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Offline elsleuth  
#1 Posted : 01 March 2011 18:15:43(UTC)
elsleuth


Joined: 23/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: ,
Hi, Is it possible to run a 7051 crane digitally? Kent in Ca
Offline Nielsenr  
#2 Posted : 01 March 2011 20:25:20(UTC)
Nielsenr

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Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
I don't have one but I looked in my 07421 Electrical manual. They show how to hook up the crane in analog but no diagrams for how to hook up digitally. The newer 76500 Gantry Crane and the 76510 Coaling Station have decoders built into them. My guess is you could acquire a decoder and "kit bash" digital control of the 7051. Maybe someone here on the forum has done that. Good Luck!!

Robert
Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 01 March 2011 20:27:56(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,871
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Didn't they make a special digital module for controling the crane?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
User is suspended until 24/11/2846 07:19:16(UTC) Bigdaddynz  
#4 Posted : 01 March 2011 20:43:19(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,778
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: RayPayas Go to Quoted Post
Didn't they make a special digital module for controling the crane?



Yes, it is the 7651 module. Since the 2 motors on the crane look like they are SFCM motors, I hear it is also possible to drive them with delta decoders, or even lokpilots.


Svein gave some details on how he did this in the following thread:

https://www.marklin-user...px#post161293#post161293
Offline sprogger  
#5 Posted : 01 March 2011 22:32:19(UTC)
sprogger


Joined: 18/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 119
Location: Sydney, Australia
The 7651 is actually the digital version of the 7051 crane...

Marklin did produce a digital conversion kit Item 7652 that could be fitted to the 7051 (screws into the base) ..

I had a quick look on ebay.de and could not see any .. might be worth checking with some of the german dealers

Cheers
Sprogger
Offline oz_train  
#6 Posted : 01 March 2011 23:53:28(UTC)
oz_train

Australia   
Joined: 10/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 265
Location: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Hi Kent, All,
I used an old delta decoder. What I did was to control a relay with the "function" output (f0) of the decoder. The relay switches the motor output of the decoder to either the slew or hook drive motor. In that way, you only have to enter 1 address for the crane, and control either of the 2 axes by using the f0 output. I also added a small (blue) LED which is activated when the hook motor is selected, so that there can be no doubt about which axis is about to move! The slight downside of this approach is that only 1 axis can be driven at a time, but the upside is that you don't need to punch in 2 different addresses to alternately control slew and hook. And the variable speed is a delight!

regards,
John.
Offline sudibarba  
#7 Posted : 02 March 2011 00:10:18(UTC)
sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
Originally Posted by: elsleuth Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Is it possible to run a 7051 crane digitally? Kent in Ca



I see all the responses and am sure you can do something fairly easily.
My question is why do you want to do it? Are you planning to set up some kind of automatic operation with a CS2 or a computer?
Eric
Offline elsleuth  
#8 Posted : 02 March 2011 15:36:54(UTC)
elsleuth


Joined: 23/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: ,
Yes I am planning on running my set from a computer. This is a very low priority in the overall plan but I knew someone out there would have the answer. Thanks for all the ideas. Kent
Offline DaleSchultz  
#9 Posted : 02 March 2011 16:14:13(UTC)
DaleSchultz

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Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
The digital version of the crane is plain silly. It only allows one action at a time. To make it work as one would expect one needs to add a second decoder, and if we can add one we can just as easily add two....

I added a second decoder to the crane and I show the changes here: http://layout.mixmox.com/1/digital-crane

I am now able to control the crane from the computer, slewing and raising the hook at the same time...

If you use an Intellibox to drive your digital layout - you can download and use my software for controlling the crane too...
see http://bw.mixmox.com

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline xxup  
#10 Posted : 02 March 2011 23:07:08(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,611
Location: Australia
Pure genius.... Cool

This will be a neat project when I am retired at the end of this year... I have a few (actually lots) of delta decoders..

Slightly off topic.. Do you have a solution for wiring a delta decoder into coaches so that I can switch lights on and off?
Adrian
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Offline oz_train  
#11 Posted : 02 March 2011 23:15:03(UTC)
oz_train

Australia   
Joined: 10/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 265
Location: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
The digital version of the crane is plain silly. It only allows one action at a time. To

Actually Dale, I beg to differ... maybe if you control your crane via computer (and where's the fun in that?Confused) it makes sense to have 2 decoders, but if you have a humble 6021 and constantly need to punch in 2 addresses to control the 2 axes "simultaneously" (and in reality still only one at a time!), then it soon loses its appeal.
regards,
John.
User is suspended until 24/11/2846 07:19:16(UTC) Bigdaddynz  
#12 Posted : 02 March 2011 23:55:41(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,778
Location: New Zealand
Apart from Delta decoders, you could probably also use some PD101 decoders, which can directly drive an AC motor, but also have switchable function outputs.

http://www.pd101.com/e/pages/index.asp
Online Ross  
#13 Posted : 03 March 2011 02:03:39(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 945
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi elseuth,

Yes it is possible to control the crane digitally. I have copied pages 172-173 from the "0308 Getting started with Marklin Digital"

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

Please note that you should use a 6083 decoder and not a 60830 as the switching transistors have better power specifications.

