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Offline xxup  
#1 Posted : 04 June 2017 13:41:30(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,458
Location: Australia
Earlier this week, I was at my local dealer, Nathan's Trains 'N Toys, when Noel tells me that he has just taken delivery of a few CS3s. Noel is well aware that I am a diehard ESU eCos user and moving me to a replacement machine, especially one made by Marklin is going to be a very tough sell for him.

In Noel's shop there is an ESU eCos with the colour screen and a Marklin CS2, which he uses to test and demonstrate various locos and accessories, and do things like create loco cards on the CS2 for his customers. I prefer the eCos as the software and screen are responsive. That is, when I select an item on the screen it does things without noticeable delay. This is very important to the Nerd in me. My experience with the CS2 is that there is a noticeable lag between my request and the system's response. In my opinion, this is not satisfactory for a device developed in the 21st century.

None of this says that the CS2 is useless. Far from it. There are many things that the CS2 does better than the eCos. It can register mFx locos a lightning speed compared to the eCos. It has the great loco card system, which is great if you have non-mFx locos that you don't want to sit down and waste ages entering functions and images into your controller. There is also the option to use a mouse, and you can install your upgrade from a USB drive if you don't have a network to your train room.

Now we come to the CS3 - not the CS3 plus. The first thing you notice, and it is nearly very disturbing, is that it has no buttons for the functions. Until you remember that the latest locos now have 32 functions. Just think about that for a minute. 32 buttons each side of a digital screen - it would look like a digital piano accordion and probably be just as hard to use. What happens when they want to offer 64 functions on each loco? A Nightmare! So this design aspect seems to be sensible, but we need to see how it works on the screen.

Oh THAT screen - it is high resolution and a squillion colours - simply beautiful. It certainly makes the eCos (800x480) and the CS2 look tired. The second thing that you notice is how responsive the interface is to your actions. This thing is way faster than the CS2 and even the eCos. Unfortunately, the photos that I took with my phone do not do justice to the screen. We loaded the image for the Br 03 1022, that we had on the track at the time, and the blue colour of the image was rich and deep. Simply beautiful.

For me, the new interface is logical, but those of you who may not be as computer literate, might struggle for a while to find the things that are seldom used on the CS2. There is a built in help and tutorial system, but we did get lost at one part of the tutorial as it was unclear where it wanted us to go next. If you are comfortable using a modern smart phone, then you will find this interface easier to use, as much of the functionality appears by dragging objects from the edge of the screen toward the center. This is the device for the younger generation of MRR enthusiasts.

UserPostedImage
On the left is the 16 functions of the recently digitised 3085 BR 03, and to the right of the functions is the on-screen throttle. You can see speed step 1 of the 127 M4 Decoder in the loco. On the right of the screen you see the function panel fully retracted to the right. I won't go into the operation of the CS3 as this will be covered in coming months in the Marklin Magazin.

New in this system is the ability to expand the storage of the CS3 using a SD card. This is not for copying files to and from the CS3, you should use USB drives for this - rather it is used to expand the internal storage to 32Mb. Obviously, we did not have time or the data to test this idea, but I believe it will be invaluable for people with larger and more complex layouts, and it may become more useful in years to come as the core software grows to provide enhanced functionality.

Should you buy it - Hell Yeah! This is the system for the 21st Century. It is the console of choice for people, who have a computerised layout and use an external device to connect their S88s directly to their computer.

Should you buy it now? Not yet. It is the first of a new model and there are a few obvious software problems with the unit - mainly around the unexpected amount German text that has not been translated to English. I think that in six months the product will be much more mature and robust. The CS3 is the future.
Adrian
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 04 June 2017 14:28:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Adrian,
Thanks for the review.
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
This is the device for the younger generation of MRR enthusiasts.
I'm too old for it.
Tried it at the Dortmund fair, but my fingers are way too thick for the small UI elements.
Things might become better with future software releases.

I'd recommend everybody who wants to get a CS3 to get their hands on one (dealer, trade fair, friend) before placing an order.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline franciscohg  
#3 Posted : 04 June 2017 14:32:44(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,266
Location: Patagonia
Adrian....please stop it!Razz
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#4 Posted : 05 June 2017 04:49:42(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
I too would advise to give it a few updates. It definitely has potential. I am not sure about the touch screen, it seems rather gimicky. I use a mouse on mine for set up and track plan work. Running the trains and setting turnouts, signals etc. works okay with touch IMO. Not the best experience, but I cannot determine if it is the software or the screen hardware.

