730 Location: Toronto		Have you tried registering it on a separate piece of track with an MS2 or with your own controller? Also, do you know the address number that the loco presently has? If so, maybe you can try to CHANGE the address to a different one (one that is NOT already taken by your other trains). You may want to do this by first removing any other locos or wagons with a decoder present on the layout OR using the separate piece of track referred to above. If none of the above attempts works, then my gut tells me that you somehow fried the decoder. My gut is not always right.
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river6109		#3 Posted : 27 August 2017 04:42:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,879 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		I'm not aware that mfx decoders register automatically on an ECoS., the decoder may has changed from Motorola to DCC ? regards., John
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H0		#4 Posted : 27 August 2017 07:26:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,467 Location: DE-NW		Hi! Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR I have the 36557 TEE Re 4/4I set, and the factory decoder will not register on my ECOS. It was working the other week [...] No need for the decoder to register again if it already is registered. Just select the loco from the loco list. Or did you reset the ECoS? Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Entering the factory address doesn't seem to do anything. mfx does not have a factory address. This cannot work. You can disable mfx (M4) in the ECoS and then try the MM factory address. Originally Posted by: river6109 I'm not aware that mfx decoders register automatically on an ECoS. The first ECoS was Märklin's Central Station 60212 - and since then mfx decoders register automatically with the ECoS.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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5HorizonsRR		#5 Posted : 27 August 2017 19:29:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		Update, I just did a test with an old 6021 control unit and a test track, and everything worked just fine on the locomotive. Maybe I need to reset something on the ecos? I've deleted and re-entered the loco manually on the ecos as both an M4 and DCC , but no success getting the loco to read. It jsut light up with the track power and sits there. Any other ideas?
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H0		#6 Posted : 27 August 2017 19:38:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,467 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR I've deleted and re-entered the loco manually on the ecos as both an M4 and DCC The loco does not support DCC and you cannot register M4 locos manually. Let the ECoS search for lost M4 locos. Or try the loco with any Mobile Station or Central Station and then try the ECoS again - that should force the loco to do the mfx registration again. Sometimes the mfx sender on the decoder dies. MM protocol still works (CU 6021), but mfx/M4 can no longer be used.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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5HorizonsRR		#7 Posted : 27 August 2017 21:14:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		It registered fine with my MS2, so looks like an ecos problem after all. I had to leave for a business trip but I need to try a few other mfx locos on return and see if it's the one or I need to do some software reloading on the ecos.... Thanks! Will report back later in the week
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xxup		#8 Posted : 27 August 2017 22:08:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,612 Location: Australia		While I realise that you said that the loco was working on the eCOS, is there any chance that you accidentally unchecked the M4 box on the setup screen?
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baggio		#9 Posted : 27 August 2017 23:59:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,730 Location: Toronto		Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR I've deleted and re-entered the loco manually on the ecos as both an M4 and DCC , but no success getting the loco to read. It jsut light up with the track power and sits there. Any other ideas? Have you tried using the address the MS2 gives you when attempting to run the loco on the Eco controller (with no other decoders present)? This issue of a problematic MFX decoder came up fairly recently in this forum and I believe that, oddly enough, if one could change the address with a CS2 or 3, then the loco would run. Perhaps this discussion could be of use to you, post no. 29 in particular. https://www.marklin-user...-CS3---A-hands-on-Review
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franciscohg		#10 Posted : 28 August 2017 00:25:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,299 Location: Patagonia		mfx (M4) locos CANNOT be entered manually unless you deactivate mfx protocol on the controller and then entered as MM2 locomotives, and i assume with newer Maerklin decoders you can also enter them as DCC
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baggio		#11 Posted : 28 August 2017 01:32:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,730 Location: Toronto		Originally Posted by: franciscohg mfx (M4) locos CANNOT be entered manually unless you deactivate mfx protocol on the controller and then entered as MM2 locomotives, and i assume with newer Maerklin decoders you can also enter them as DCC Perhaps this thread may be of some use to our friend - post no. 2 by HO in particular: https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...rollers-and-decoders-101
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H0		#12 Posted : 28 August 2017 07:41:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,467 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: baggio Have you tried using the address the MS2 gives you when attempting to run the loco on the Eco controller (with no other decoders present)? The MS2 does not give you the address used for mfx locos. And even if it would, the mfx address is negotiated automatically between controller and decoder, so will most likely change when switching the controller.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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5HorizonsRR		#13 Posted : 28 August 2017 17:48:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		Thanks all. I'll give this a look when I get back to town Wednesday. I also have not tried registering another MFX locomotive yet - that should help diagnose...
