 Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Actually, I prefer the "snobby" look of a single headlight. :o) Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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 2 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow  I found another which had only the single headlight, Ms Pennsy set 37624, as below. Nice. Here the real thing. Note the coupler covers on the lead unit, and the Pennsy style roof top induction antenna on the cab units (which the M* version does not have). Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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 Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,764 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow I found another which had only the single headlight, Ms Pennsy set 37624, as below. Nice. Here the real thing. Note the coupler covers on the lead unit, and the Pennsy style roof top induction antenna on the cab units (which the M* version does not have). Hi Ak, The train appears to be all 50 foot milk tank cars. I made my own F7 set, for 2 rail, using Model Power die-cast versions. The antenna were quite iconic, so I added them.  But these units had the double-headlight, and I painted out the lower one. I would like to see a new Marklin version with antennae, especially in 2 rail Trix. regards Kimball |
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge. |
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Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,764 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Regarding Pennsylvania F units. I have not seen before, the photo supplied by Ak of the A-B-A set hauling a milk reefer train. It was taken in 1949, when the lead unit 9522 is about one year old. 9522 is an F3, with an F7 style side grill. The B unit in back, seems to be an F3 with the traditional grill (called chicken style). In order to model these F units, like many other prototype areas, you enter a minefield. Double headlight? Single headlight? That question seems easily answered, compared to details such as number of portholes, grill type, horns, radiator fan types, number board variations, and radio antennae. These details varied across the range of F3 and F7 units. I salute Marklin's ability to research this stuff.  regards Kimball |
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge. |
3 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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 Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,430 Location: Attiki Athens Greece
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I do not think that we will see these antennas in a marklin F7 unit.They are perfect but they will be easy to brake.Anyway i hope i am wrong and we will have in the future a better detailed F7 model.
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2 users liked this useful post by foumaro
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Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,764 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Hi Panayotis,
It may be possible for Marklin to include the antenna "posts" as part of the body shell casting.
If that were possible, it would give them a lot of strength to resist breaking.
Perhaps.
Anyway, I know nothing about the die-casting process, so this is pure speculation on my part.
I made mine using small lost-wax castings for posts (purchased from USA), and then thread fine brass or steel wire.
They are however, quite flimsy regards where they join the body.
regards
Kimball |
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge. |
2 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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And here one in passenger service even without any headlight? ;-) Just a poor scan from "Classic Layout Designs of John Armstrong", photo taken in Villanova, Pennsylvania. Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,430 Location: Attiki Athens Greece
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Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Hi Panayotis,
It may be possible for Marklin to include the antenna "posts" as part of the body shell casting.
If that were possible, it would give them a lot of strength to resist breaking.
Perhaps.
Anyway, I know nothing about the die-casting process, so this is pure speculation on my part.
I made mine using small lost-wax castings for posts (purchased from USA), and then thread fine brass or steel wire.
They are however, quite flimsy regards where they join the body.
regards
Kimball I think you are right.We saw a similar antenna on the roof of the observation wagon of the 26496 Super Chief. 
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 Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 2,533 Location: VA
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Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Hi Ak,
Thanks for that, I was not aware Marklin did both.
I found another which had only the single headlight, Ms Pennsy set 37624, as below.
