Joined: 16/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 301 Location: Grandvaux - Lausanne - Switzerland
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Hi All  Has anyone else had problems with the reliability and operation of the c track double slip switch 24624? So far this year I have had to return SEVEN  where the switch motors have stopped working. I am really pleased with the quality of the other Marklin kit. But these motors just seem to be so unreliable. All my normal points work fine its just the double switches. it starts by one direction not working and then both fail. The double slip has no problem being switched by hand, but this is a pain when its at the other end of the layout. Does anybody have the same problem, is there an easy solution for a non technophobe eg teflon spray ? Tim
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 1 user liked this useful post by Timnomads
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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This is the same problem suffered by most of us with C-track turnout motors. The end contacts on the motors get oxidised and stop the current getting to the coils. There is a way of bypassing the contacts to fix the problem, but one must then be careful not to leave current running through the motor as it could burn out.
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Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 16/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 301 Location: Grandvaux - Lausanne - Switzerland
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Originally Posted by: RayF  This is the same problem suffered by most of us with C-track turnout motors. The end contacts on the motors get oxidised and stop the current getting to the coils. There is a way of bypassing the contacts to fix the problem, but one must then be careful not to leave current running through the motor as it could burn out.
I could understand this if the points were old but the latest one is only about 2 months old and only used for about 8 hrs !
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Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC) Posts: 210 Location: Eslöv, Sweden
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Hi,
I have removed the endswitches on all my switch motors, which then works flawlessly. I only operate them digitally to minimize the risk of burning. Even on new ones I remove the endswitches immediately. As it can be a pain replacing a switch, I suggest to remove the endswitches and if possible, cut a hole underneath the switch so the motor can be replaced without having to break up the track. But to conclude: Since removing the endswitches I have't had a single failure.
/Peder
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 4 users liked this useful post by pederbc
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Originally Posted by: Timnomads  Originally Posted by: RayF  This is the same problem suffered by most of us with C-track turnout motors. The end contacts on the motors get oxidised and stop the current getting to the coils. There is a way of bypassing the contacts to fix the problem, but one must then be careful not to leave current running through the motor as it could burn out.
I could understand this if the points were old but the latest one is only about 2 months old and only used for about 8 hrs ! Funnily enough the less you use them the more problems you get! Some motors never seem to exhibit this behaviour, but those which are going to fail can do so after a couple of months only I will bypass the end contacts on any new motors that I buy, as I have endless problems with many of the ones I have installed on the layout. |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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 2 users liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,597 Location: Spain
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Right. Its as simple as that. Even though I use K-track and not C-track; the problem is the end-cut-off-switches. Bridge them (maybe with a small solder-blob) and end of problem! |
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Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC) Posts: 5,862 Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
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I have done what Ray does to most of my C-Turnouts but some are still OK and I have done nothing to them. Very strange. Peter
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Joined: 16/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 301 Location: Grandvaux - Lausanne - Switzerland
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Originally Posted by: petestra  I have done what Ray does to most of my C-Turnouts but some are still OK and I have done nothing to them. Very strange. Peter Is there a youtube of how this is done - for us non experts
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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,730 Location: Toronto
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Originally Posted by: pederbc  Since removing the endswitches I have't had a single failure.
What exactly have you done? Sorry, I don't understand. Does this problem mean we should really stick to manual turnouts? I mean, these motorized turnouts cost an arm and a leg and if they don't work properly, then... |
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Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC) Posts: 684 Location: London
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Originally Posted by: Timnomads 
Is there a youtube of how this is done - for us non experts
Yes: Carim
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 2 users liked this useful post by Carim
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Joined: 26/08/2012(UTC) Posts: 263 Location: Denver
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Originally Posted by: Timnomads  Is there a youtube of how this is done - for us non experts
Here is the 74490 video link. Click on the link below. 74490 video link |
Mike
Digital - C track with CS2 and Railroad&Co TrainController; feedback using LocoIO via a Locobuffer Analog - M track with solid centre rail (after C track layout is complete) Collect all Eras - especially Crocodiles Member of ETE Previously a member of the Marklin Modellers' Group Johannesburg |
 2 users liked this useful post by MikeR
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Joined: 16/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 301 Location: Grandvaux - Lausanne - Switzerland
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Originally Posted by: MikeR  Originally Posted by: Timnomads  Is there a youtube of how this is done - for us non experts