Actually, I think the new Viessmann Commander is rather interesting because it lets you decide your own screen (it does not have one itself, just the output port). An interesting concept. When I saw it, I thought that this was perhaps what the CS3 should have been. If you cannot include a touch screen that is up to today's tablet or smartphone standards, you might as well let the user decide for themselves. I could choose to a more expensive and better working touch screen for my setup, or I could choose to have none at all.

Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
I'm too old for it.

LOL Tom, judging from your signature, even if Märklin had come up with a solution that would have made the angels sing, you still probably wouldn't have liked it. wink
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 05 June 2017 08:11:26(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
I'm too old for it.

LOL Tom, judging from your signature, even if Märklin had come up with a solution that would have made the angels sing, you still probably wouldn't have liked it. wink
The biggest problems of Märklin: no efficient quality assurance, lack of attention to details, incomprehensible manuals, dirt-cheap motors with impotent decoders, lack of transparency about length scales and places of origin, ...
And what do they brag about in their brochures: the level of quality, the level of details, the smooth running of their locos.

The CS3 was buggier than Maine in June when it was first shipped. What's wrong about my signature? LOL
If Märklin products are on the level then I will say so.

If it takes me three attempts to stop a train by touching on the screen then I cannot safely operate my trains. So I am too old for it.
I could also say the sensitive areas on the screen are too small and too close together - then I would put the blame on Märklin.

The CS1 was shipped too early with immature software.
The CS2 was shipped too early with immature software.
The CS3 was shipped too early with immature software.
The CS3 currently is far from being perfect. I say I'm too old for it and you turn it against me.


My conclusion: Get your hands on the CS3 before you place an order. Decide if it suits your needs.
I will soon update my Central Station 60212 to version 4.2.0 and IMHO it suits my needs better than the CS3. ThumpUp

And don't forget the CS3 comes without power supply and it cannot be used with transformers.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#6 Posted : 06 June 2017 11:01:03(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
I say I'm too old for it and you turn it against me.

Easy now, just poking fun. Actually, I was just thinking that almost no matter what Märklin do, you seem to have a negative angle on it. I cannot remember I have ever seen you being positive about a Märklin product. So I was not surprised that you did not like the CS3. Smile
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#7 Posted : 06 June 2017 11:41:52(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
.....no matter what Märklin do, you seem to have a negative angle on it.


My take on it is that Tom has become a bit jaded by promises from Marklin, only for them to be partially met or not met at all!
Offline David Dewar  
#8 Posted : 08 June 2017 23:46:56(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,333
Location: Scotland
Do you have to use a finger to touch the screen. Why not a small pointer thing.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#9 Posted : 09 June 2017 00:32:15(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
.....
My conclusion: Get your hands on the CS3 before you place an order. Decide if it suits your needs.
I will soon update my Central Station 60212 to version 4.2.0 and IMHO it suits my needs better than the CS3. ThumpUp
.....


Thanks for the review Adrian.

Hmmm ........ I must be the same age as Tom.
I too use a 60212 and find it adequate.
And my only other experience is with NCE DCC handheld controllers with buttons.

I do not use the CS for accessory control, so anything more powerful or complex is a waste on me.
SO while I really appreciate Adrians review, it is most likely I will stay with the CS1 on my Marklin layout.

regards
Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline Danlake  
#10 Posted : 09 June 2017 04:44:37(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Do you have to use a finger to touch the screen. Why not a small pointer thing.


Hi David,

The screen are touch sensitive, so you can not use the hard stylus which e.g. is included with CS2. You can get soft stylus that imitates a finger, but these are still pretty wide. The ideal is a kid small finger, not an middle age old finger pointerLOL

Some functions also is designed to use 2 fingers too zoom in an out.

