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Offline mike c  
#1 Posted : 15 February 2017 23:37:41(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,743
Location: Montreal, QC
Today, I received the first two parts of the EC "Tiziano" consist sets, 43876 and 43309. The 43308 (WRmz) and 43310 (3 Bpmz) are on order.
So far, the coaches look very nice. From what I can see, the consist looks very nice. The coaches are nicely detailed, including the varying destination signs, as some coaches only went as far as Chiasso while others went on to Milano on the southern end of the run.
This is an interesting set, as if offers possibilities to all kinds of international modellers. If you want to run the train on a German layout, you would need all 8 coaches and run it behind a BR 120.1 or BR 103. For the Swiss segment, it could be a Re 460 or Re 4/4II between Basel and Luzern and then either a Re 460 or Re 6/6 from Luzern to Chiasso. From Chiasso to Milano, you would need only 5 of the coaches. I am sorry, you still need the 43309 to obtain just the Avmz Eurofima coach to go with the 43876 and 43310 coaches for the final leg of the trip.

Only the WRm (43308) with it's digital functions has lighting. On all other coaches, lighting has to be added separately. As far as what I heard, the WRm does not offer the possibility of decoder controlled lighting of the remaining coaches, but I will have to investigate a little further to be certain.

I will post more when I have received the WRm and can test it.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 16 February 2017 08:26:47(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,845
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
As far as what I heard, the WRm does not offer the possibility of decoder controlled lighting of the remaining coaches, but I will have to investigate a little further to be certain.
I read on Stummi's Forum that the decoder can control the lights in other coaches, but requires reconfiguration of the decoder. No soldering required. Any Central Station should be able to do it.
Link to German post on Stummi's Forum:
http://stummiforum.de/vi...c.php?p=1654400#p1654400

The dining coach is (as usual) in 1:97.5, but the catalogue indicates (as usual) 1:93.5.
So you get an EC Tiziano with a loco in 1:87 (BR 120) or almost 1:87 (BR 103 from Märklin) with coaches that are too short by 21 or 33 mm.
Buyers should know what they get - and Märklin continue to give the wrong scale in the catalogue . In the past few years I informed them several times about that fault in the catalogues and the product database.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline mike c  
#3 Posted : 16 February 2017 09:46:40(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,743
Location: Montreal, QC
I have a mixed consist of Roco and LSM coaches to represent the same consist. That train has a ARm Restaurant coach (316mm) which is exact scale and matches my 303mm coaches perfectly. I know that Maerklin did not release a model of the Avmz111, Bm235 and Bvmz185 to complete this consist, but it looks pretty decent.

I was reading in one of the German forums that the lok should be a 103. The post mentioned that BR 120 were not assigned to routes to Basel at that time.
In any case, there would have been lok changes between departure and Basel, again at Luzern and at Chiasso, some involving reversal of the train. My focus would be with a Re 4/4II (Basel-Luzern) and Re 6/6 or Re 460 from Luzern to Chiasso.

My other question about this consist is whether the Apmz would have had some of the windows on the side opposite the Toilets removed. If I remember, many of those coaches had that change done by 1985.

I am still waiting for LSM's announced 1980s exact scale version of this consist in traditional IC colours.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline rbw993  
#4 Posted : 16 February 2017 17:38:49(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 680
Hi Mike,
So which 5 from Luzern to Chiasso? And would SBB coaches be added on?

Thanks,
Roger
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Offline mike c  
#5 Posted : 16 February 2017 20:01:12(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,743
Location: Montreal, QC
The EC Tiziano travelled from Braunschweig to Chiasso/Milano. Some of the coaches were detached at Chiasso, where they awaited the return train from Italy and once reconnected, they would travel back northward to Germany. The train at one point also included at least one coach from Magdeburg. There were probably two reasons for leaving the coaches in Chiasso, the first being that the WRmz135 restaurant was not equipped for operation in Italy. The other reason was that for a long time, the platforms at Milano Centrale were not equipped to receive trains with more than 7 coaches.

I have seen photos of DB (AG) Eurocity trains in Switzerland. I can't certain whether the train in that particular was the EC Verdi, EC Tiziano, EC Colosseum or EC Carlo Magno, but the photos have shown additional coaches, sometimes Italian (UIC Z2 Grand Comfort or Bigrigio), sometimes Swiss (EWI or EWII) and most frequently a DB AG Interregio coach (Bm 235 or Bim UIC-X rebuild).

