 Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC) Posts: 498 Location: South Dakota
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Hello everyone! I first want to say that I am so thankful for this Forum. I joined around Christmas time and I have had learned how to service my old 1950's locos and find parts & advice for some of my other Märklin items. Vielen dank, vielen dank! It has been 13 years since I last setup a layout. We were moving every 3-4 years and every time I finished a layout I would have to disassemble it for the move  . So I waited until we were finally in a place we planned to stay. Now I can get started on my layout finally!  My question is - what digital command stations are currently out there? I have read about the CS2 and the new CS3 but have not gone any deeper than that. On my last digital layout I used the Ulenbrock Intelibox, I still have it and she works just fine. But now that I have some new lokomotiven with more functions than function keys on the Intelibox.  I also had used the Märklin TPL software (with the old 3 1/2" disks) on an old desktop. It was good at the time, but I'm not sure if it still is available.  I'm interested in hearing what you are using and any recommendations you have. Thank you in advance! Edited by user 27 May 2017 22:41:01(UTC)
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Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,273
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It depends and how big wally you have.
I recommend ESU Ecos 50210.
But of course does other digital system works good too.
I use Lenz digital plus SET 100 version 3.6 but it support only DCC protocol.
This system is an tradition digital without upgrades and no bugs.
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H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC) Posts: 498 Location: South Dakota
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Thank you Goofy for the quick reply and recommendations.
I have a lot to learn before making this decision. How do I determine which protocol my locomotives use?
Five of my digital locals have the Marklin decoders that came in them from the factory. I have one with the LokSound2 decoder and one with the MFX decoder.
So if I stick with the Märklin DCC format I should be ok. does this sound correct?
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Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC) Posts: 498 Location: South Dakota
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I plan on making a layout similar to this:
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 Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,730 Location: Toronto
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Originally Posted by: White Buffalo  So if I stick with the Märklin DCC format I should be ok. does this sound correct? Hi, White Buffalo: Marklin and DCC are on opposite sides of the track, pun intended.  DCC is 2 rail - Marklin is 3 rail and the two shall never meet. Having said that, my suggestion is to buy nothing for now. Learn more about what you REALLY need or want. Chances are that you will be satisfied with an MS2 that normally gives you all the functions found on the CS2 or CS3 at one quarter of the price. Even better if you get it as part of a starter set. More sophisticated users buy a CS2 or CS3 - but usually they know why they are buying the more expensive controller. The MS2 also works in DCC mode, so if you want to use a digital 2 rail loco you can control it with the MS2 - on a separate 2 rail layout, of course. I do not know if the CS2 or 3 can do the same thing - I expect that to be the case. Hope this helps. Silvano |
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 1 user liked this useful post by baggio
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,442
Location: DE-NW
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Hi! Originally Posted by: White Buffalo On my last digital layout I used the Ulenbrock Intelibox, I still have it and she works just fine. But now that I have some new lokomotiven with more functions than function keys on the Intelibox. Maybe you underestimate the capabilities of the Intellibox. Using two MM addresses you can get 8 functions from mfx decoders. Using four addresses you can get 15 or 17 functions from mfx decoders. You can get an update to version 2.0 - most likely you have to buy it, but maybe you can get it free. You don't really need the update, but it will make accessing more than 5 functions easier with some locos. Gives you up to 9999 functions per DCC address, more than CS2 or CS3 or ECoS support. Maybe just take your Intellibox to the limit before buying something new. The update to version 1.55 should be free if you still have an older version. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
5 users liked this useful post by H0
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 Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand
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Originally Posted by: baggio DCC is 2 rail - Marklin is 3 rail and the two shall never meet. Sorry, that is not correct. While DCC is associated with 2 rail systems and Marklin with 3 rail systems, the fact is you can run DCC locos on 3 rail systems, and (but in reality less likely) mfx and MM on 2 rail. I've been known to run some of my Gauge 1 locos with MM or mfx, and Gauge 1 only uses 2 rails. The important bit is which protocols your controller supports. As a Marklin user is more likely to have mfx locos, I would suggest obtaining a controller that supports mfx as well as MM and DCC. That mainly restricts you to the Ecos, CS2, CS3 and Marklin's handheld controller, the Mobile Station 2 (there may be others but those are the most commonly used). If you are happy with running all of your locos with either DCC or MM, then your existing Intellibox or the newer Intelibox II would suffice. For a small layout as you are proposing, I would suggest you start off with a Mobile Station 2, and look at the other controllers only if you are going to eventually build a bigger layout.
