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Offline ice 1  
#1 Posted : 21 January 2015 13:35:54(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
Hi
I was testing my HAG RE460s with my new MS2 I didnt know the Address of some so i just used the MS2 Find feature for them all and works great.
But my problem is on 3 HAG RE460s with Sound i put the loco on the track and the MS2 cant find anything when its searching that happens on the 3 of them and there is nothing else on the track but 1 loco at a time.These locos have been in storing but so have the Marklin and they all work fine so any ideas whats the problem as each loco was only ran once before when i got them and in storing since is this an ESU Problem as everything looks fine wiring wise.
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 21 January 2015 18:52:54(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,346
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

I don't know what the problem is.
Very unlikely that all three decoders died.
Are these three-rail locos? Configured to take power from centre rail?
Which decoder socket do the locos have? Maybe you have another loco with the same socket and can swap decoders for a test.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Webmaster  
#3 Posted : 21 January 2015 19:52:04(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,133
Do these have a switch as Märklin locos to take the "red" from the pickup shoe or from the pantographs?
I think this is what Tom means by "configured". If so, make sure it is set right. Maybe you need to switch
back & forth a couple of times since there might be some oxidation after a long period of storage.

I don't know if you can read CV values with the MS2, but CV1 gives the primary address of the loco
and if it's a LokSound decoder, there is also a Märklin MM address CV - just don't remember what CV that was...


I am not 100% sure on how the MS2 MM address detection works, but if it works like it did on the good old IntelliBox
the addresses 1-255 are cycled through and current is measured from the track. In short, at the correct address
there is some current & voltage between the "red" rail and the "brown" rail since current is passing through the motor.

With the Intellibox, this was a problem with some decoders and then you had to wire a 4.7k-5.6k (ie about 5k) resistor
between the "red" and "brown" on the track to get a reading at all. I remember ESU LokPilots decoders needed this.

Another thing that may mess up address detection done this way is if there are long acceleration times set, so the
motor does not get enough voltage within the measuring period.

And of course as usual - clean the wheels, pickup shoe & rails. Long storage does tend to oxidize metal and put a "micro film" on metal.


Just my 2 cents...

Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Online mmervine  
#4 Posted : 22 January 2015 02:16:05(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,826
Location: Keene, NH
Also, if there is anyone nearby with a lokprogrammer, they can test the ESU decoders for you.
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
Offline mike c  
#5 Posted : 22 January 2015 05:36:01(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,264
Location: Montreal, QC
Most digital Hag locomotives either from the factory or digital conversions are delivered with the standard address '03'.
Have you tried manually creating a locomotive entry with the address '03'?
The Lokprogrammer scans the settings of the decoder and this reveals the address of the decoder. The MS2 and CS2 work on the same principle. The time it takes to detect the decoder is the time required to read the decoder data and enter it into the database.

A quick question to start. Other than the MS2, do you have a track section that you can connect to a regular AC transformer (analog)? If yes, do these locomotives work on that track? That would eliminate problems with the locomotive. If the locomotives do not respond to analog, then you should check the locomotives, beginning with the screw that selects track vs catenary for power supply. If that does not solve the problem, you will then need to open the locomotive to inspect the wiring.

If the locomotive does work in analog, then the problem is likely with the MS2. The MS2 has a memory capacity of 40 locomotives, but 11 can be accessed directly from the main panel. If you already have 11 locomotives in those spots, you will have to delete one or two to make room for new ones. If you are at capacity, the MS2 would basically refuse to recognize any new locos until you had cleared space for them. This was one of the features of the 6021 that I liked, that you could access any address for 80 locomotives directly from the keyboard. Hopefully Maerklin will release a new CS2 that has a keyboard functionality as well.

One way to test whether this MS2 limit may be the cause of the problem is to see whether you can add other locomotives than the Hag sound locos to your MS2. If they also fail, then it is likely due to the 11 spots being full. If you can add the other locomotives but not the Hag, then it must be a communication issue between the MS2 and those particular decoders.

Here's another thing you can try. press shift + wrench, scroll down to "enter manually", press the adjacent button. select loco type (MM2 Coding Switches for 6080/6090) and MM2 Programmable for Lokpilot/Loksound. Select '03' as the address. Enter name as MM TEST and confirm. See whether the locomotive responds (direction/movement). If yes, you can then edit the settings to add the functions (lights/sounds) and personalize the details (image, name, etc).