Gotthard Route:
http://www.suter-meggen....t/bilder/tiziano_460.jpg
http://www.suter-meggen....ilder/tiziano_goldau.jpg
DB BR 103 (North of Basel):
http://www.bahnbilder.de...t-ec-9-braunschweig.html

Videos with DB EC Trains in Switzerland (Basel-Luzern-Chiasso):
(48:45)
(23:00)
(11:00)

Regards

Mike C
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Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 09 March 2017 05:07:55(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,743
Location: Montreal, QC
I was just informed that my 43308 is on it's way from the Lone Star state to my US address. I am still waiting for the 43310 set to be delivered to complete the consist.
To spice things up, I located a few 28cm Fleischmann coaches, including an Apmz117, Bvmz185 and WRmz137 in the same livery. It will be interesting to see if these coaches can be combined with the Maerklin ones to round out the consist.

I would still love to see an Avmz111 and Bm235 in the same livery from Maerklin.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline mike c  
#7 Posted : 30 March 2017 21:01:40(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,743
Location: Montreal, QC
I just saw that the 43310 3 coach set has made it to shops in Europe. I guess that it will be a few more weeks until they make it across the pond.
The restaurant coach and the Fleischmann coaches have arrived at my US address. I hope to pick them up in the next few days.
I hope that the livery matches and that the coaches and rendered in similar dimensions. I was a little disappointed to find that the Maerklin SBB 28 cm coaches (Eurofima, Couchette and Restaurant) were narrower than the Roco SBB EWIV.
It would be so much better if companies would commit to ensuring that scale length reduction only occurred in relation to coach length and window width measurements. Coach height and width and Window height should remain 1/87.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 30 March 2017 22:35:05(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,845
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
It would be so much better if companies would commit to ensuring that scale length reduction only occurred in relation to coach length and window width measurements. Coach height and width and Window height should remain 1/87.
As I understand it Märklin had to reduce the width of the coaches in order to get 282 mm through tight curves without colliding with bridges and masts.
Transparency could be better. But don't expect that from Märklin. They wrote in the catalogue their ICE 3 was 1:87 - when they sued Piko they showed with two decimal digits that neither length nor width were 1:87. They know very well what they are doing, but they keep the information in the catalogue simple.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 31 March 2017 07:19:43(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,743
Location: Montreal, QC
Maerklin's trick when it comes to the longer coaches has been to design the bogies with an off centre pivot, which reduces the overhang of the coach in curves. This is definitely non-prototypical, but ensures that the coaches can be operated on R1 with catenary masts and signals.

I remember running a Liliput 30cm coach on a set with 5120 industrial curves and listening to the tick tick tick from each successive mast.

I have no problem with reducing the scale length. I do get irritated when I see models with the incorrect window or door height aspect.

Mistakes that could have been corrected with a few extra seconds' effort irk me.

That said, I like the Tiziano so far and I hope that the entire consist will look great, even if the restaurant is a few mm too short.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline mike c  
#10 Posted : 11 April 2017 05:26:17(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,743
Location: Montreal, QC
I now am running my Tiziano as follows: Re 6-6 - Apmz - WRmz - Avmz - Bpmz - Bvmz* until my 43310 gets here. As locomotive, I have been using either the 37320 Re6/6 or the 37325 Re 6/6 for the Luzern-Chiasso segment. *The Bvmz is a Fleischmann 5112K Bvmz 185 in the matching livery. It looks quite good combined with the Maerklin cars. The only thing that I am not certain about is that the Bvmz model comes with the airtight gangway connections, which I am not sure is appropriate for the Tiziano consist. The roof of the coach is ivory, which looks very prototypical when mixed with the grey and silver roofs of the Maerklin coaches. The coach has the same scale width as the Maerklin ones and the scale length matches. Unlike, the Maerklin coaches, the Fleischmann one has bogies which pivot on the centre of the bogie. This might cause the coach to hang over more in curves and may be an issue with catenary masts on R1.

I checked my older 1/100 models and can attest to the fact that the IC (4296) and IC85 models of the Apmz both have the window openings opposite the Washrooms sealed. It is interesting to note that the Tiziano Apmz is the same as the TEE version, with those windows still present, but the coach has upgraded bogies compared to the TEE version.

