I had in mind to write: You're a bloody idiot but this is beyond insanity

John

/* An apology to Marco is in order here. Marco wrote these comments over two years ago. Whether you "had it in mind" or not, you actually wrote a personal attack. */

Edited by moderator 10 March 2017 23:13:11(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

In response to this, only because I've been quoted;

I made it very clear at the time that such work should ONLY be undertaken by those who are competent and qualified. The dangers have been spelled out by description and with images.

My "how to" posting was an educational post for the benefit of those who are going to do it anyway and the purpose is SAFETY above all else, it's not a "how to commit suicide" process.

There is no shortage of vintage or antique items that run on electricity and enthusiasts keen on restoring them. Radios, TV's, Computers (pre-1960), Kitchen and Catering Appliances, Office Equipment, Clocks, Jukeboxes, Lamps, Power Tools - (now there's a mine-field) and yes, TOYS from many manufacturers and on it goes.

Yet somehow items in all these categories of equipment can be found all over the world giving reliable and safe service PROVIDED they are serviced to current safety standards.

I will add a further recommendation to anyone who wishes to use one of the older Metal-case Trafo's, even if the power cord has been replaced, the internals thoroughly cleaned and closely inspected and the unit has had the case earthed, I would still STRONGLY RECOMMEND the use of an RCD either in the house circuit (ie in the switchboard as is now law), or via Power Strip containing an RCD or similar fast-acting safety cutout device.

The cautions of those who are in the very conservative safety camp are well-founded and I am not playing those down for a second. But as Marco's own experience proved, those Trafo's he purchased could just easily have been obtained by someone (a newbie) who does not participate in forums like this and who purchased the Trafo as part of a well-meaning first train set for a child. We simply cannot reach those people.

But this forum exists for those who do seek further information, and hopefully will take note of all advice given.

What about the layout construction threads?, do we interrogate people about whether they are competent to use the power tools (drills, saws etc) that are needed to drill or cut timber?, they might lose a finger, cut off a limb, send shards flying into their eyes from not wearing safety googles, or stabbing themselves with a screwdriver.

Or loco servicing where a soldering iron is required. Very easy to burn yourself from poor handling yet the assumption is that people already know what they are doing.

Scenery and Painting - there's a risk of fumes.

New Loco purchases, do we ask members if they are financially healthy, whether their wife knows so that we can do our part for marital harmony.....

Yes of course I'm getting facetious now but I hope I'm making my point. Those in the caution camp are quite right with their warnings, and I personally respect each and every one of you for your viewpoint and I mean absolutely NO offence.

I suspect that anyone who is even remotely uncertain around electricity will heed the warnings and simply purchase a new item instead.

For those who are right into their vintage items and collecting, these threads spell out very clearly what should be checked, and how to check it.

Once again, the repairs referred to should only be undertaken by qualified (electricians, technicians etc) and by definition, competent persons.

Steve / Cookee

my apologies I didn't realize it was back in 2015

Very sorry to hear of the tragic loss of your son. Regards, Chris

I have an 'O' gauge set from 1936 with the original transformer and wiring. I never use it without a Leak Protector connected to the wall socket, this is on top of the houses protector.

Thank you for the input on this resurrected thread.

Since you have made a couple of bold statement (in CAPITALS) they will be conveyed as statements of fact, however they deserve further comment.

1: The condition of the line-cord is the PRIME concern. The rubber insulation around the internal wires carrying the dangerous electricity is the main safety problem with these very old devices.

But, because the degraded insulation is enclosed within the outer sheath, which usually remains intact with no obvious damage, it cannot be seen except by exposing it. Usually this can be most easily checked at the plug-end, or, where it terminates within the Trafo. However within the cord, as the rubber disintegrates and crumbles, the internal wires can still short-circuit from handling, and this could lead to burning or damage of the outer sheath = high danger risk.

So the opening up of the Trafo does not further increase the risk, it's already there, but is more obvious or 'dramatic'.

2: The debate about whether to ground the case of the Trafo has been raised many times. Those countries where there are only two wires in the line-cord don't have a choice, unless they wish to use the provided earth-screw on the earlier models, (see image below). Other countries where a 3-pin plug is used do have an earth which makes it easy. Here in NZ, Earth is tied to Neutral at the power board. Grounding the metal case will not normally cause any issues.

I am curious about the statement in the image which says the earth terminal is for use on "stone floors". ? - perhaps the German text provides more information. I note also that the external earth terminal was dropped soon after this. Perhaps it was found not to be an issue in real-life?

If anyone has an original 280A leaflet that came with one, what does that say? Add a scan of it.

If you are a suitably qualified electrical practitioner, don't be shy about it, your credentials add weight to your comment.

Regards

That's SHOCKINGLY SCARY TOO!