regards
Kimball Kimball, MTH also makes 3 rail F3 units, MTH part number 8021945 (A+B), 8021955 (A unit), 8021965 (B Unit). It looks like these have double headlights though. -Brandon |
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Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 2,533 Location: VA
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A couple of new ATSF consists for y'all to model: #1 - ATSF passenger service through La Planta, Missouri, 1962 (train unnamed) #2 - ATSF passenger service ("Grand Canyon") at Joliet Illinois, 1962 Note that in both cases there appear to be 2-3 freight cars (I am guessing reefers) between the locomotives and coaches. BrandonVA attached the following image(s): |
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Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 2,533 Location: VA
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You may find yourself in a positions like myself; tons of ATSF EMD motive power, lots of freight cars, and no ATSF coaches (none!). Prefer the 50s/60s as your era of operation? (As opposed to the early 70s where former passenger service EMD units were dumped into the freight pool following the Amtrak takeover). Red warbonnet is for passenger service, right? #1 - Westbound intermodal passing through Joliet, Illinois in 1960, pulled by mighty F7s #2 - Forth Worth, TX, May 1968. Classic M* A-B-A #3 - Westbound freight at La Plata, Missouri, 1962. The rail bridge in the background is Wabash. Nice variety of cars too! BrandonVA attached the following image(s): |
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Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 2,533 Location: VA
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And somewhere inbetween, a Warbonnet powered mail trainat Ottawa, Kansas in 1965. The cars at the head are REA express reefers full of California Strawberries. BrandonVA attached the following image(s): |
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Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 2,533 Location: VA
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And last but not least, if we move to about 1973, it gets easy. Lots of F7 road power goes to the freight pool, while the worst units are leased to Amtrak. #1 - Chicago, August, 1973 #2 - Eastbound out of the yard at Argentine, Kansas, November, 1973 #3 - Year unknown, 70s guessed based on freight cars and conditions of locomotives BrandonVA attached the following image(s): |
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 Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 244 Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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You are right Brandon. This is MTH 80-2115-5 idling. Sorry. You were talking F3s, not F7. Blid blid attached the following image(s): |
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold. |
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Originally Posted by: BrandonVA A couple of new ATSF consists for y'all to model:
#1 - ATSF passenger service through La Planta, Missouri, 1962 (train unnamed)
#2 - ATSF passenger service ("Grand Canyon") at Joliet Illinois, 1962
Note that in both cases there appear to be 2-3 freight cars (I am guessing reefers) between the locomotives and coaches. Here we go again. ATSF red warbonnet F7 ABBBA with silver box cars and passenger coaches? Neither Blid´s nor BrandonVA´s sophisticated MTH loco technology can I match; therefore, I rely on brute delta force (three units powered plus two dummies) instead. The problem is less the lash-up itself, but finding a photo shooting range long enough to show the beast in its entire length. Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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5 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,430 Location: Attiki Athens Greece
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1 user liked this useful post by foumaro
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Rail-Road. :o) (Passadena, California, 1958) Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,263 Location: Hobart, Australia
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Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Rail-Road.
:o)
(Passadena, California, 1958) Guess who gives way at this intersection !! Great image, Regards, PJ
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1 user liked this useful post by PJMärklin
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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This helps me to tell EMD F-types apart. It is not complete, but at least it helps to distinguish between F3 and F7 types, which is my major concern. With below illustrations, all the bull eye and chicken wire talk makes sense to me. :o) Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,764 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek This helps me to tell EMD F-types apart. It is not complete, but at least it helps to distinguish between F3 and F7 types, which is my major concern. With below illustrations, all the bull eye and chicken wire talk makes sense to me.
:o) Hi Ak, Many many many variation in these EMD produced road diesels. Example: The B unit diagram shows the end door with a small square port-hole. Did the A units have a square or round port-hole in the door? We don't know from the diagrams. regards Kimball |
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge. |
2 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Yes, I know. Therefore, I referred to my major concern.
;o) |
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1 user liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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I did some research, and learned (again) something new regarding M* EMD F7 models.
(1) Shell details: According to ModelRailroader October 2006 pg. 60 - 65 drawings, the M* model is a F3 Phase IV / F7 Phase I. Those versions had, inter alia, a rectangular connection door window and a a triangular roof overhang (thus no M* invention). Only subsequently, the connection door window became round and the roof overhang disappeared. For comparison and confirmation, see also: http://www.atsfrr.net/re...funits/pdf/F7-A-Pass.pdf(2) Undercarriage dimensions: I am astonished and positively surprised that - despite common statements - M* F7 models do not fare that bad in comparison with the prototype (let alone competitors). axial distance prototype: 2744 mm 1:87: 31,54 mm Märklin: 34 mm truck distance prototype: 9144 mm 1:87: 105,1mm Märklin:106 mm Length prototype: 15443 mm 1:87: 177,50 mm Märklin: 178 mm Width prototype: 2997 mm 1:87: 34,44 mm Märklin: 36 mm The tolerances are in my view totally acceptable (and impressive given that the M* F7A form stems from the 1960s).
In summary, the model is better than its reputation. Edited by user 06 March 2015 17:00:10(UTC)
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Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,764 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek I did some research, and learned (again) something new regarding M+ EMD F7 models.