Here is the 74490 video link. Click on the link below. 74490 video link Thx I shall try this with all future problems, it looks idiot proof
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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,319 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
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Another option is to rig up servo controls for the turnouts, but then thats more electronics needed to drive the servos (non Märklin gear). but once it is running, pretty much failure-proof. |
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Joined: 30/08/2016(UTC) Posts: 636 Location: Brussels
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Originally Posted by: baggio  I mean, these motorized turnouts cost an arm and a leg and if they don't work properly, then... I'm just a newcomer to modern Märklin equipment as I get into the hobby again. But everywhere I seem to read of these problems, apparently of long standing, with Märklin turnout motors. Since childhood I have always associated the name Märklin with reliability. But this ongoing and uncorrected problem with such basic MMR equipment as turnout motors shakes my faith more than a bit. |
I heard that lonesome whistle blow. Hank Williams |
 1 user liked this useful post by Jabez
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Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465
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Originally Posted by: Timnomads  Hi All Has anyone else had problems with the reliability and operation of the c track double slip switch 24624? So far this year I have had to return SEVEN  where the switch motors have stopped working. I am really pleased with the quality of the other Marklin kit. But these motors just seem to be so unreliable. All my normal points work fine its just the double switches. it starts by one direction not working and then both fail. The double slip has no problem being switched by hand, but this is a pain when its at the other end of the layout. Does anybody have the same problem, is there an easy solution for a non technophobe eg teflon spray ? Tim Hi Tim, you are from Switzerland, perhaps this link to "Zugkraft Stucki, CH" helps you, because it is in German written. Märklin Weichenantrieb (railway switch drive)Martin Stucki also describes a solution of this Märklin problem, because even Märklin's solution shall not yet work properly. regards Wolfgang
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Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,774 Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Originally Posted by: Jabez  Originally Posted by: baggio  I mean, these motorized turnouts cost an arm and a leg and if they don't work properly, then... I'm just a newcomer to modern Märklin equipment as I get into the hobby again. But everywhere I seem to read of these problems, apparently of long standing, with Märklin turnout motors. Since childhood I have always associated the name Märklin with reliability. But this ongoing and uncorrected problem with such basic MMR equipment as turnout motors shakes my faith more than a bit. It's because they are still making their equipment backwards compatible with analogue. If everyone ran digital then the limit switches would not be required and we would not have this problem. As others have said, if you bridge the limiters then it should run forever and a day. |
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany |
 3 users liked this useful post by applor
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Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465
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Originally Posted by: applor  Originally Posted by: Jabez  Originally Posted by: baggio  I mean, these motorized turnouts cost an arm and a leg and if they don't work properly, then... I'm just a newcomer to modern Märklin equipment as I get into the hobby again. But everywhere I seem to read of these problems, apparently of long standing, with Märklin turnout motors. Since childhood I have always associated the name Märklin with reliability. But this ongoing and uncorrected problem with such basic MMR equipment as turnout motors shakes my faith more than a bit. It's because they are still making their equipment backwards compatible with analogue. If everyone ran digital then the limit switches would not be required and we would not have this problem. As others have said, if you bridge the limiters then it should run forever and a day. I agree with applor absolutely. But what annoys me, that Maerklin does not open communicate this.  Why not? I think everybody will then accept the problems, which are still there with the digital system. And probably open minded to help solving this problems with Maerklin together. Because this digital system is really a good challenge, but also a great chance and ability for the future of a model railway, coming much closer to the original standards. This brings the fun and pleasure to me. 
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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,319 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
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There was a possibility to solve this in how the digital decoders connect to the switches. They could have designed the switch electrics such that they can know if they are being driven from a digital decoder (using pins on the decoder-swith plug/socket) - and in that case (and only that case) the switch would be electrically operating in a mode that is rock solid for digital operation and doesn't support analog operation. Eg, the switch could get a signal from the decoder plug that tells it its a digital decoder, and it auto-disables the mini switches that are causing the problems and more reliably drives the switch in digital mode.
With such a decoder/plug/keying solution it would prevent the analog operations usage of the same switch part form running without the extent-switches needed to prevent coil burn-out. |
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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I use my turnouts with analogue switches, and I see no reason why the end cut-off switches are needed as long as they are correctly wired to the control box and that control box has the right push-to-make switches. The current will only be present for as long as you have your finger on the button, and that will only be for a couple of seconds at most. I'm sure the motors will not overheat in that short space of time.
The uncouplers are operated in the same way and do not have these cut-off switches. I've never heard of one burning up in normal operation.