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8 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
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Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 941 Location: Burney, CA
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For what you have planned the Uhlenbrock is OK.
If you start getting MFX Loks, I would next recommend the Mobile Station.
We use Uhlenbrock on the ETE modules, but it's not compatible with all MFX functions or Loks. |
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia |
4 users liked this useful post by mrmarklin
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Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,448 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
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Originally Posted by: baggio DCC is 2 rail - Marklin is 3 rail and the two shall never meet. What absolute rubbish |
Peter
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4 users liked this useful post by clapcott
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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,730 Location: Toronto
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Thank you for your useful comment, Clapcott. Much appreciated. |
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1 user liked this useful post by baggio
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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,730 Location: Toronto
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Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Sorry, that is not correct. While DCC is associated with 2 rail systems and Marklin with 3 rail systems, That is my point. In normal parlance, a DCC loco is 2 rail while a Marklin loco is 3 rail. If one keeps that distinction in mind, even if not completely technically correct, one cannot go wrong using HO gauge. Otherwise, a new user runs the risk of buying an HO DCC loco thinking he can using it on a Marklin layout. |
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand
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Originally Posted by: baggio .......new user runs the risk of buying an HO DCC loco thinking he can using it on a Marklin layout. The point is you can do that, and also that you're making an error in associating the protocol used to a particular track system. Which is where Clapcott's comment comes in (blunt and direct it may be!).
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2 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
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Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC) Posts: 498 Location: South Dakota
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Thank you all for helping me understand this. I should list the digital locomotives I am have. 1. 3770 ICE-3/Märklin decoder/ year 2000 2. A BR 03 Steam locomotive & BR 216 Diesel from starter set 29845 Märklin Decoder - year 1998 3. 37171 BR 52 Steam Lok with 6 functions/LokSound 2 chip - year 1997 4. 37184 BR 18 Steam Lok/ Märkin decoder / year 1997 (nedds repair  ) 5. BR 50 Steam Lok/ESU LokSound MFX decoder with 14 (F0-F13) functions Like mentioned above I can use the Intelibox to run all 6 digital lok's and two delta ones I have. The only thing I can not do is use functions 9-13 on the BR 50. Tom (HO) am I understanding your post (and others) correctly, I can (with the intelibox) assign two additional address' to run functions 9-13? Or do I need to get a Mobile Station as well? If so, that would be great. I assumed I could not since the function sheet that came with the BR 50 said I would need a Central Station or Bobile station to run the additional functions. Here is what I received with the Lok.
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Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC) Posts: 498 Location: South Dakota
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BR 50 Function list:  
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Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC) Posts: 498 Location: South Dakota
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Originally Posted by: baggio
Having said that, my suggestion is to buy nothing for now. Learn more about what you REALLY need or want.
Silvano
Originally Posted by: H0
Maybe you underestimate the capabilities of the Intellibox...........................................Maybe just take your Intellibox to the limit before buying something new. This is were I think I need to focus now. I do not know the full capabilities of the Intelibox. I have only used it to run the Lok's I have and have reprogrammed the sound volume on the 37171 BR 52 Steam Lok Time for a Hefeweisen and start digging in. 
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 Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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Hey, you a have a pehaps old but IMHO still state of the art controller, you will not have touchscreens and nice displays, but with a little patience you can get all out from your locos and planned layout. Just explore the whole capabilities of it before thinking of a new command station. |
 German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
2 users liked this useful post by franciscohg
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Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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I have found an old manual of a Loksound mfx, not at ESU site......as i have understood this old decoder does not speaks DCC, only mfx and MM.
With the second adress it can access up to F8 in MM. With an MS1 up to 9 functions. To access all functions you need a CS, perhaps a MS2. Cannot experiment because the couple of this units i had where burned years ago....lol.
Regards |
German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
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Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,273
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Some older decoder don´t have all protocol to choice.
It´s important that you have digital system which supports all protocol.
DCC /MM/mfx and mfx+
DCC can been use in both 2 and 3 rail tracks.