(1) Shell details: According to ModelRailroader October 2006 pg. 60 - 65 drawings, the M* model is a F3 Phase IV / F7 Phase I. Those versions had, inter alia, a rectangular connection door window and a a triangular roof overhang (thus no M* invention). .....
(2) Undercarriage dimensions: I am astonished and positively surprised that - despite common statements - M* F7 models do not fare that bad in comparison with the prototype (let alone competitors)......The tolerances are in my view totally acceptable (and impressive given that the M* F7A form stems from the 1960s).
In summary, the model is better than its reputation. Hi Ak, Great find. I agree that Marklins research for their models is salutary. Across their whole range. As you say, even back to the 60s. regards Kimball |
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge. |
2 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow ...it appears that Santa Fe had both single and double headlight versions of the F units... Indeed Santa Fe had both. "Pure" freight F-types had only a single headlight; and Santa Fe freight F-types had - to put it simply - blue bodies with yellow "goggles"... Detected an excellent photo to illustrate the difference between ATSF EMD F-type passenger (left) and freight (right) color schemes and headlight arrangements. (Bellville, Texas on 04 September 1971) P.S.: ATSF 335 was geared for dual service, either passenger or freight. Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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 Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,481 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow ...it appears that Santa Fe had both single and double headlight versions of the F units... Indeed Santa Fe had both. "Pure" freight F-types had only a single headlight; and Santa Fe freight F-types had - to put it simply - blue bodies with yellow "goggles"... Detected an excellent photo to illustrate the difference between ATSF EMD F-type passenger (left) and freight (right) color schemes and headlight arrangements. (Bellville, Texas on 04 September 1971) P.S.: ATSF 335 was geared for dual service, either passenger or freight. Wonder why they wanted an extra plate with the road number under the head light of the freight loco.
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Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,764 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan
.......Wonder why they wanted an extra plate with the road number under the head light of the freight loco.
I will try to find out from my local ATSF experts. regards Kimball |
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge. |
2 users liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Originally Posted by: BrandonVA You may find yourself in a positions like myself; tons of ATSF EMD motive power, lots of freight cars, and no ATSF coaches (none!). Prefer the 50s/60s as your era of operation? (As opposed to the early 70s where former passenger service EMD units were dumped into the freight pool following the Amtrak takeover). Red warbonnet is for passenger service, right?
#1 - Westbound intermodal passing through Joliet, Illinois in 1960, pulled by mighty F7s
#2 - Forth Worth, TX, May 1968. Classic M* A-B-A
#3 - Westbound freight at La Plata, Missouri, 1962. The rail bridge in the background is Wabash. Nice variety of cars too!
Tried my best... Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Originally Posted by: foumaro Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Very nice and close to the prototype. :o) ATSF sample consist - January 1954 #18 Super Chief, Los Angeles-Chicago: Baggage-Mail Railway Post Office (LA to Kansas City) 10-6 Pine Sleeper 10-6 Pine Sleeper 4-4-2 Regal Sleeper 4-4-2 Regal Sleeper Dome Lounge (Dome to rear) Diner (Kitchen to front) Dorm-Lounge 10-6 Pine Sleeper (San Diego to Washington, D.C. via B&O, ended 10/55) 10-6 Pine Sleeper 4-4-2 Regal Sleeper 4-4-2 Regal Sleeper Observation Source: https://www.walthers.com/exec/page/super_chief Thanks for the info.Now i know i can add the the 2818 and 2862 coaches to the train to run Super Chief-El Capitan train. Hi Foumaro, Actually, the El Capitan coaches of the examples by Walthers were hi-liners, thus double-level coaches. However, there is always an excuse. :o) In 1958 the Super Chief was combined with the El Capitan and also started featuring coaches during peak travel seasons. During high demand, the train ran in two separate sections, an El Capitan one and a SC one. On such an occasion, the SC rooster in summer 1968 showed four chair cars (= coaches) - see screenshot (source: http://santafe.gmbus.com). But then again, observation cars were dropped for good in 1956... :o( Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Dear Foumaro, In case you are looking for a prototypical excuse for a separate long-distance passenger train - running the double-headed ATSF PA consist (or alternatively a EMD F7 A-B lash-up) with only two coaches and one or two baggage cars - the Grand Canyon in 1967 would be good - see screenshot (source: http://santafe.gmbus.com/).Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,430 Location: Attiki Athens Greece
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Your help is much apreciated,thank you very much.Let's hope marklin give us more wagons to make closer to the reality trains.
