I have a Märklin Krokodil (#39563) engine and it is having problems picking up power from the track to drive the motor. All functions are working (whistle, lights, etc). Last week it started going into reverse on its own. I checked the voltage on the track and ran all my other locomotives no the track and everything looks good.

Any suggestions on where I should start looking????

Thanks !

Janne

A couple of brain cells just came into play … now that I remember; I did notice speed changing quite frequently prior to it jumping into reverse last week.

Thanks for responding. If you hear of anything; let me know and I will do the same.

Hi again,

I cleaned the wheels and the small leading and trailing wheels were a bit dirty. When I started to just run it all was fine. But after around 30 seconds the same problem started again. Locomotive runs very silently but it looks bad when it "jerks". I put sounds on and when it does that it don't affect sounds. It seems like there is a motor power supplying problem (decoder defected?).

I have put a few drops of oil to all axles and I have done the same thing to my other Crocodiles also. Could that oil cause this kind of running behaviour?

It is not so nice to own a over 400 euro loco (as new) and have such a bad running experience . It will soon become my display case "queen" only as I bought it from eBay Germany and don't have a receipt for warranty, if I remember right. I have to check this out... And it is the other Crocodile with full sounds. Black new generation one is the other.

Janne

I don't know and I don't have a spare decoder. Maybe someone else knows if it has this 21 MTC connector?

Looking at the diagram confirm that it is a plugged decoder just like Tom said.
After checking that your axles are not overoiled, you can try with another's loco decoder you may have, or just order an mSD and try.....i think they are cheap enough to be used for diagnostic procedures

But just plug an mLD will work for testing ( around 30 euro )......and if the decoder is faulty replacing it with an mSD cost around 60-70 euro, if it is not under warranty perhaps it is the best option since you would have to pay the decoder and shipping....and at least my experience with M service was not the best.....3 months to get my CS2 fixed....

mmmm, gets a little more complicated the testing procedure.....decoder still at the 60-70 euro range.

ohhhhhh, never succeeded to stop smoking and drinking....but i am absolutely away for that unhealthy overoiling practice....

Hi all,

Don´t get me wrong... I have not put too much oil to the axles. I oil them only when there is coming some noise telling me that axles are too dry. And I put just a very small drop of oil per axle with Faller oil with VERY thin needle. I have bought some locos second hand which were swimming in oil and that is not the case. Traction tyres were also very loose in those locos, because over oiling getting on them makes them very loose....

Lights are not flickering, only loco runs bad. I have to check the decoder type later. I have also a 29680 starter set green Mfx Crocodile with SoftDrive Sinus motor (same as 39563?) road number 14307. Then there is two 31860 brown Mfx Crocodiles which may also have same type of decoder? All these three others have only whistle sound and not full sound. Black Crocodile is also Mfx and has the same full sounds, but it has two motors and may have a different decoder? If the decoder is a plug and play type with some easy connection I could test my 39565 Crocodile with another Crocodiles decoder, BUT I´m afraid to damage the decoder and/or motor or electronics .

Cheers,
Janne

Thanks from help. I will see later with better time how the decoder looks in 39565 and see from 39563 if it looks the same and test it. I will let you all know the results when I get it done... maybe later today in the evening. I hope that I don´t burn any electrics though

Cheers,
Janne

Hmmmmm, have you checked the 39563 for any short? Also maybe the board that is deffective....
Also, dont know about those specific decoders but....did you ever reset them?
It may worth to take a look on the CS2 if the are setted for a C-sine engine.
When i first put a mLD on the 26610 the running was very jerky until i checked and set it for c-sine motor
Cheers

Hi again,

I think that the reason why 39563 has no more red tail lights is that the same function in 39565 is for engine sound. Maybe when 39563 decoder was put in 39565 and controlled with 39563 loco object (because of it's decoder) the same function output gives more current? and broke something in the electronics. Just my thinking...

I also made a reset to the decoder and took of the plastics from the bottom of the 39563 and there was not too much oil there when I got a better look. But at the motor side there was a big amount of grease and I took a bit of it off. Then I put it back together and tested it. Now it runs pretty well and there is mostly problems in only certain speed levels, not all. I also noticed that the problems occur much more often on straight track sections and not in turns. This was the reason why I opened it up.

But as I said now it is for some reason much better and only bad running at certain speeds. Maybe it helped when I opened up the hoods and center part again if something did a short circuit or similar, who knows?