That´s way i like better with DCC protocol. |
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 1,291 Location: Port Moody, BC
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Originally Posted by: baggio Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Sorry, that is not correct. While DCC is associated with 2 rail systems and Marklin with 3 rail systems, That is my point. In normal parlance, a DCC loco is 2 rail while a Marklin loco is 3 rail. If one keeps that distinction in mind, even if not completely technically correct, one cannot go wrong using HO gauge. Otherwise, a new user runs the risk of buying an HO DCC loco thinking he can using it on a Marklin layout. I believe you are incorrectly mixing up the terms DC and DCC. DC normally refers to a 2 rail system and AC normally refers to an 3 rail system. DCC is a digital protocol and as others have pointed out can be used on either 2 rail or 3 rail systems. Peter
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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,730 Location: Toronto
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Originally Posted by: PMPeter DCC is a digital protocol and as others have pointed out can be used on either 2 rail or 3 rail systems. Except that if one takes your statement at face value without an explanation (usually NOT given), a newcomer to the hobby would think it is possible to buy an HO digital DCC 2 rail loco sold everywhere in US stores and have it run on a Marklin layout. This is obviously not the case. My explanation prevented this, even if technically incorrect. |
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1 user liked this useful post by baggio
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Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC) Posts: 498 Location: South Dakota
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I understand what you were trying to make me aware of baggio. Thank you. It's all good and helping me to relearn Märklin digital systems and components. I did quite a bit of reading in the manual for the Intelibox. Some of it is sticking in my brain, but some of the other items - well, I'm going to need another cup of coffee and a beer afterwards
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1 user liked this useful post by White Buffalo
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Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997
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Originally Posted by: baggio Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Sorry, that is not correct. While DCC is associated with 2 rail systems and Marklin with 3 rail systems, That is my point. In normal parlance, a DCC loco is 2 rail while a Marklin loco is 3 rail. If one keeps that distinction in mind, even if not completely technically correct, one cannot go wrong using HO gauge. Otherwise, a new user runs the risk of buying an HO DCC loco thinking he can using it on a Marklin layout. No you are still missing the point. I run DCC and MM on my 3 rail layout. Trying to equate DCC with 2 rail just confuses people because it is inherently incorrect. |
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4 users liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
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Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997
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Stick with your Intellibox until you find a loco with more than 8 functions that you have to access on a single address.
mfx is overhyped and overrated, and provides you with almost no advantage over what the Intellibox can do, given that it supports both DCC and Motorola at the same time..
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Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC) Posts: 498 Location: South Dakota
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OK, I spent some time digesting the Intelibox menu.
I was able to check each of the 7 digital lokomotiven decoders and they are all running on the "Motorola - New" format. So, at least this simplifies thing for me.
In addition I was able to set Special Option #25 to turn off the DCC signal being sent. It says this will increase the transmission rate of the Intelibox. So far so good, everything is working well.
Next I will try playing with the virtual addresses and extended functions to see if I can get that additional functions on the BR50 Lok with 13 Functions to operate all functions. You guys were right on the mark, I think I can get the Intelibox to do everything I need for this layout.
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1 user liked this useful post by White Buffalo
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,442
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: White Buffalo Tom (HO) am I understanding your post (and others) correctly, I can (with the intelibox) assign two additional address' to run functions 9-13? If it is ESÚ Loksound mfx then you can use one additional address to get 9 functions. With the newer ESU Loksound V4 M4 (M4 is ESU's new name for mfx) you can assign 3 additional addresses to get 17 functions - or use DCC to get 29 functions. You can try addresses 3 and 255 to see if you get a reaction from your loco when you press F1 through F4 for those addresses. The consecutive address if the current address is also worth a try (if it runs with e.g. address 52, try address 53). Originally Posted by: White Buffalo In addition I was able to set Special Option #25 to turn off the DCC signal being sent. It says this will increase the transmission rate of the Intelibox. This may make a difference when using PC control, but it doesn't matter when you run trains without PC control. Don't forget to enable DCC when you buy a non-Märklin loco or a new Märklin loco (many locos of the 2017 new items support DCC). |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
1 user liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC) Posts: 498 Location: South Dakota
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Thank you for the help Tom. I tried address' 3, 255 and 52. I didn't have any luck in getting the additional functions to operate. It's not a big deal to me right now. It's the only locomotive I have that has more than nine functions.
