Hi All

As some of you know I got my layout up just in time for Christmas (still have Photos to post of the final assembly) Christmas 2012 Layout

The layout is essentially three independent loops with trains stopping and starting at the station yards. Two of the three track loops have the loco's run digitally (MS1) the third is totally analog. All the signal blocks are controlled in an analog fashion with circuit tracks (with the little flippers). The layout is c-track.

I have had quite a time with the flippers sticking on the circuit tracks (some even brand new that I needed to return). There have been circuit tracks that have been working fine for 3-6 hours a day for many days only to fail the next day and stick.

I have been pulling my hair out trying to fix them.

I think I have come upon a solution finally.

The circuit tracks seem to have two micro switches that are depressed by the flipper (one in each direction) and for some reason the spring loaded microswitches cannot always 'flip' the flipper lever back and the micro switch continues to be depressed and keeps sending out an impulse jamming either the signal it controls or the track turnout switch it controls freezing it in that state/position.

Upon carefully taking the circuit track apart and tinkering, I have come to the conclusion that on some of these flipper switches the friction of the flipper lever moving is to much for the small spring loaded micro switch to over come and return to the neutral position.

My solution has been to gently loosen the brace that holds the flipper in position making the flipper lever easier to move.

So far I have taken a couple of the sticky circuit tracks off the layout, loosened this brace and put them back where they are now functioning Ok. Only time will tell if this is a long term solution.

Below I will post photos of what I did

Laxman

The first photo is the bottom of the c-track circuit track ( 24994 straight circuit track ). It has been deconstructed. You can see the two braces in the upper left and the filipper lever in the upper right above the track. The flipper lever sits in the groove in the bottom of the track in the hole in the circuit board. The little micro switches sit under the circuit board (between the circuit board and the track--not seen in this photo). The two braces fit onto the two horizontal black plastic areas with the two small holes (one on each side of the groove that the flipper lever sits in). It is these two braces that I loosen up to allow the flipper lever to move easier.

Note--to do what I did, you DO NOT have to deconstruct the circuit track like this and remove either the braces or the flipper lever.

Now you will cut 4 very small strips off a regular 4 x 6 inch file card (I used a blue one)

Coming in from each side you will slide two strips under the end of each brace--(between the brace and the circuit board)

Gently press the braces down sandwiching the two strips on each side between the brace and the circuit board. This will have the effect of raising the brace up off the flipper lever (lying in its groove) and allowing it to move more freely and easier. The braces with the two strips will now hold the circuit board down.

Laxman,

Thank you for a good report

I have also been frustrated by the stickiness of the flipper switches.
Especially when the track is fixed to the base board and you have to lift the track up to do the maintenance.
I have 15 of these flipper switches around the layout, and also don't want the solenoids to burn out.
(the new solenoids for turnouts have shut-off mechanisms so that they don't burn out, but I have some 7039 signals which have older solenoids which will burn out if the flipper gets sticky)

I have tried to place some model railway oil on the flipper, just the moving part where the flipper moves and needs to return.
Just a drop of oil seems to work the trick. I know it is placing oil on plastic, but that is just that !
After placing the oil, I turn the track back up and run my finger over the flipper several times, and then they seem to be fine.

I shall employ your tactic on the next sticky one, and report back here !

Regards,
John

I hope it works, I haven't had much problem with C track but the ones for M are a nightmare. Personaly I just don't use them these days, I preffer reed switches or to use a current sensing device, imo they are by far more reliable.

Hi all,
Well,contact tracks can resolve some of these issue,...

Other:Multiple sliders/shoes can complicate the issues
Teflon lubricant can help.How/where the circuit track is attached/where is located can also effect it's function.
Why not use NO-OX,it is both a grease and is eclectically conductive


Dr D

p.s. you can get a ampule off eBay for $3.99!

Dr D

Thanks for the tip about the NO-OX. I will look into it.

With regard to contact tracks, I have a question (concern/worry?) with use on my analog/digital layout.

I am pretty sure that the constant impulse from a short contact track would not damage either my viessmann realy or c track turnout motor (they both seem to have shut off mechanisms and the impulse while much longer than a circuit track flipper switch would not be more than a couple of seconds as the train rolls over it) I do have a question about mixing the grounds.

Currently, (from something I read several--5 years ago or so) I have the digital track wiring completely separate from the the analog signal wiring. In the past they said to even keep the grounds separate because of the chance of a short frying the MS. I use the MS1 control track via its transformer for the digital track wiring.