I agree with Tom regarding safety issue of not being able to control speed of locomotive consistently. You press to stop a train by clicking on zero speed graph and half the time you would miss touched and the train continues zooming away. I assume Marklin design philosophy was that you should use your finger to scroll the speed down until it reach zero, but that's not how we always operate trains, especially if you are just testing the trains, or moving them them quickly from A to B for an operating session. With the CS2 and the speedometers it was never an issue to bring the loco to an halt, but on CS3 everything is packed pretty tightly so the tolerances are much smaller.

As mentioned previously there is actually a potential damaging fault in this, because the direction arrows underneath the speed bar is so close to the speed bar itself. So if you try and press on the bottom of the speed bar, to stop train using the designated de acceleration value, you may actually have pressed the reverse direction arrow, which of course stops the locomotive abruptly and this is really not good for your motor and gears...

It's such a shame that Marklin did not so some more end user testing on this product. It had the potential to beat all other command stationsThumpUp

It is however still lighting fast in mfx registration and I don't think any other command stations can beat this.

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline MaerklinLife  
#11 Posted : 09 June 2017 05:18:01(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
It's such a shame that Marklin did not so some more end user testing on this product. It had the potential to beat all other command stationsThumpUp

It still has. As long as they listen to the feedback that gets sent in.
Offline xxup  
#12 Posted : 09 June 2017 09:12:23(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,458
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
....As mentioned previously there is actually a potential damaging fault in this, because the direction arrows underneath the speed bar is so close to the speed bar itself. So if you try and press on the bottom of the speed bar, to stop train using the designated de acceleration value, you may actually have pressed the reverse direction arrow, which of course stops the locomotive abruptly and this is really not good for your motor and gears...


This is very true, but there are still two big red knobs for controlling the speed..

Adrian
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Offline Torstein  
#13 Posted : 09 June 2017 11:32:39(UTC)
Torstein

Norway   
Joined: 27/03/2010(UTC)
Posts: 338
Location: Norway
You do not put your finger on zero/bottom on the green bar to stop the train. You put the finger on the top of the green bar and a quick movement with the fingertip toward you and it will go by itself to zero.

No problem with direction arrows.

7 month daily use of CS3 - perfect controller BigGrin

Torstein
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#14 Posted : 09 June 2017 15:27:44(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Torstein Go to Quoted Post
You do not put your finger on zero/bottom on the green bar to stop the train. You put the finger on the top of the green bar and a quick movement with the fingertip toward you and it will go by itself to zero.

No problem with direction arrows.

7 month daily use of CS3 - perfect controller BigGrin

Torstein


IIRC on the CS1 you double tap the speed bar and it goes to 0. Can't remember if the CS2 and CS3 are supposed to do this too.

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Offline Minok  
#15 Posted : 09 June 2017 22:29:30(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Until you remember that the latest locos now have 32 functions. Just think about that for a minute. 32 buttons each side of a digital screen - it would look like a digital piano accordion and probably be just as hard to use. What happens when they want to offer 64 functions on each loco?


What also remains to be seen is if there is any practical need for 32 functions (mostly sound) much less more than that.
Beyond the 'gee whiz look what I can do', I would imagine most usage of a loco doesn't go near most of the sound functions.
What would the other sound functions be?
  1. Engineer burps?
  2. Engineer farts?
  3. Passenger opens/closes windows?
    ...


What I need is not more sounds but a rock solid reliable way to programmatically uncouple and couple up cars on the layout under computer control to facilitate the locomotive change-over at end stations.

For those that are using transformers, the CS3 family isn't your domain I suppose. One could say "The 70's called and want their technology back" but in reality old and tested and reliable technology that works is worth its weight in gold. Stick with it - if it does what you need, then it doesn't matter what new things come out. Heck, I'm building out a computer area so I can permanently set up and operate my old 8-bit 1970's/80's computers and game systems: Atari Pong, 2600 VCS, 800/xl/xe computers, Commodore 64, Mattel Intellivision, old school uni-directional 8 pin dot matrix Centronix printer.. thought the acoustic 300 baud handset modem will not be live... there isn't an land line and what BBS could I dial into anyway.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline Danlake  
#16 Posted : 10 June 2017 04:36:35(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Minok,

Probably not 32 functions, but other sound decoders are getting more and more advanced and I don't see that trend disappearing.

I recently installed a ESU sound decoder and loaded a US sound file with full throttle function. And I must admit it's pretty cool what you can do!