Currently this decoder is assigned two addresses. 50 and 51. And the functions I want are all accessible except for the Telex coupler. I am going to try to reprogram a couple of the functions with thre Intelibox and see how that goes.
The most important part right now, is that I am learning the capabilities and how to use the Intelibox.
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1 user liked this useful post by White Buffalo
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 Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,874 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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just a quick note:
ESU decoders support the Motorola protocol (6021) and by programming an ESU decoder with 4 consecutive addresses which means you can have 12 function activated (not including F0).
I don't know if the Intellibox would support this.
John |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,442
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: river6109 ESU decoders support the Motorola protocol (6021) and by programming an ESU decoder with 4 consecutive addresses which means you can have 12 function activated (not including F0). Not true. With ESU Loksound 2 and 3, there were 2 consecutive addresses. With ESU Loksound mfx there are two independent addresses. With ESU Loksound V4 M4 there are four consecutive addresses. Originally Posted by: White Buffalo The most important part right now, is that I am learning the capabilities and how to use the Intelibox. If the loco has an ESU Loksound mfx, then the secondary address can be set with CV 75. There is a description how to get the decoder into programming mode with the Intellibox, but it is not simple. The German text on the Uhlenbrock site: Uhlenbrock FAQ |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
1 user liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia
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Great, the manual of the loksound mfx show no procedures other than the ones referring to marklin control units. |
German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL |
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Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC) Posts: 498 Location: South Dakota
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OK, I'm just a little confused. Currently this Locomotive has two addresses. 50 (primary) and 51 (secondary). The decoder listed on the Functions sheet is a ESU Loksound mfx decoder. so on this list, I can access F-0 through F-8 with the two assigned adresses (50 & 51). I'm wondering if I can remove one of the functions (F5-F8) on the secondary address and replace it with AUx2 - Telex coupler. I will check the CV 7 value and see what it is set at. I can access the programming mode on the Intelibox and read the CV's. I just need to spend some more time on it.
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,442
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: White Buffalo I'm wondering if I can remove one of the functions (F5-F8) on the secondary address and replace it with AUx2 - Telex coupler. Can be done easily with any Central Station, any ECoS, or the ESU LokProgrammer. No chance with Intellibox or any Mobile Station. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS |
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Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC) Posts: 498 Location: South Dakota
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Thanks River6109 & HO, So far I have learned quite a bit about the Intelibox. I had forgotten a lot over the years. But I am not able to access any of the CV values on the Lok with the Mfx decoder. I just keep getting an error code. Same thing when I tried the programming instructions that HO posted a link to above in post #__. I believe my next step is to update to software version of my Intelibox. I am running version 1.300. I believe this software version is prior to the Mfx decoder. But I'm not sure on that. I can access all the CV values of the BR52 Locomotive with the LokSound2 decoder but am not able to access anything on the Locomotive with the Mfx decoder, yet
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 Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,452 Location: Scotland
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While you are building your layout why not just keep what you have. At a later date you could go for a CS3 when it is known there are no more obvious bugs or if you can get one a CS2 at a good price.
I expect much of your time will be spent just building your layout so leave a final decision on a controller until later. You may well find what you already have does most or all you want. |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
1 user liked this useful post by David Dewar
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Joined: 29/12/2016(UTC) Posts: 498 Location: South Dakota
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Originally Posted by: David Dewar While you are building your layout why not just keep what you have. At a later date you could go for a CS3 when it is known there are no more obvious bugs or if you can get one a CS2 at a good price.
I expect much of your time will be spent just building your layout so leave a final decision on a controller until later. You may well find what you already have does most or all you want. Thanks for the advice David, I definitely should just be patient and slowdown a bit. I can control everything I have with the Intelibox and two Märklin transformers. There is only one Locomotive I have that has more functions than I can access. Currently I have been testing different layouts. From what I remember 15 years ago, I made some mistakes that I wish I could have foreseen. So this summer I'm gonna test various layouts before deciding on a final design. Right now I have two temporary setups,
one M-track with the god O'l DA 800, F800, etc....[list=1] 
one C-track with the digital Lokomotiven:
Then I need a small space for the 3600 series setup 
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1 user liked this useful post by White Buffalo
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