Some times, if the last loco was Motorola, the MS2 can hiccup if the next decoder is set to DCC only. I like having the additional ESU Lokprogrammer, because even though I cannot modify non-ESU decoders, I can read the data including address and manufacturer, and I can also test the functions using the driver's cab feature. I have also used the Lokprogrammer to save the files for my ESU equipped locomotives (OEM and conversions) and this has already helped in at least two cases where decoders were fried or unresponsive and I was able to load the original settings onto ESU replacements which cost less than the official replacements from the manufacturers.

I hope that this info is of use and helps guide you in the right direction.

Regards

Mike C
Offline ice 1  
#6 Posted : 22 January 2015 09:35:18(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
Hi
I got out my Mobile Station 1 this morning got the feeder track section working ref 24088.
I also find the Mobile Station 2 feels alot more solid and better built than the MS1 which is good to be able to say.
I went into loco 36330 on the database and into edit loco so by useing the change address function i got 2 HAG RE460s back to life but the 3rd one no joy but im sure its nothing to serious but must be bad enough when this failed.
But i know im planning to put sound in 2 more HAG RE460 locos im goin to use Marklin MFX Decoders please dont tell me ESU make them to im goin to make it my mission to avoid ESU as all Marklin locos worked fine and were stored just as long or even longer so for once im not knocking Marklin actually well done Marklin.
I have sent ESU an email about this happening but im sure i wont hear back or else be told oh its out of warranty hard luck,

Edited by user 22 January 2015 17:06:00(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 24 January 2015 09:55:13(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,346
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ice 1 Go to Quoted Post
im goin to make it my mission to avoid ESU as all Marklin locos worked fine and were stored just as long or even longer so for once im not knocking Marklin actually well done Marklin.
Märklin used ESU decoders from about 2004 until about 2011 - so maybe some of your "well done Marklin" locos have ESU decoders.

Originally Posted by: ice 1 Go to Quoted Post
I have sent ESU an email about this happening but im sure i wont hear back or else be told oh its out of warranty hard luck,
No direct warranty for factory-installed decoders.
Contact HAG for warranty (I don't know if "New HAG" accepts warranty claims for locos from "Old HAG").

Any ESU decoder (even factory-installed ones) entitle you to get new ESU decoders at a reduced rate from them.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline mike c  
#8 Posted : 25 January 2015 23:31:07(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,264
Location: Montreal, QC
I have found that ESU has a very good tech support online. They were able to help me when I had questions. www.loksound.eu

Most ESU decoders are preset to MM (Motorola) address 03. Hag digital models usually are delivered with that address as standard and it is usually noted either on a little sticker on the box or inside the instruction book that comes with the locomotive.

I would not recommend using Maerklin MFX decoders in a Hag locomotive. Your best bet would be either ESU or Zimo. ESU does offer MFX Loksound decoders that work well with Maerklin.

You should consider buying a Lokprogrammer. It comes in very handy and also has a useful test function that can be used to test functions on almost any decoder. The only drawback is that you can only program ESU decoders.

I have a few older Hag locomotives that did not come with ESU decoders. I think that one was Digitraxx and the other one just says Hag on the box and the decoder is wrapped in white shrink wrap (no label). Those cannot be remotely programmed the same was as ESU or others. I think one has a button on the decoder that has to be pressed and then it enters programming mode. The other one is a complete mystery. The installation was done by Herr Alther at Hag.

I did not understand why the instructions tell you to go to loco 36330 and not to create a MM and/or DCC locomotive with address '03' which can then be accessed for any locomotive with that address.

You state that you have a MS2 and a MS1. Do you also have an analog transformer or 6021 digital?
For future reference, make sure you record the digital address, either on the box, on the instruction booklet, or on your computer. I have an excel file that lists all my locos, the model #, road numbers and corresponding addresses.

Regards

Mike C
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 26 January 2015 08:15:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,346
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I did not understand why the instructions tell you to go to loco 36330
That's one ref. number that works even with old MS1 software versions. Surely not needed with newer controllers or even updated MS1s.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline ice 1  
#10 Posted : 30 January 2015 12:43:24(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
Hi
Just to let you know its over a week now and heard nothing back from ESU.
I got a Marklin MFX Sound Decoder put in a HAG RE460 before and all worked fine.
I just on a personal level dont want to use ESU anymore its not the first time i emailed ESU and heard nothing back so F them pure and simple its my money my choice
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by ice 1
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