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Tower		#14 Posted : 29 August 2017 09:48:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/02/2010(UTC) Posts: 169 Location: Pretoria, South Africa		I've had the same issue with my 37996 BigBoy last year, an update on my MS2 fixed the issue. Not sure why, but it did.
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H0		#15 Posted : 29 August 2017 09:56:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,467 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Tower I've had the same issue with my 37996 BigBoy last year, an update on my MS2 fixed the issue. Not sure why, but it did. Not sure it is the same problem. The MS2 had an incorrect mfx implementation and needed an upgrade to handle mfx+ locos correctly. The 26557 does not have mfx+ and AFAIK the ECoS never needed an upgrade for mfx+ locos.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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5HorizonsRR		#16 Posted : 31 August 2017 02:31:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		Hi all, The saga continues. I now know I for sure have an ecos problem, not a locomotive problem. I tried to register a different MFX locomotive with no luck, then manual enter a new DCC locomotive without luck. For some reason no locomotive that wasn't already in the controller will work? The reset to factory settings button is blocked on the ecos, so I may try rescue or reloading software to give it a shot. But does anyone else have any ideas?
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baggio		#17 Posted : 31 August 2017 02:33:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,730 Location: Toronto		Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Hi all, The saga continues. I now know I for sure have an ecos problem, not a locomotive problem. I tried to register a different MFX locomotive with no luck, then manual enter a new DCC locomotive without luck. For some reason no locomotive that wasn't already in the controller will work? The reset to factory settings button is blocked on the ecos, so I may try rescue or reloading software to give it a shot. But does anyone else have any ideas? I think it's time to take the unit to the shop for repairs. Is it under warranty?
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5HorizonsRR		#18 Posted : 31 August 2017 03:30:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		Long out of warranty. I just reset the unit to factory settings, but no luck. Now the existing mfx locomotives won't register. So strange...
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baggio		#19 Posted : 31 August 2017 04:03:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,730 Location: Toronto		Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Long out of warranty. I just reset the unit to factory settings, but no luck. Now the existing mfx locomotives won't register. So strange... What locos can you register? Also, the MFX locos previously registered are gone, too, right? I am assuming the controller is very expensive, so it is worth it to spend some money to have it fixed. If the cost is too high, maybe you can just use an MS2 if you have one or buy one. It could be used as a back up controller in future.
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Bigdaddynz		#20 Posted : 31 August 2017 04:53:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		John, did you check in the Ecos setup screen (track icon I believe) as to which protocols are enabled on the Ecos? The problem you are having is symptomatic of mfx being turned off / disabled in the track protocols setting.
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H0		#21 Posted : 31 August 2017 08:11:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,467 Location: DE-NW		To enable mfx, the M4 checkbox must be checked in the ECoS. mfx requires a special sender in the decoder and a special receiver in the controller. In the worst case the mfx receiver is defective. If M4 is checked and still no mfx loco registers then the problem could be with the receiver. You can uncheck the M4 checkbox in the ECoS and operate the locos using MM or DCC. You cannot use all functions with MM. mfx/M4 is a waste of time IMHO and I disabled it in my "ECoS" 60212. It's nice at club meetings - but every now and then a loco won't register causing some trouble. Having the Reset button disabled by default is a feature since the days of the Märklin Central Station 60212. There is another setup page where you unlock the Reset button. Avoids accidental resets, but is not really intuitive. Good intention, but bad UI design.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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5HorizonsRR		#22 Posted : 31 August 2017 20:35:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		Hi all, So I posted in the ESU forum, and appear to have found the issue- you need railcom plus in order to register these locomotives automatically, and the Ecos 50000 does not have this. This is ridiculous to me because MFX registered just fine before the software updates! Since I'm not willing to buy another controller, I now need to sort registration of them manually- which will take another round of reading and education.. (I think if I uncheck the M4 option, they won't register as DCC so I am stuck?)
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baggio		#23 Posted : 31 August 2017 21:10:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,730 Location: Toronto		Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR MFX registered just fine before the software updates! Is there a way of having a reset of the software and then update it to only the previous version, before the final update? Something like what you do in computers when there is a problem and you go back a few months to the way it was. (There is word for this but I can't remember.)
