 Joined: 31/10/2014(UTC) Posts: 21 Location: CALIFORNIA, CLAREMONT
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bought a simple M-strack layout locally. It has two wires running to the track. The transformer has female receptacle for plugs but there are are no plugs on the wires. Do I need plugs? Where can I get them?
I apologize for having to ask such a simple question.
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Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC) Posts: 783 Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
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yes, i would use the marklin plugs. don't try sticking anything else in there because you may go too deep and hit high voltage (120v). the later blue transformers had threaded posts with knurled nuts (similar to the old lionel type) where you didn't need the plugs. i wonder if this change came about when too many kids stuck coat hangers etc. in there and got a real thrill! either that or the train went extremely fast. i looked quick on ebay, they got hundreds of em or start calling hobby shops dealing in euro-trains. mike. |
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning . |
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Joined: 31/10/2014(UTC) Posts: 21 Location: CALIFORNIA, CLAREMONT
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Originally Posted by: analogmike  yes, i would use the marklin plugs. don't try sticking anything else in there because you may go too deep and hit high voltage (120v). the later blue transformers had threaded posts with knurled nuts (similar to the old lionel type) where you didn't need the plugs. i wonder if this change came about when too many kids stuck coat hangers etc. in there and got a real thrill! either that or the train went extremely fast. i looked quick on ebay, they got hundreds of em or start calling hobby shops dealing in euro-trains. mike. Where to buy plugs? Or should I just take them off another piece of m track?
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 Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 3,478 Location: Holland
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ebay, mrr shops, mrr shows, swap meets.... Here in Holland the plugs are € 0,10 each, recently I used > 100...  |
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Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 3,443
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Your connection track should look like this. Color red indicates positive current,color brown indicates negative current or earth. You can use other colors,as long as you remember what is what. I suppose you have a blue metal transformer? If yes,colors red and brown (and yellow) are indicated at the female connections. Yellow is for light bulbs. NS1200 attached the following image(s): |
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare). |
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Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 3,478 Location: Holland
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Or like this: red = train, yellow = lights, green = points, signals ...  |
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 2 users liked this useful post by kweekalot
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 Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 3,994 Location: Paremata, Wellington
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Originally Posted by: analogmike yes, i would use the marklin plugs. don't try sticking anything else in there because you may go too deep and hit high voltage (120v). the later blue transformers had threaded posts with knurled nuts (similar to the old lionel type) where you didn't need the plugs. i wonder if this change came about when too many kids stuck coat hangers etc. in there and got a real thrill! either that or the train went extremely fast. i looked quick on ebay, they got hundreds of em or start calling hobby shops dealing in euro-trains. mike. Just a suggestion, you could easily secure the wire into the sockets (as a temporary measure), with wooden toothpicks. Strip off about 5mm of the wire sheath, twist the exposed wires to make them more rigid, push into the correct socket then push in a toothpick to wedge the wire. Easy-peasy. Even though wood is non-conductive, there are no exposed high-voltage windings that could be contacted anyway - for one thing they are coated in lacquer, secondly the high-voltage windings are actually the inner core of the trafo, the outer windings are the low-voltage ones so even if you did contact them with something conductive, there would be no danger other than a possible overload. But I suggest the combined thickness of the wire and toothpick should be just about perfect until you can get the correct plugs. Hope this helps Cookee |
Cookee Wellington  |
2 users liked this useful post by cookee_nz
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Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC) Posts: 783 Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
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hi cookee; i agree with you that the odds of getting "whacked" using something other than plugs is are very small. however, i have learned THE HARD WAY in my years as an in-home appliance repair technician; anything you tell the customer to do by themselves; bad things can happen. so in the interest of safety i always recommend using the correct part. i would feel terrible if someone got hurt because of my advice. be safe. mike |
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning . |
1 user liked this useful post by analogmike
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 Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Originally Posted by: kweekalot Or like this: red = train, yellow = lights, green = points, signals ... Wow, this must be really old! I've never seen seperate sockets for lighting and solenoid accessories. What is the difference in the output between the green and yellow terminals? I thought all accessories Marklin made were designed to run off 16V AC? |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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1 user liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 3,478 Location: Holland
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Originally Posted by: RayF
Wow, this must be really old! I've never seen seperate sockets for lighting and solenoid accessories. ?
Old ?? No my 280A is not old, I guess most m-u members are the same age. She was in the Marklin program from 1949 to 1960. We use her daily, after 65 years she is still in perfect working order. There are many enthusiasts who find the 280A the best transformer ever made by M. and certainly the best looking one. She has this cool 1950s industrial look. Originally Posted by: RayF
What is the difference in the output between the green and yellow terminals? I thought all accessories Marklin made were designed to run off 16V AC ?
Back in de day the old 00 solenoids required a higher voltage, 20 volt instead of 16 volt.      |
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3 users liked this useful post by kweekalot
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Joined: 31/10/2014(UTC) Posts: 21 Location: CALIFORNIA, CLAREMONT
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Originally Posted by: NS1200 Your connection track should look like this.
Color red indicates positive current,color brown indicates negative current or earth.
You can use other colors,as long as you remember what is what.