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek ...double-headed ATSF PA consist ... with only two coaches and one or two baggage cars... Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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A serious yet often humorous look at what happens if Santa Fe railroad employees don't do their job correctly. |
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4 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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 Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ
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Glen
Auckland NZ
" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !
CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider |
3 users liked this useful post by NZMarklinist
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Maerklin HO US-style layout. |
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Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,430 Location: Attiki Athens Greece
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Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Nice but the starting price is a bit high.
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,481 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: foumaro Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Nice but the starting price is a bit high. Just remember that is NZ$, not US$. NZ$ is worth quite a bit less.
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1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek In case somebody intends to criticise the M* consist (of course that would never happen in this forum  ): A historic photograph of ATSF engine # 305 pulling the Super Chief (10 cars) in 1951 near Castle Rock, Colorado. It is an ABB F-unit configuration with a single baggage car. Source: http://digital.denverlib...earch/searchterm/OP-2241 And here F7 ABB sister engine # 304 hauling the Super Chief on Raton Pass, this time with two baggage cars (probably 1x baggage and 1 x RPO). Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,430 Location: Attiki Athens Greece
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So we need two or three sleeping cars from marklin.I hope they are reading the forum.  
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1 user liked this useful post by foumaro
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Not to forget the dorm-lounge and RPO (and sleeper variant(s)): "The 1951 Super Chief typically consisted of a baggage car, RPO, 600-606 series diner, 500-505 series dome lounge, 1339-1344 series dormitory lounge, Vista series observation, and six to eight sleepers build by American Car and Foundry, Budd and Pullman Stadard." [sic] Source: http://www.atsfrr.com/re...offman/Super%20Chief.htmI helped myself by mixing Maerklin and Frateschi (27 cm) passenger cars. |
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Does not say "PRR" in the thread title, but I post this anyway. ;o) "According to the description, the river is the Conemaugh and the location is about 6 miles (10 km) west of Johnstown, Pennsylvania. The four track mainline is in the foreground and across the river is the Sang Hollow Extension Branch." Source: http://transpressnz.blog...road-art-circa-1950.htmlAlsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Does not say B&O in the thread title, but I post this anyway. ;o) Referring to this post showing the B&O RR Columbian pulled by EMD F3 units at Harpers Ferry in 1949: https://www.marklin-user...rototype.aspx#post488997Contrary to my prior belief that the B&O employed only EMD E units for passenger service, I noted that F units were used, too. Thus, in principle the Maerklin B&O F units (art. 37618) could be used for passenger service, too, e.g., pulling Frateschi made Pullman coaches in the livery of the Brazilian Cia. Paulista RR (http://www.frateschi.com.br/site/?page=carros-pullman) which is close to the B&O paint scheme. Ignoring the "excess" EMD B-unit and hoping to have caught a B&O consist without Strata Dome car service, I present below an artist´s perception of a pragmatic consist. :o) Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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B&O prototype passenger consists pulled by EMD F3 A-B units. Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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3 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Do multiple EMD F-units and a turntable go together? Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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3 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,764 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Do multiple EMD F-units and a turntable go together? Hi Ak, Yes, as an A-B set, a turntable is necessary. regards Kimball |
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge. |
1 user liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Mea culpa: I did not express myself clearly. I meant to comment on the fact that the A-B set hardly fits on the turntable. E.g., the M* 37618 B&O F7 A-B-B combination - prototype photo below - would be left out in the cold here. Either uncoupling and shunting or a turning wye would be required to turn it. ;o) Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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4 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek ... Ignoring the "excess" EMD B-unit and hoping to have caught a B&O consist without Strata Dome car service, I present below an artist´s perception of a pragmatic consist.
:o) As the consist pic is very small, here a "focus" on the loco and the first two coaches, to better demonstrate the paint scheme. Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Still difficult to view. Enlarge: Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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2 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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SP Black Widows anyone ? Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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So far, so good. Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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2 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 5,854 Location: Hybrid Home
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Hélas, what is the ardent M* modeler missing? Alsterstreek attached the following image(s): |
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3 users liked this useful post by Alsterstreek
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