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H0		#24 Posted : 31 August 2017 23:24:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,467 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR (I think if I uncheck the M4 option, they won't register as DCC so I am stuck?) The loco in question supports MM and mfx. You can operate her with MM protocol if you disable M4 in the ECoS. DCC locos need RailCom plus for automatic registration, but since the 26557 does not support DCC at all the information from the ESU forum may not apply at all. AFAIK both the ECoS 50000 and the 50200 support RailCom plus. Just the 60212 does not.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Bigdaddynz		#25 Posted : 01 September 2017 03:21:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR .... you need railcom plus in order to register these locomotives automatically, and the Ecos 50000 does not have this. Originally Posted by: H0 AFAIK both the ECoS 50000 and the 50200 support RailCom plus. Just the 60212 does not. The Ecos 50000 certainly supports Railcom+ - my KM1 BR01 1 Gauge loco happily registers with my Ecos 50000 using Railcom+. Likewise my ESU V200 H0 loco. The Marklin 60212 does not have the hardware inside it needed to support Railcom+, but if you connect an Ecos Ecosboost booster to the 60212R, Railcom+ is available that way.
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xxup		#26 Posted : 01 September 2017 07:52:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,612 Location: Australia		Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Hi all, So I posted in the ESU forum, and appear to have found the issue- you need railcom plus in order to register these locomotives automatically, and the Ecos 50000 does not have this. This is ridiculous to me because MFX registered just fine before the software updates! Since I'm not willing to buy another controller, I now need to sort registration of them manually- which will take another round of reading and education.. (I think if I uncheck the M4 option, they won't register as DCC so I am stuck?) I use mFx all the time with my eCos 2 and the previous eCos 1. I have DCC and Selectrix set to off, M4 and MM are set to on and I never use railcom plus. I believe that advice assumes that all mFx decoders support DCC and Tom has already confirmed that you have the early version of mFx. The registration process is slow - much slower than the CS2 and CS3.. The desperate thing to try is to reinstall the last version of the software. There is a slight chance that something when wrong during the upgrade. UPDATE: I see a later post in your thread on the ESU site confirms that mFx does not use Railcomm+
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5HorizonsRR		#27 Posted : 03 September 2017 02:20:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		Hi all, I thought I"d post my final verdict: the ECOS has somehow lost its MFX capability. After much trial, all tested locos are fine on a MS2 setup, and al ecos settings were correct. I then unchecked the M4 option and registered them manually as motorola- everything works perfectly... SO, I"m finally back to enjoying the trains, but an email to ESU is now due...
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Goofy		#28 Posted : 03 September 2017 07:45:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,292		An important thing to know about Märklins mfx decoder with the Ecos. If you have old version in the Ecos it won´t registration automatic. In this case you must call up MM manually. ESU with the latest version can now registration Märklins mfx automatic but it takes about 2 minutes!! If you have ESU M4 and it stand DCC protocol it registration in about 5 seconds! with the RailcomPlus.
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Bigdaddynz		#29 Posted : 03 September 2017 08:04:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		Originally Posted by: Goofy ESU with the latest version can now registration Märklins mfx automatic but it takes about 2 minutes!! Probably not 2 minutes, more like 60 seconds, at least that is what I experience with my Ecos. But yes, Railcom+ is much faster to register.
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H0		#30 Posted : 03 September 2017 08:30:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,467 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Goofy An important thing to know about Märklins mfx decoder with the Ecos. If you have old version in the Ecos it won´t registration automatic. [...] ESU with the latest version can now registration Märklins mfx automatic [...] AFAIK the ECoS supported mfx right from the start. Any official or authoritative sources that confirm that mfx did not work with early ECoS versions? The ECoS supported mfx before Märklin started making mfx decoders.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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H0		#31 Posted : 03 September 2017 08:33:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,467 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Probably not 2 minutes, more like 60 seconds Depends on the decoder and the situation. I think sound decoders take longer. Registration may take longer when trains are already running.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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5HorizonsRR		#32 Posted : 03 September 2017 17:28:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		Hi all, I'm afraid its just dead. Doesn't even start automatically loading locos for a few minutes. I'm putting an email together to ESU. I'm hoping its jsut a software patch or something. And to answer a prior note- this one has registered MFX as long as I've owned it- since before 2010 at least...
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clapcott		#33 Posted : 03 September 2017 23:40:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,448 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Originally Posted by: H0 The ECoS supported mfx before Märklin started making mfx decoders. Just to attempt to highlight that "making mfx decoders" is different from "providing locos with mfx capability" Marklin was selling and shipping "mfx locos" before the ECoS or CS1 were shipped. I would be surprised if Marklin ever made decoders themselves. It is more a matter of how tightly the outsourcing of their manufacture is managed. Edited by user 05 September 2017 01:41:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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