For those not familiar with some of the latest function is that now functions is not only about turning lights or sound on and off. They are now be integrated in the driving of the loco. So e.g. there is a function call "drive hold". On a normal standard diesel sound decoder you would hear the engine increasing rpm as you increase the speed of the loco. Now with ESU decoders you can drive as they do in the real world. You hit a climb but want the engine to stay at the same speed. You press "drive hold" and the loco will remain at the speed you have the drive throttle on. Then as the engine starts climbing you increase the speed throttle and the sound of the diesel electric engine wrapping up will be heard. Similiar with coasting. You have a long freight train on a descent, to save power the engineers would normally notch down the engine but train remains at same speed coasting down in a quiet fashion and all you hear is clank, clank etc.

I expect too see more and more of these functions in the future. Marklin is yet to get on board but I think they will have to eventually.

So functions is not only about having your standard sounds and lights, but having special functions depending on how you wish to drive your trains. E.g. you could have pre-programmed different motor decoder settings for slow speed and high speed and activate either of them via a function buttons? That could result in even smoother drive characteristics.

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline river6109  
#17 Posted : 22 June 2017 07:28:50(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
reading all this sounds great but at the end of a day what is it all about, more money to be outlaid, more functions, more difficult tasks, reshaping your fingers but the American version ESU sound decoders as Lasse explained, is classy and realistic.

I think the technology should lead the way with decoders and not command stations and make things easier and not more complicated., locos are being produced with fixed functions one can not normally install, e.g. pantographs up and down, brakes are on fire, sparks around pantograph wiper, and some locos with sound decoders have just the minimal Aux functions activated or installed.

my focus will be more on getting my trains running and not so much on new gadgets, like new mobile phones, haven't had one for years. to me I'm happy what I've got and getting new items would only make me frustrated when they don't work properly by wasting more time.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline applor  
#18 Posted : 23 June 2017 01:13:10(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Thanks for the review. I am (probably) one of the few that doesn't have a large controller yet.

I just have a MS2 which is great for testing etc. but I will need a large controller such as CS3 when I begin to test my layout build with PC control etc.

I am still some ways off really needing one though so that works well, buying a CS3 once the software is further refined.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline artfull dodger  
#19 Posted : 28 June 2017 21:12:57(UTC)
artfull dodger

United States   
Joined: 31/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 475
Location: Indiana, Kokomo
I wish I could afford the CS3! Beautiful graphics. I got to see one being used at a train show that Marklin USA was there demostrating it at. While I love my MS2, the CS3 is the future of model train control. Yes updates need to be done and I am sure they will be as we all get to beta test the darn things. I think in todays business model, its cheaper to let the end customer beta test them and just offer updates and revisions. Thus getting the initial model to market faster. Down side, some unhappy customers with the initial product release. But many more happy modelers over unhappy otherwise they would be out of business again. Now if it didnt cost more than a regular touch screen tablet! Get the price down to what someone can buy a tablet for, and use for model train control with other brands like Digitrax and they will have my money. Till then, I have many more train needs that cost way less than the CS3. Mike
Silly NT's..I have Asperger's Syndrome!!!!
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Offline TEEWolf  
#20 Posted : 03 July 2017 23:45:15(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: applor Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the review. I am (probably) one of the few that doesn't have a large controller yet.

I just have a MS2 which is great for testing etc. but I will need a large controller such as CS3 when I begin to test my layout build with PC control etc.

I am still some ways off really needing one though so that works well, buying a CS3 once the software is further refined.



I was also one these fews and have the same experience. I got 2 MS 2 and for last X-mas I bought a CS 3+ (60216). Indeed, sooner or later you need a big controller. If it is for updating a MS 2 (if you do not have a neighbour or dealer next door), using a computer, external screen, make your own sounds, programming your locos, etc. etc. you need a big controller. OK and a CS 3 gives you the only ability to use mfx+.

And which choice do you have? There are many controllers on the market, but be honest, only ECos is a competitor for a CS 3+. But Ecos cannot use mfx+, so I bought a CS 3+. And if you extend a CS 3 (60226) with a S88 interface as a CS 3+ has (60216), you are only about 15 € cheaper as buying a CS 3+ from the beginning. But the CS 3+ has the additional advantage of its galvanic isolation (you recognize it by the CAN in- and output device at a CS 3+) inside.