I have a separate M transformer that I use the yellow and brown outputs to control the analog system of switches/relays etc. The old regular way of switches, signals etc with the blue and yellow wires and the brown common ground to complete the circuits. So, therefore, on the circuit track I have disconnected the ground wire from the O terminal of the C track (as shipped from factory) and connected it back to the common brown ground wire on the M transformer. The other blue wire of the contact track goes to the Viessmann relay and connects with the yellow from the M transformer to complete the circuit and switch the switch/change relay etc.

If I use a contact track in this instance, would I have to connect the common brown wire from the separate M transformer to one side of the rails of the contact track and the blue wire to the other side rail since the digital tack ground is not a common ground? If I do this is there a chance of shorting and frying either the MS1 or a decoder?Would I then be sending a non-digital ground into the c track from the separate M transformer?

Laxman

Thank you Laxman.

I have the same problem, and use a more complicated solution. To put a thin brass plate in the gap under the braces.
Yours is more easy.

I think the problem is the position of the flipper axle related to the microswitches levers.
With yours or mine solution you change that position.
Besides, the flipper axle section is square, and it should be round, to spin more free. I filed the axle to make it round

Regards

I use circuit tracks to measure the speed of my locos. This works fine even at 300+ km/h scale speed.

So maybe the problem is with the electronics of the Faller level crossing, potentially requiring a longer contact than a fast loco will give on a circuit track.

Hi Steve,

I am wondering if your Teflon dry film spray on the K track circuit tracks is still functioning properly? I have 5, 3 used and 2 never used right out of the box that are sticking in one direction only. I can get a Dupont Teflon Lubricant spray locally, but they have changed the formula so that they have had to remove the "Dry" from the label. For a dry wax film they recommend their chain lubricant spray which is Teflon plus other substances such as moly. Not sure if that will do the trick or not.

Cheers
Peter

Steve said : So far I remain happy with the result, and although at present they only need to sense one direction, they are very positive and spring in both directions for when I complete the Digital conversion and go to tw-way operation, but I have to surmount the electrical problem of having decoders and the switches both powering the signals/turnouts without the feedback issue I first encountered. That is one of the 'projects' I was hoping to have a play with during the holidays once I have some other things out the way.


Steve,

What is the Feedback Issue which you describe above ?

Regards,
John

Hi John, the problem relates specifically to the s88 module, it was discussed previously but I can't find the topic now.

What I had hoped to do was to leave the layout wired as it originally is for analogue operation, but overlay digital control as and when I need it. That way I can display the layout on the one hand as it left the factory, all original but only running to a pre-set basic stop/go sequence across the three ovals, and all trains running forward only.

Adding in digital would allow bi-directional running, and some more fancy route control to add variety.

There are the normal blue push-button boxes wired to control all the signals & turnouts, as well as several contact track sections in parallel which operate selected signals and turnouts.

I can add k83 decoders in parallel to the existing wiring and everything works ok so that I have control analogue and digital.

The problem is when I want to add an s88 to monitor the contact tracks to allow operation by PC, or other automated route-control.

Wiring the contact track directly to the s88 input does not work because there is leakage through the solenoids etc which gives the s88 a false activation.

To electrically separate the systems would require a fair bit of re-wiring to put selection switches in for each contact so that it is connected to either the magnet accessory, or the s88, but not both. Not hard in itself, but I was really searching for a solid-state solution which I could leave permanently connected and which would 'block' the unwanted feedback. Initially I hoped it may be as simple as a diode but alas, not so.

I need to draw out the circuit as this would make it easier to follow but it is easy to replicate just using a contact track, a signal and an s88. If I can make the solution work for one s88 input it should work for all.

In saying that, I have run it past some fairly switched on electronic minds and a simple solution has not yet been found. Opto-isolaters were suggested and this may be one solution, but I don't know enough yet to implement that as a possibility.

And before anyone points out the obvious, I am aware that leaving the wiring as it is means that the contact tracks would still activate the magnet accessories when I really probably want that control left to the k83 when under digital control.

But that was not causing a problem in what I was trying to achieve originally because I was still happy for the contact track to control the signals (and I'd monitor the signal state via the feedback) but there was some other electrical issue that came up and was sort of related but it's been a couple of years since I was playing around with that and the specifics of the issue have escaped me for now. I'm sure I shall be reminded when I get back into it.

Hope my description makes sense to you.

Cheers

Steve