Originally Posted by: elsleuth Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Is it possible to run a 7051 crane digitally? Kent in Ca

Ross
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Ross
User is suspended until 24/11/2846 07:19:16(UTC) Bigdaddynz  
#14 Posted : 03 March 2011 02:50:48(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,778
Location: New Zealand
Since I have 2 7051 cranes, I guess I can use the other set of K83/K84 outputs to control the 2nd crane.

BTW, there's a complete English version of the 0308 book??? That's something I did not know. I have a PDF scan of it in German, and a Word document with a partial English translation, but pages 172/173 in the Word doco are still in German.

Thanks Ross.
Offline DaleSchultz  
#15 Posted : 03 March 2011 03:27:35(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Originally Posted by: oz_train Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
The digital version of the crane is plain silly. It only allows one action at a time. To

Actually Dale, I beg to differ... maybe if you control your crane via computer (and where's the fun in that?Confused) it makes sense to have 2 decoders, but if you have a humble 6021 and constantly need to punch in 2 addresses to control the 2 axes "simultaneously" (and in reality still only one at a time!), then it soon loses its appeal.
regards,
John.


well sure differ if you like... but here is my reasoning...

the way they configured the crane you had to select different functions to make it slew or raise the hook. So any type of manual operation needed continual stopping, punching numbers, trying to remember which way the motor is going for the 'other axis' etc. completely unfriendly. Plus the fact that only one axis could be active at any time. Very boring.

Now, had they used two addresses they could have allowed you to use two controllers and have something which is usable manually.

Where is the fun in computer control...? perhaps you assume that the computer does everything - no, what I have is a powerful/richer control interface allowing the manual operation of the crane in a clear and predictable manner... E.g. you want it to move up and to the right, move up and right., just down, move down and keep it in the middle. One can use a joystick or keyboard arrow keys too...

Using a 6021 is using a computer, it is just a crappy interface to a 2-axis movement.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline DaleSchultz  
#16 Posted : 03 March 2011 03:33:32(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post

Slightly off topic.. Do you have a solution for wiring a delta decoder into coaches so that I can switch lights on and off?


just wire up the function outputs to the lights - oh wait delta decoders dont all have switchable functions... in that case use the motor output and then you can set the speed to control the intensity. This is exactly what I did for the light at the end of the tunnel...
http://layout.mixmox.com/1/tunnel

If you have an old 6080 decoder with one output - you can create a stationary decoder... I used this to power some signal LEDs in my S-Bahn tunnel
http://layout.mixmox.com/1/stationary-decoder
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Offline xxup  
#17 Posted : 03 March 2011 04:54:30(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,611
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post

Slightly off topic.. Do you have a solution for wiring a delta decoder into coaches so that I can switch lights on and off?


just wire up the function outputs to the lights - oh wait delta decoders dont all have switchable functions... in that case use the motor output and then you can set the speed to control the intensity. This is exactly what I did for the light at the end of the tunnel...
http://layout.mixmox.com/1/tunnel

If you have an old 6080 decoder with one output - you can create a stationary decoder... I used this to power some signal LEDs in my S-Bahn tunnel
http://layout.mixmox.com/1/stationary-decoder


Thanks Dale.. The coaches currently on the layout have LED lighting so it sounds like a better option is to find a cheap decoder that can switch the lights on and off..
Adrian
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#18 Posted : 03 March 2011 16:48:37(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
if they already use LEDs also consider simply letting them stay on, they are not consuming much digital power and no heat...
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline oz_train  
#19 Posted : 04 March 2011 00:04:01(UTC)
oz_train

Australia   
Joined: 10/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 265
Location: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
Using a 6021 is using a computer, it is just a crappy interface to a 2-axis movement.

Whatever. I like my 6021. I don't think it is "crappy"Angry .
Offline DaleSchultz  
#20 Posted : 04 March 2011 16:18:40(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Originally Posted by: oz_train Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
Using a 6021 is using a computer, it is just a crappy interface to a 2-axis movement.

Whatever. I like my 6021. I don't think it is "crappy"Angry .


John,

I did not say the 6021 is crappy.

I said that it is a crappy interface to a 2 axis system. You have one knob to drive two axes.
It is like saying a screwdriver is a crappy tool to remove hex nuts - does not means that screwdrivers are bad tools.

I am quite happy for you to control you 2 axis crane with a single axis controller. Have fun.

Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline elsleuth  
#21 Posted : 23 April 2011 01:02:25(UTC)
elsleuth


Joined: 23/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 171
Location: ,
Thanks everyone, very helpful. Elsleuth
Offline rodLinar  
#22 Posted : 20 October 2014 00:17:40(UTC)
rodLinar


Joined: 01/05/2014(UTC)
Posts: 14
Location: BUENOS AIRES, Caital federal
Hi all ,
To connect a Crane digitaly to a MS1 MS2 CS1 CS2 or 6021, you can use a RLT1410 manufactured by Trenes Digitales.

www.trenesdigitales.com

this is the ebay link

http://www.ebay.com/itm/...&hash=item2591944f13

Regards
Rodrigo
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by rodLinar
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