 Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,730 Location: Toronto
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Hello, Everyone: I am thinking of putting together a Helix with an R1 radius but do not know where to begin.  Some of the questions I have are: 1. Does having a helix put too much strain on locos? Going up a climb seems like a lot of work for a small engine; am I wrong? 2. Is an R1 radius too small? My space does not really allow for any wider helix. 3. How do I actually put it together? I mean, do I go to my Marklin dealer and ask for an already made helix? Somehow, I don't think so. I think I need to put it together myself or I need to have it done for me. Does the Markling shop have the paper "blueprints"? 4. Are K tracks good for doing this? I know that C tracks are. Any problems if I used K tracks? Thanks. |
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 Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC) Posts: 488
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I have noticed in the Model Railroad magazine that there are companies that will construct them for you also there are videos and articles on the internet if you want to try yourself. Any grade will effect the pulling power of a lok and a 3% grade won't be too bad.
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 1 user liked this useful post by SteamNut
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 Joined: 16/07/2015(UTC) Posts: 43
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1 user liked this useful post by Fishman
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Joined: 01/02/2012(UTC) Posts: 70 Location: Toronto
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Baggio,
1) The strain on the loco's is dependent upon the grade (rate of climb), the amount of curvature (curves give more rolling friction than straight sections), and the weight of the wagons you are pulling. In general, less grade is better, fewer wagons are better, and larger curve radii are better. I am building a helix with a grade of 2.5%. My goal was to have a BR85 pull 6 (24 cm) tinplate passenger cars without any wheel slippage. My original design was 3.0% and it was too steep. I am using R5 radii. Next time you are Westend Trains, take a look at the showroom layout. It is using R1 and R2 grades and is very steep. Have Mike do some tests for you with small locomotives.
2) R1 is the least preferred option, but is manageable with lower grades and shorter train lengths.
3) Noch makes helix kits which are very attractive. They are pricey. My helix has 6 loops so the Noch solution would have set me back around $1000 (not realistic). I have build my own. Not difficult really, you need a jig saw to cut the ramps your self. I have used 11 mm plywood (home depot) along with 1/4 inch threaded rod to control the support elevation. ( I would sent a photo but do not know how to attach here.)
4) There is no issue with "K" track. You will need to use 7500 and 7504 for track ground and power supply respectively as your helix probably does not have any straight sections.
fkowal
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2 users liked this useful post by fkowal
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 Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,448 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
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Hi Baggio,
Just some of my thoughts on the subject
A) Re: My space does not really allow for any wider helix.
While most people conceive a helix to be made solely of curved track and of the same radii, consider the option of an oval with progressive curves or even insert straights in one dimension. Anything to allow reduced gradients.
- A related specification here is the height you need - i.e. do you use catenary?
B1) Allow for servicing, and good construction access
- if the track to track height distance does not allow for your hand to get hold of a derailed loco and do basic maneuvering you will be sorry,
- for getting your head and hand/arm up the middle of the helix, eliminate any bulky infrastructure - e.g. use metal rods instead of 4x2's
- getting track laid properly is well worth a bit of extra time, however designing for ease of access to do the work is just as important.
B2) Expect derailments - e.g. of the type caused by a 2nd train rear ending the fist and causing an accordion effect
- this may mean adding some side barrier for protection to prevent items testing their bounce coefficient as they fall to the ground.
- In lieu of B1 - accessibility - it may be worth making the barriers removable.
C) The Entry and Exit slope transitions should never be overlooked - reference the bridge approach diagrams in the Marklin Catalogs.
- Tip. for C-Track, you may make saw cuts across the roadbed from the underside (say 10 cuts per piece) , this will allow for a better curving rather than leaving the gradient change to a kink at the join of track pieces.
- ideally do not start the track curving until the locomotive has all wheels on the main gradient
- maintain a consistent gradient - hyper-elevation may creep in with construction and may assist with draw-bar effort but it has to be extremely well designed if you want max traction with all tires touching the rails.
D) Unlike a straight incline where you can get away with a stiff board and in-frequent pillars, (I believe) a curve/helix should be supported at least once per piece of track. In doing so you need smaller (thinner) supports and may benefit by using 6mm, 4.5mm or even 3mm base board which will better conform to gradient changes while curving.
- suggest cutting track baseboard out of a single sheet (as much as practical) to allow natural conforming of gradient changes.
- work with the board - not against it.