I will post a few photos of the consist, including with the Fleischmann coaches when I have the time.
FL5111 (Apmz 123) - MA43309 (Avmz)
FL5111-MA43309.jpg
FL5112 (Bvmz 185) - MA43876 (Bpmz)
FL5112-MA43876.jpg
Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 12 April 2017 05:58:04(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline mike c  
#11 Posted : 13 April 2017 06:24:49(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,743
Location: Montreal, QC
I finally got around to posting some photos of the Maerklin Tiziano coaches alongside some Fleischmann models in the same scale.
See my last post.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline petestra  
#12 Posted : 09 May 2017 12:47:55(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,694
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Well said, Mike. No use being a rivet counter if the cars don't stay on the tracks. It's really a great looking train. Cheers, Peter Cool ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp
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Offline mike c  
#13 Posted : 31 May 2017 06:24:08(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,743
Location: Montreal, QC
I finally received the final three coaches of my EC Tiziano set. The 43310 coaches are nicely painted. According to Maerklin, the coaches have slight variances representing the modifications made to the coaches. I will take some photos once I can set up the full consist, including the Fleischmann coaches.

I am very pleased that the paintwork on the entire consist is well done and the coaches all match together.
I had wanted to add an Eurofima coach from the 43306 and the single 43876 Bpmz to my IC Beethoven sets, but the shades were different.
The 43876 was moulded in blue, which resulted in the beige section having a distinct bluish tinge.

With the EC Tiziano set, I have a complete consist that I can run behind one of my Maerklin Re 6/6, most likely either the red or green version with round lights.
The models with rectangular lights represent the later modification to Re(f) 6/6. If Maerklin still wants to make another Re 6/6 or two, I will take one in the first Cargo livery (light green like 34345) and a second one in red as it would have appeared in 1995-1998.

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 01 June 2017 07:38:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline mike c  
#14 Posted : 14 August 2017 04:13:29(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,743
Location: Montreal, QC
I finally located an received the final Fleischmann coach that I was looking for to complete my EC Tiziano consist.
Here's a photo of the Fleischmann 5115 Bm235 next to one of the Maerklin 43310 coaches:
43310-5115.jpg

Regards

Mike C
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#15 Posted : 15 August 2017 02:16:24(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,909
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Mike and all,
As a train enthusiast, it is quite satisfying to see you build a consist like that over time, to represent the real train.
Thanks for sharing.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline Reddo  
#16 Posted : 12 October 2020 17:42:16(UTC)
Reddo

United Kingdom   
Joined: 12/10/2020(UTC)
Posts: 1
Location: Yorkshire
Hello Mike C

I have just joined this forum as I am in process of configuring this set for running (I have all the sets ie 43876, 43310, 43308 and 43309)

I am running standard DCC with Ecos 50210 which has 'read' the 43308 decoder and found the coach in the library (it notes the decoder as a Trix decoder!). My investment in that EcoS just keeps paying me back :-)

I changed the wheels sets in the 43308 to ensure correct pickup to the decoder and all sounds (and lighting) work fine as per Function keys as per the instruction book. So far so good...

Has anyone run the full consist using the Marklin powered couplings to transfer power and sunsequent coach lighting?

I see the coaches have the brass base pickup but no lighting boards so need to check if the coupler in those coaches can receive power

I Plan to install my own lighting boards; can these be directly fed from the coach coupling and / or is this fed from the decoder in the 43308 car so that it is a switched output eg from the dining car lighting function

I have read through all the discussion on the stummiform at length (translated via Google translate) but there is no clear answer and they all seem to use the Marklin DCC controllers

So In essence, can all the other coaches be fed for lighting via the powered coach connections?
Thanks
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#17 Posted : 13 October 2020 00:51:04(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,416
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Reddo Go to Quoted Post

I am running standard DCC with Ecos 50210 which has 'read' the 43308 decoder and found the coach in the library (it notes the decoder as a Trix decoder!).


all the Marklin DCC capable decoders use a Trix identification because Trix took out an NMRA company code long before Marklin decided they had to add DCC capability to their decoders, so as they own Trix they use that one instead of getting a seperate Marklin one.
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