Since the last software update to version 1.3.0 the CS 3 is working quite well. Nevertheless I read, that Maerklin wil issue its next version 1.4.0 in fall this year.
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Offline TEEWolf  
#21 Posted : 04 July 2017 00:10:47(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
I say I'm too old for it and you turn it against me.

Easy now, just poking fun. Actually, I was just thinking that almost no matter what Märklin do, you seem to have a negative angle on it. I cannot remember I have ever seen you being positive about a Märklin product. So I was not surprised that you did not like the CS3. Smile


Indeed, I got the the same impression, but in one point I have to agree with H0: this touch screen is not accessible for this product. I am also a little bit older Huh and have the same problem with my fingers. But I do have this problem e.g. at my mothers Ipad too. And a smartphone is not usable to me. These screens are for young girls with twiggy fingers, but not for experienced men.BigGrin.

I solve this problem with a mouse, one of these "rubber tipping pens" Cool and at least with my 2 MS 2 in front of the CS 3 Blink. They still have real buttons to press.BigGrin. But this red STOP bar at the CS 3 is unbeatable.Laugh
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Offline applor  
#22 Posted : 04 July 2017 05:01:27(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
[nd which choice do you have? There are many controllers on the market, but be honest, only ECos is a competitor for a CS 3+. But Ecos cannot use mfx+, so I bought a CS 3+. And if you extend a CS 3 (60226) with a S88 interface as a CS 3+ has (60216), you are only about 15 € cheaper as buying a CS 3+ from the beginning. But the CS 3+ has the additional advantage of its galvanic isolation (you recognize it by the CAN in- and output device at a CS 3+) inside.


I do have some MFX+ locomotives now, though I don't mind running them as MFX on an ECOS but haven't really looked at the ECOS yet.

As for S88 for CS3 vs CS3+, well I use the S88-HSI to my computer for Rocrail so don't need the S88-N marklin module.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline Goofy  
#23 Posted : 05 July 2017 08:25:45(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
It seems bad reviews here about CS3 after upgrade to 1.3!
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline MaerklinLife  
#24 Posted : 05 July 2017 12:05:03(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
It seems bad reviews here about CS3 after upgrade to 1.3!


How?
Offline TEEWolf  
#25 Posted : 05 July 2017 17:17:16(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
It seems bad reviews here about CS3 after upgrade to 1.3!


Where did you read them? Link please.

In the German communities I only read positiv comments about this software update to version 1.3.0., sometimes even surprised ones, because of the now achieved standard of the CS 3. Especially by members who have/had a CS 2. I never had a CS 2, so I cannot compare it.
Offline Goofy  
#26 Posted : 05 July 2017 19:35:59(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
No i mean member who has already CS3 and did upgrade latest version.
But you have porr reviews here about CS3 here.
Do you have any reviews about CS3?
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline TEEWolf  
#27 Posted : 05 July 2017 21:12:23(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
No i mean member who has already CS3 and did upgrade latest version.
But you have porr reviews here about CS3 here.
Do you have any reviews about CS3?


Well, first you were complaining and writing about negative (bad) reviews. Why do you not trust @xxups very detailed report above?

I do not have links to reviews here at marklin-users.net, but you know the member @clapcott? He published at marklin-users.net the CS 3 changelog (and hopefully he will follow up this changelog in the same way as Maerklin is updating the software.).
If you are interested, see here:

https://www.marklin-user...3--CS-3-plus---ChangeLog
Offline river6109  
#28 Posted : 06 July 2017 16:26:04(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
registering mfx ? isn't this done once ? so why do you need more speed or have it done quicker ?

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline TEEWolf  
#29 Posted : 07 July 2017 02:53:58(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
registering mfx ? isn't this done once ? so why do you need more speed or have it done quicker ?

John


Sorry, do not understand your questions. You are right, that the mfx registration is done automatically (and for my purpose and understanding pretty quick at the CS 3). But accidentially today I read in the manual of the CS 3 how you can manually change the mfx address and drive the loco directly.

See the manual for the CS 3 (60216) page 14 (in English)
"Configuring mfx Locomotives".