- suggest the width of the base board (where the track sits) be only marginally wider than the track itself (safety consideration of A2 not withstanding) |
Peter
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4 users liked this useful post by clapcott
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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,730 Location: Toronto
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Wow, Clapcott, that is what I call helpful feedback.  You and others have made me realize that there is no way I can do this myself and I will not spend $1,000.00 for a helix. It was a good idea at the time....  Thanks to all.  |
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,232 Location: Montreal, QC
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2 users liked this useful post by mike c
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Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,730 Location: Toronto
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Just now I have had the time to look at the links, wow! That is stunning and not too expensive either. Thank you, Mike. So as to be clear, do I get the whole wood assembled as a package so that all I need to do is add the track? |
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,232 Location: Montreal, QC
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I am not an expert. I think that it can be bought in kits that provide one loop, two loops, etc for single and/or parallel track. The kit contains the brackets that support the helix and the supports to which the tracks are attached. The Noch website should provide more details.
Regards
Mike C
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2 users liked this useful post by mike c
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Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 276 Location: Houston, Texas
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I have been operating a three level marklin layout with a helix for a number of years and would like to offer some words of advice.
(1) building a helix is not difficult and can be done in different ways. The key to making one is to use careful planning
(2) Use R2 radius as a minimum
(3) MY R2 helix has a rise of 3 3/4 inch per each 360 degree loop. This amount of rise is no problem for my marklin trains.
(4) I constructed my helix from 1/4 inch plywood cut into 180 degree segments. The plywood is supported by eight 5/16 inch threaded rods with nuts and washers top and bottom.
Good luck , I had a good time building my helix and expect you will to . but, remember to plan ahead
Tex
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3 users liked this useful post by Tex
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 Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,480 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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My comment about a helix would be as follows: -
If at all possible, when having a twin track helix, arrange the track layout so the outer track is the one that is for the train climbing the helix, and the inner track for the train coming down. This makes the grade for the climbing train ever so slightly less, and the drag due to going around a corner just that little bit less than if it is trying to do the same on the inner track.
It is not always possible to arrange the track layout like this, but i think it makes enough difference to be worth the effort.
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4 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,422 Location: Montreal, Canada
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Hello Gentlemen, As I'd like to make a DIY helix for my next layout, your post got me looking online. An interesting link step-by-step with no video: http://modeltrains.about...Model-Railroad-Helix.htmHowever, there are loads of videos on youtube, of varying quality. Some are fun to see, to inspire: Another takes a basic step by step approach: I've made some rather annoying problems for myself in the simple curved gradient on my last layout.... ....not-so-very-smart idea of banking my curves with a tight industrial M-track radius and making a sloped yard, that required functional sloping catenary over the yard. It does look great though. [I hope to post photos of these someday in another post, as I try to better resolve the problem.] Enjoy! - Mark |
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
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1 user liked this useful post by Mark5
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 Joined: 16/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 301 Location: Grandvaux - Lausanne - Switzerland
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2 users liked this useful post by Timnomads
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Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC) Posts: 694 Location: England, South Coast
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This thread is great, just what I was looking for the other day.
I have limited space for my helix which gives me something of a problem. The helix will have to be round, M 5100 and 5200 radii and I do not think I have enough space to add straights to lessen the incline. I use powered catenary so the height to be achieved in one 360 degree turn is 104.5 mm according to Marklin if I use the catenary posts. However, if I can fix wire to the underside of the helix and dispense with posts this could be reduced to approx 83mm.
Still steep though!
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1 user liked this useful post by Michael4
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Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC) Posts: 635 Location: Sydney
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8 users liked this useful post by Toosmall
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 Joined: 10/12/2024(UTC) Posts: 1 Location: Hovedstaden, Copenhagen
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Originally Posted by: Toosmall  So the catenary system is just for show and has no power?
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2 users liked this useful post by Heilvang
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Joined: 23/10/2013(UTC) Posts: 27
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1 user liked this useful post by jrbburg
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 Joined: 07/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 198 Location: Lindome, Sweden
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Threaded rods, nuts, washers and something like 6 to 7 mm plywood is a good start.
Threaded rods make for an easy adjustment.
For derailing protection, use a medium-soft material like yoga mats or foam camping mats (not the self-inflating type). Glue or tack it down to the sides of the plywood. This will allow you to push the fencing down when handling derailments and not hurt your hands and fingers. It doesn't have to be very high, 3-4 cm above the side of the ply will do.
Keep at least 2-2,5 cm free space outside the track bed on both sides.
The example with a partly visible helix is an excellent use of space and scenery.
I also second the tip with a double-track helix. If you only have the limited space for R1, then make it oval since a circular R1 is just 226 cm in diameter, or consider making a long straight ramp at the back or front of your layout. |
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1 user liked this useful post by LeoArietis
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