I suppose you have a blue metal transformer?
If yes,colors red and brown (and yellow) are indicated at the female connections.
Yellow is for light bulbs. This is interesting because in the US, BLACK is the color of the live positive wire. In school one learn that if you touch the BLACK wire, that's the color your mother will be wearing. RED is the color of a secondary LIVE wire, such as in in a 220 curcuit (household curcuits are normally 110 v). Green is for GROUND everywhere else: EARTH). There's a Marklin dealer not too far away in Pasadena, California. I can call to see if they sell plugs. Thanks for all the suggestions. Can someone suggest a mail-prder supplier in the US that carries parts?
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Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC) Posts: 783 Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
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try jan at toto trains.com, if he don't have em he should know who will. a real nice guy. i purchased many pre-owned loks from him. i was always satisfied. be patient it's his busy time of year. mike. |
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning . |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,443
Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: analogmike yes, i would use the marklin plugs. There is a little problem: Märklin stopped selling suitable plugs years ago. 2.6 mm banana plugs are an industrial standard and you can get them from e.g. Brawa or Conrad - or old stock from Märklin. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Quote:Old ?? No my 280A is not old, I guess most m-u members are the same age.
She was in the Marklin program from 1949 to 1960.
We use her daily, after 65 years she is still in perfect working order.
There are many enthusiasts who find the 280A the best transformer ever made by M. and certainly the best looking one.
She has this cool 1950s industrial look.
Marco, I don't want to spoil your enthusiasm for everything old, but I have to disagree with you. Any piece of electrical equipment that carries mains voltages and that is over 60 years old should be handled with extreme care, and I would not allow children anywhere near it as the insulation inside could be at risk of breaking down at any moment. Let's not over-romanticise what is just an electrical transformer. In this case 65 years old is old. It should be replaced with an equivalent but safe modern power supply as soon as possible. By all means keep it as an antique for display, but I urge you not to use it. |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Joined: 31/10/2014(UTC) Posts: 21 Location: CALIFORNIA, CLAREMONT
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Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: analogmike yes, i would use the marklin plugs. There is a little problem: Märklin stopped selling suitable plugs years ago. 2.6 mm banana plugs are an industrial standard and you can get them from e.g. Brawa or Conrad - or old stock from Märklin. 2.6 banana plugs! I can get them at Radio Shack. Thanks
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Joined: 30/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 121 Location: Allegany
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The place I goto for wire,plugs and lights is gps97 great prices and free shipping link http://znhotrains.com/
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Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 3,443
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Originally Posted by: df1965 Originally Posted by: NS1200 Your connection track should look like this.
Color red indicates positive current,color brown indicates negative current or earth.
You can use other colors,as long as you remember what is what.
I suppose you have a blue metal transformer?
If yes,colors red and brown (and yellow) are indicated at the female connections.
Yellow is for light bulbs. This is interesting because in the US, BLACK is the color of the live positive wire. In school one learn that if you touch the BLACK wire, that's the color your mother will be wearing. RED is the color of a secondary LIVE wire, such as in in a 220 curcuit (household curcuits are normally 110 v). Green is for GROUND everywhere else: EARTH). There's a Marklin dealer not too far away in Pasadena, California. I can call to see if they sell plugs. Thanks for all the suggestions. Can someone suggest a mail-prder supplier in the US that carries parts? What is the color of the wires connected to the rail you have there? |
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare). |
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Joined: 09/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 589
Location: The Netherlands
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With a good earth-leak protection I would not worry using a 60 years old electric appliancy (my heart is still working, knock wood).
I have a Temsi transformer of that era which is also still working. |
C and M track; CS1R and 2 MS |
1 user liked this useful post by hemau
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 Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 1,291 Location: Port Moody, BC
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"What is the color of the wires connected to the rail you have there?"
What df1965 is describing is the colour coding of the 120 VAC standard wiring, not the Low Voltage model train colour code wiring. The colour coding of the LV wiring for a M transformer for example is the same as elsewhere.
Peter
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Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 3,478 Location: Holland
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Originally Posted by: hemau With a good earth-leak protection I would not worry using a 60 years old electric appliancy You are right about that !  I just bought 4 280A's in one deal for my next project. |
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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An earth leakage protector will do nothing if the case is improperly earthed and becomes shorted to the live wire. Then it will only disconnect the supply when the current is detected flowing through you.
If you are willing to take the risk, or have had the transformers tested by a professional for safety, then by all means enjoy the feeling of nostalgia.
Me personally, I value safety over nostalgia.... |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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1 user liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 3,478 Location: Holland
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Ray, I studied mechanical engineering in the 1980s and worked all my life in indoor ornamental fish farms with water and 230 Volt wiring all over the place, so I know the risk of electricity. Some of the wires were even 15.000 Volt to start up the sodium HPS lamps above the bigger tanks. I live in a house built in 1930 and even the meter of the electricity company that supplies electricity is from the 1950s. 90% of my 230V wall socket are from the 1950s too and don't have a ground connection at all and lots of neighbors still have the original pre war black bakelite plugs and switches. Just last week I received a letter that they will replace my 1950 electricity meter in the near future for what they call a smart meter, which is BTW a measure of our government to get a grip on the many illegal pot farms which are a huge problem in our cities. I see hundreds of hobbyists on the German forums that still use the prewar black transformers and they are not all stupid, on the contrary. The last two years members of this forum often had huge discussions about the safety of these old blue transformers and one thing is sure that people think different if it's OK to use them or not. Marco  |
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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I don't want to interfere. If you feel safe that's fine. I just feel it's my duty as a Chartered Electrical engineer to point out the dangers of old wiring.