Do not know yet for what purpose you need a manually set CV address for a mfx or mfx+ locomotive. But it seems to me, that it is possible to set and run it manually.

By the way, I just recognized that the CS 3 manual is now in 6 languages availbale.
(German, English, French, Dutch, Italien, Spanish).

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/60216/

see under the point "Manuals" or ""Order spare parts" and then there "operation manual".

Remark: there is no difference between the manual for a CS 3 (60226) and a CS 3+ (60216).

Edited by user 28 August 2017 14:34:13(UTC)  | Reason: it is page 14 instead 54 because the manual starts at each language section at page 1 again.

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Offline Goofy  
#30 Posted : 08 July 2017 16:15:52(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

Well, first you were complaining and writing about negative (bad) reviews. Why do you not trust @xxups very detailed report above?



You did miss-understanding me again.
There is more members here who did bought CS3 but it´s no reviews from them.
That´s way i did wrote "bad"...which i should have write "porr" instead.


H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline petestra  
#31 Posted : 11 August 2017 01:05:18(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,824
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Hi friends. I received my CS3 this past January so I have it six months now. I have never had the CS1 or 2, just MS2s. I am very happy with it. The things I will never

do with it is to make a layout map on it. My layout is way too confusing for that and I still operate all points and most signals via analog controller. I have six

of the new generation signals (76... series) on the screen. I am looking forward to the new book when I finally get it (do out this Sept. now) . I would like to separate

my 62 Loks to have the steam, elecs, & diesels each in their own area. I will also like to learn how to store in the running time of each Lok.

PeterCool

Edited by user 11 August 2017 21:40:54(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline baggio  
#32 Posted : 28 August 2017 01:17:37(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Sorry, do not understand your questions. You are right, that the mfx registration is done automatically (and for my purpose and understanding pretty quick at the CS 3). But accidentially today I read in the manual of the CS 3 how you can manually change the mfx address and drive the loco directly.

See the manual for the CS 3 (60216) page 54 (in English)
"Configuring mfx Locomotives".


Does this mean you CAN change the address of an MFX decoder? Confused
Offline TEEWolf  
#33 Posted : 28 August 2017 14:28:06(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Sorry, do not understand your questions. You are right, that the mfx registration is done automatically (and for my purpose and understanding pretty quick at the CS 3). But accidentially today I read in the manual of the CS 3 how you can manually change the mfx address and drive the loco directly.

See the manual for the CS 3 (60216) page 14 [corrected!] (in English)
"Configuring mfx Locomotives".


Does this mean you CAN change the address of an MFX decoder? Confused


YES, you can!

And honestly, it must be possible. Otherwise how would you control two equal locos with distinct controlers? Mfx is searching and setting the various loco addresses automatically. For all other decoder formats you have to do this manually. At a minimum for one loco it requires the change of one loco address. Otherwise the locos (with the same digital address) run always parallel with the same speed, via the one controller you are using.

Also this is the reason, why you need for programming locos with a NON-mfx format a seperated programming track from your regular layout. (Or remove all other locos prior to programming from your layout).

Please see here for setting another address for a decoder format in general and for mfx in particular.

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/60216/
under index "Manuals"

https://static.maerklin....065db123781498138103.pdf

Page 14 at the manual for a CS 3 in each language section: "Configuring mfx Locomotives" and "Running a Locomotive with Address Control" are the headings.
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Offline clapcott  
#34 Posted : 29 August 2017 11:56:26(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Does this mean you CAN change the address of an MFX decoder? Confused

YES, you can!


Restricting the discussion to the mfx mode of the decoder (not the alternate MM and DCC modes it may be capable of)

The mfxuid of a decoder is akin to a serial number, is unique and cannot be changed

It is the controller that, on registration of a mfx decoder, assigns a SID (Short ID) and binds it for subsequent use.
The SID is just an integer number - incremented as each new loco is registered on the controller. i.e. each controller will (probably) have a different SID for the same locomotive.

With the DirectAddressDrive mode of the CS2/CS3 you may make use of this SID , once you have determined what the controller has assigned to which loco.