Some of the older blue control boxes sometimes stick on, but the buzzing of the turnout motor will draw your attention to it. Ideally these boxes should be replaced with the newer type if they start to stick anyway. |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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 2 users liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,597 Location: Spain
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Originally Posted by: Jabez  Since childhood I have always associated the name Märklin with reliability. But this ongoing and uncorrected problem with such basic MMR equipment as turnout motors shakes my faith more than a bit. Feel free to give up old faith in favour of modern facts ;-) |
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Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,597 Location: Spain
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Originally Posted by: RayF  I use my turnouts with analogue switches, and I see no reason why the end cut-off switches are needed as long as they are correctly wired to the control box and that control box has the right push-to-make switches. The current will only be present for as long as you have your finger on the button, and that will only be for a couple of seconds at most. I'm sure the motors will not overheat in that short space of time. I agree with you, but just want to add that in "the old days", we often used contact-tracks to activate switches and signals. (I even made systems using the uncoupler tracks... ;-) -and that these swithces often failed and closed the contact "permanently". The same could happen if a puko-wiper came to a halt just on top of on of these contacts. SO it oftenh happened that the contact was activated through a loooong time! Yet, as you state, I never had any problem with the relays burning out. So, the quality today is... different! If they could make them then to withstand 16Vac, sure they could design the coils to withstand 18-21V today. But they have decided NOT to do that. |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,463 Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: RayF  I use my turnouts with analogue switches, and I see no reason why the end cut-off switches are needed as long as they are correctly wired to the control box and that control box has the right push-to-make switches. You need the cut-off switches in the turnouts if you have a control box with LEDs - or the LEDs will be always on and therefore meaningless. With bridged cut-off switches you have no reason to get control boxes with LEDs. Control boxes without LEDs can also be used when the cut-off switches are operational. There are turnout decoders with feedback - those also require the cut-off switches to be operational. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
 4 users liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 16/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 301 Location: Grandvaux - Lausanne - Switzerland
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And the next problem,On one of my double switches, the point does not completely close, there is gap when I set the point to curve where the moving part does not end up flush to the static rail. See red :- I am not sure what to do to fix this. The effect is the train derails as various bogies go straight and others make the curve. Does Marklin read this site, I hope so. I would happily give my time to fix these problems. The points are expensive so you have to make a high quality product, these fall along way short of that. Tim
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Originally Posted by: Timnomads  And the next problem,On one of my double switches, the point does not completely close, there is gap when I set the point to curve where the moving part does not end up flush to the static rail. See red :- I am not sure what to do to fix this. The effect is the train derails as various bogies go straight and others make the curve. Does Marklin read this site, I hope so. I would happily give my time to fix these problems. The points are expensive so you have to make a high quality product, these fall along way short of that. Tim Hi Tim, Has this always been the case or did it start doing this at some point after being used? I've found that sometimes a bit of ballast or some other foreign object gets trapped in the mechanism preventing the blades from going all the way over. Use the hand lever to set the point all the way to the affected side and then see if you can see what is preventing the blades from closing. Try using your finger to pull it back against the tension of the spring. Does the spring try to put the blades back? Is there sufficient tension on that spring? Is something stopping the blade physically? Sometimes the action of the turnout is compromised because of a twist in the track. If you have it screwed down try to release the screws and see if you still have the problem. Hope this helps. |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 16/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 301 Location: Grandvaux - Lausanne - Switzerland
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Originally Posted by: RayF  Originally Posted by: Timnomads  And the next problem,On one of my double switches, the point does not completely close, there is gap when I set the point to curve where the moving part does not end up flush to the static rail. See red :- I am not sure what to do to fix this. The effect is the train derails as various bogies go straight and others make the curve. Does Marklin read this site, I hope so. I would happily give my time to fix these problems. The points are expensive so you have to make a high quality product, these fall along way short of that. Tim Hi Tim, Has this always been the case or did it start doing this at some point after being used? I've found that sometimes a bit of ballast or some other foreign object gets trapped in the mechanism preventing the blades from going all the way over. Use the hand lever to set the point all the way to the affected side and then see if you can see what is preventing the blades from closing. Try using your finger to pull it back against the tension of the spring. Does the spring try to put the blades back? Is there sufficient tension on that spring? Is something stopping the blade physically? Sometimes the action of the turnout is compromised because of a twist in the track. If you have it screwed down try to release the screws and see if you still have the problem. Hope this helps. Thanks Ray, I will have a look tonight.
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Joined: 16/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 301 Location: Grandvaux - Lausanne - Switzerland
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Originally Posted by: Timnomads  Originally Posted by: RayF  Originally Posted by: Timnomads  And the next problem,On one of my double switches, the point does not completely close, there is gap when I set the point to curve where the moving part does not end up flush to the static rail. See red :- I am not sure what to do to fix this. The effect is the train derails as various bogies go straight and others make the curve. Does Marklin read this site, I hope so. I would happily give my time to fix these problems. The points are expensive so you have to make a high quality product, these fall along way short of that. Tim Hi Tim, Has this always been the case or did it start doing this at some point after being used? I've found that sometimes a bit of ballast or some other foreign object gets trapped in the mechanism preventing the blades from going all the way over. Use the hand lever to set the point all the way to the affected side and then see if you can see what is preventing the blades from closing. Try using your finger to pull it back against the tension of the spring. Does the spring try to put the blades back? Is there sufficient tension on that spring? Is something stopping the blade physically? Sometimes the action of the turnout is compromised because of a twist in the track. If you have it screwed down try to release the screws and see if you still have the problem. Hope this helps. Thanks Ray, I will have a look tonight. Hi, actually removed the switch yesterday and found a wire fom the decoder was catching the point mechanism, I relocated this wire and a I now hope problem is solved. Thanks Ray
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 2 users liked this useful post by Timnomads
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Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,319 Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
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Always good to secure the wiring in some way. |
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