My own experience with my 1958 Marklin transformer was that it suddenly blew the fuse violently on switching it on one day. When I investigated I found that the original black mains cord was totally perished in the unseen part inside the transformer casing. Luckily the live cable had shorted to the neutral, blowing the fuse, and not to the metal casing, potentially killing me or my son. I replaced the cord with a new one made of modern synthetic material which does not perish, but anyway I replaced the transformer for daily use with one of the new white ones for extra safety.
You should be concerned with the safety of your house wiring too, but then that's your business. |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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2 users liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 3,478 Location: Holland
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The only transformer I blew up in my life was the new white one, it first start making a buzzing sound for a week and then you could see lots of sparkes flashing inside and a burning hole in the plastic. And I could now even open it without using a drill.
The first thing I do when I buy such an old blue transformer is replacing the cord with a new vintage-looking cord, but I keep the old plug.
I got 230 volt shocks more than 50 times in my life, even with my feet standing in the water, but it was never fatal.
But in 2006 I lost my 35 years old friend Danny Winkels who was electrified in his fishfarm`Waterweelde`here in The Hague, his father and brother saw it all happening. Danny was under 380 Volt for a couple of minutes, he was multiple times reanimated on the spot but died a few hours later in the hospital. Danny was besides a fishfarmer a qualified electrician as well. |
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1 user liked this useful post by kweekalot
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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I'm sorry to hear that.
I have also received some electric shocks during the course of my career. It's not always fatal, but it is always unpleasant. |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,226 Location: Montreal, QC
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I think that most people who get zapped while using Maerklin either have two transformers connected at the same time and an unplugged transformer is outputting 120/230V at the wire end or the shielding on the wires of old transformers has worn out. I have not heard about anybody poking inside the transformer, but if you see somebody playing with an old transformer and the red light starts to dim, you should check it out right away.
@df1965, there are a number of dealers within 40 miles of you. Each one should be able to get the plugs for you. If you can't travel, try Eurorailhobbies.com, AJCKids.com, Reynaulds.com or Euromodeltrains.com. They can all ship them to you.
Regards
Mike C
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Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC) Posts: 3,994 Location: Paremata, Wellington
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Cookee Wellington |
1 user liked this useful post by cookee_nz
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Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 3,443
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Originally Posted by: PMPeter "What is the color of the wires connected to the rail you have there?" What df1965 is describing is the colour coding of the 120 VAC standard wiring, not the Low Voltage model train colour code wiring. The colour coding of the LV wiring for a M transformer for example is the same as elsewhere. Peter
Peter,
df1965 was making a comparison between the wires of a wallsocket or lightpoint in the house as compared to the wires used by Marklin.
Some matters are so obvious that it is almost painful to try and explain them.
How are you to explain that water is wet or that the Pope is catholic?
A Marklin transformer has a cable with plug,fit for a wall socket.
That leaves two low voltage cables to be connected from track to transformer,and the Marklin colors for those are red and brown.
And yes,the Marklin colors are different as compared to high voltage cables in the house,for obvious reasons.
Surely, one is not trying to connect high voltage cables from wallsocket to transformer,or what?
Beats me.
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Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare). |
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Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 1,291 Location: Port Moody, BC
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Originally Posted by: NS1200 Originally Posted by: PMPeter "What is the color of the wires connected to the rail you have there?" What df1965 is describing is the colour coding of the 120 VAC standard wiring, not the Low Voltage model train colour code wiring. The colour coding of the LV wiring for a M transformer for example is the same as elsewhere. Peter "Peter, df1965 was making a comparison between the wires of a wallsocket or lightpoint in the house as compared to the wires used by Marklin. Some matters are so obvious that it is almost painful to try and explain them. How are you to explain that water is wet or that the Pope is catholic? A Marklin transformer has a cable with plug,fit for a wall socket. That leaves two low voltage cables to be connected from track to transformer,and the Marklin colors for those are red and brown. And yes,the Marklin colors are different as compared to high voltage cables in the house,for obvious reasons. Surely, one is not trying to connect high voltage cables from wallsocket to transformer,or what? Beats me. "
Beats me as well why df1965 started explaining North American 120 VAC and 220 VAC house wiring colours. Since you asked the question regarding the wire colour for tracks I thought I would explain that it is the same as elsewhere and that the two colour coding scenarios were not an apples to apples comparison.
Merry Christmas
Peter
PS - Not sure why when I reply with quotes it only shows part of the original message in quotes, not the rest.
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Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 3,443
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Peter,
df1965 has kept radiosilence ever since,i gave him the basic pictures and then there was silence,strange. |
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare). |
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