As a user , you may only affect a change of the SID by way of the sequence/order in which you register the locos/decoders.
However you may not set a specific address (SID or mfxuid)


========================================================================
Working reference
========================================================================
For a CS2/CS3 if you point your browser at http://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/config/lokomotive.cs2 a configuration file is shown with a number of "lockomotiv" stanza. Within the data you can see the various addressing options and proxies.
Comment: Addressing by name or image is just as relevant as any number - it is all contextual.

UserPostedImage

For the CS3 the SID is seen grayed out (uneditable) when you edit the locomotives settings
UserPostedImage

The CS2 equivalent. Note this is the same loco as above and the the mfxuid, name and icon are the same, but the Controller has allocated a different SID (0xC hex = 12 Decimal).
UserPostedImage
And the CS2 view of the loko config with the SID address shown
UserPostedImage



Here you can see the theoretical use of the DirectAddressDrive mode.
Comment: However, unlike the use of DCC and MM which can be used regardless of the item (loco) being previously defined, the mfX item DOES need to be previously defined. Therefore - why don't you just use the proper icon
UserPostedImage

It is worth noting that using the Direct Address Mode on a CS2s WILL translate and present the Loco Name.
This does not happen on the CS3, with only the simple numeric value as seen above and no link to which actual loco it is controlling.
UserPostedImage

Edited by user 31 August 2017 22:33:29(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
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Offline TEEWolf  
#35 Posted : 01 September 2017 02:53:31(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

Restricting the discussion to the mfx mode of the decoder (not the alternate MM and DCC modes it may be capable of)


Question: Why do you want to change the digital variable address of a mfx decoder to a digital fixed decoder address? It does not make any sense to me, although I still do have the opinion that it is possible. I am talking only about the digital address and never of an internal serial number (SID, mfxuid, or similar code) and/or hardware ID.

Because very simply spoken, changing the mfx decoder to a fixed digital address, you repatriate the decoder to a fx decoder with an MM format. So the MM format or other formats cannot be left outside. Again, why do you want to do such a repatriation? But for what reason do you want to do it? Why should it be done?

Maerklin is going just the other way. Shortly described: use only mfx decoders and forget all about digital addresses. If you only have mfx articles (not only in locos, also in signals, coaches, turnouts, etc.) than you can forget everything about decoder addresses and their management. It is automati­cally done by the mfx format. So why do want to change it?

Example question: do you know or are you interested in the different gear transmission ratios of your six shifting gear? Or do you have a seven gear automatic transmission and still interested in the gear transmission ratios? Probably not. Or even do you want to change your 7 automatic transmission gear with an 6 shifting gearbox? I doubt it.

But another question. In your pictures from your CS 3, I recognized on the left and right side F1 to F7 keys. I do not get these F1 to F32 keys on my CS 3 and my already listed locos I “only” get pictograms there and this causes me more and more a headache.
Offline baggio  
#36 Posted : 01 September 2017 04:46:14(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Question: Why do you want to change the digital variable address of a mfx decoder to a digital fixed decoder address?


Answer: Because the MFX does not work. This means the loco does not run.

By disactivating the MFX signal, the loco is then usable as an ordinary FX loco.

(This whole thread is making me reconsider the value of an MFX decoder, unfortunately. If the MFX decoder acts up, it becomes a nightmare to deal with.)

Perhaps I got this thread mixed up with this one: MFX.
Offline TEEWolf  
#37 Posted : 02 September 2017 13:58:06(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Does this mean you CAN change the address of an MFX decoder? Confused

YES, you can!


Restricting the discussion to the mfx mode of the decoder (not the alternate MM and DCC modes it may be capable of)

The mfxuid of a decoder is akin to a serial number, is unique and cannot be changed

It is the controller that, on registration of a mfx decoder, assigns a SID (Short ID) and binds it for subsequent use.
The SID is just an integer number - incremented as each new loco is registered on the controller. i.e. each controller will (probably) have a different SID for the same locomotive.

With the DirectAddressDrive mode of the CS2/CS3 you may make use of this SID , once you have determined what the controller has assigned to which loco.

As a user , you may only affect a change of the SID by way of the sequence/order in which you register the locos/decoders.
However you may not set a specific address (SID or mfxuid)


========================================================================
Working reference
========================================================================
For a CS2/CS3 if you point your browser at http://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/config/lokomotive.cs2 a configuration file is shown with a number of "lockomotiv" stanza. Within the data you can see the various addressing options and proxies.
Comment: Addressing by name or image is just as relevant as any number - it is all contextual.

UserPostedImage

For the CS3 the SID is seen grayed out (uneditable) when you edit the locomotives settings
UserPostedImage

The CS2 equivalent. Note this is the same loco as above and the the mfxuid, name and icon are the same, but the Controller has allocated a different SID (0xC hex = 12 Decimal).
UserPostedImage
And the CS2 view of the loko config with the SID address shown
UserPostedImage



Here you can see the theoretical use of the DirectAddressDrive mode.
Comment: However, unlike the use of DCC and MM which can be used regardless of the item (loco) being previously defined, the mfX item DOES need to be previously defined. Therefore - why don't you just use the proper icon
UserPostedImage

It is worth noting that using the Direct Address Mode on a CS2s WILL translate and present the Loco Name.
This does not happen on the CS3, with only the simple numeric value as seen above and no link to which actual loco it is controlling.
UserPostedImage


Hello Clapcott,

you read the topic: "Running a Locomotive with Address Control" on page 14 at the CS 3 manual? You have to because your last image is from that section of the CS 3 manual. (I am not familiar as it is at a CS 2).

It says:

"Tap in the locomotive list on the tool symbol („Edit“) in order to control and
run a locomotive directly by means of its address and then select the „Add direct
address drive“ (left image) in the dropdown menu that opens.

Enter the address for the locomotive on the numerical keypad that opens and select
the protocol for the decoder in use. The address entered is automatically taken
into the locomotive controller (in the example to the right the address 25).
Now you can run the locomotive directly.

You can change the address and protocol at any time for such an address control
locomotive: Simply tap on the address display. The keypad will then appear again
(right image)."
(end of quote - quote without the images)

I did not test or try it. But in this paragraph is written (and shown at the image), while you enter manually a digital address, you have the choice between MM, DCC, mfx format for setting a direct control address. This means to me, by setting this direct controll address, you also can specify for the mfx format a direct digital address. But this is then a fixed address and then it looses its mfx character for flexible digital addresses. But with this "address control" you can run your loco. Or I am wrong and misunderstand the text?

regards

TEEWolf
Offline clapcott  
#38 Posted : 03 September 2017 02:17:48(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post

... in this paragraph is written (and shown at the image), while you enter manually a digital address, you have the choice between MM, DCC, mfx format for setting a direct control address.

This means to me, by setting this direct controll address, you also can specify for the mfx format a direct digital address. But this is then a fixed address and then it looses its mfx character for flexible digital addresses. But with this "address control" you can run your loco. Or I am wrong and misunderstand the text?


I believe the quoted text is incomplete/imprecise.

Personally I interpret the reference to "You can change the address and protocol .." to means you may select a different loco (which has a different protocol/address) rather than edit/change the address of the existing locomotive.

I do not state that the concept of a user being able to set/edit the SID is not theoretically possible, only that I have yet to encounter (on a CS2/CS3 with current software/firmware) a means to do what you describe as a goal of actually changing that address of a mfx decoder.
If you have external experience or some undocumented process on how this may be done, I would be keen to here it.

I have no comment to make on the related implementation on any non Marklin controller like the CS1R, ECoS*,Comander* etc.
The SID is not exposed on the MS1 or MS2


============================================================================================
Yes,
for MM and DCC, this direct access is effectively adding a new Loco to the controller and you can immediately drive it.

An example would be a friend bring a loco to your layout (without a lococard) and indicating that it has a "MM 25" address.
This "direct address access" means you can drive it almost immediately , and as long as you can remember which function buttons perform which function then you do not need to edit the object with icons , an image, a name, a type etc.

If your controller (CS2/CS3) already had a loco with that address, then the icons from that loco will be presented (which may not be accurate) otherwise the default "lamp" icon for F0 will be presented and F1-F15 will show F1-F15.
(If you have multiple existing locos with the same address, the icons from the first one are used - you cannot select)

No,
However for use with an MFX decoder, only a SID of existing loco objects known to the controller will be accepted.
An while you are adding a new loco object it is a mirror of an existing one

If you attempt to enter an mfx SID that is not known you will get ...
UserPostedImage
Peter
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