Next I will do the same things to 39565 to see if I can improve it's running also. I did a test run also with C-Sinus motored brown 39561 to see that there is no problems generally and track is ok. It runs like a dream!

I will report how it goes with 39565 if it's running improves or not.

Janne

Just to show I am not blowing smoke up your behind.

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/blow+smoke

This picture shows some of my conversions. All in the picture are 21 pin MFX decoders. Each bag has one decoder and possibly a Marklin 8 ohm speaker that was replaced with an ESU 4 ohm speaker. It may also contain the 1.5 x 1.5cm "squawk box" sound board. I have not lost a single decoder in any of these conversions. In all cases pins 17 and 18 are the motor. Pin 14 is aux 1, pin 13 is aux 2, pin 12 is aux 3 and pin 4 is aux 4. front lights are 8 and rear are 7. aux common is pin 15. It is this uniformity that makes it impossible to damage a decoder by swapping it into another loko. The pin outs are all the same, I have not rewired any loko except perhaps to add a speaker. You may get mixed mapping, but you won't damage the decoder. Before I bought the ESU decoder tester I would have to use trial and error to find what aux was wired to which loko event (front light, rear light, interior lights, changeover slider, sinus drive?). Now I plug the MFX decoder into the tester and press the Marklin icons on my ECoS. Now I know that red light on the Swiss Krocs is under say aux 2 and I no longer need trial and error to figure it all out.



This is what I call a "squawk box" from a loko with rudimentary sound. The loko does not have a sound decoder. It has just a standard MFX decoder. Aux outputs are used to input or tickle the auxiliary sound circuit board (sound files are there) and then the board directly drives the speaker. These lokos have only a couple sound options, horn and bell, or horn and whistle. They are very basic. This is Marklin # 39121. When I upgrade to an ESU LokSound, I document Marklin's installation so I can go back to original if desired. Like if I should sell the loko, there is no other reason to go back.




As you have probably determined, I have no use for Marklin's MFX decoders.

Hi Matt,

Thank you very much! Now I understand even more of these digital decoders. If you don't need your Märklin Mfx decoders and sound circuits + Märklin 8 ohm speakers you can send them to me here in Finland... I will pay the shipping costs . Just a joke .

I opened up my 39565 and it seems like some axle oil had mixed a bit with the grease in the motor gears. I cleaned it up a bit and also took some oil off from non powered end. From the visible axle and it's bushings. It helped it's running very much. Before it ran ok only at higher speed levels without jerking. Just opposite than 39563 which ran before worse when speed level was higher. Now this 39565 runs ok at lower speed levels also, but unfortunately it still jerks at around 70 % speed level. Not much above that or much less than that. But again like 39563 only at straight sections of track and not in turns.

This just makes me think if there is a small grounding problem or still too much oil in axles. I have also a 33081 Delta DRG BR 85 that has bad running in straight track sections and works ok in turns. Other locos are running just fine mainly. Hmmmm..... There is some similarities in Swiss Crocodiles and BR 85 like frame that moves to enable them to turn better.

Now it is time to sleep before I have to wake up and go to work. This was a very interesting evening/night and I learned a lot of new things.

Thanks once more Matt from your help and explanations!

Cheers,
Janne

Ray,

I have had locos for 50 years now and never ever had to oil them once a week under any circumstances. you may have a salt problem living in Gibraltar. mind you I'm happy as Larry since I've added ball bearings

John

Janne,
Another thing to try might be to put a LoPi decoder into the two lokos. With the LoPi you would have a low cost decoder to test the motors and the four aux functions. You will not get sound, but that's no big deal since sound comes directly from the decoder to the speaker. I could create a simple map that I could e-mail you and it could be loaded into the decoder with LokProgrammer, or you could write the CVs with your own loko controller.

Edit: Out of curiosity I opened my LokProgrammer file for the ESU decoder I have in my 31859 brown Kroc. This I believe is identical to your 39563 Kroc. Simple sound functions and sinus drive. I also got the MFX decoder I removed from that loko and put it on my ESU decoder tester to confirm what I was seeing. Aux 2 and 4 are constantly on. They are not controlled by any function button, nor the direction of travel the decoder is set to at any given moment. Usually (not always) aux 4 is the aux needed for sinus drive power. With this loko it appears 2 and 4 are used. The red marker light is under aux 3. Aux 1 is probably the output to the squawk box whistle. I forgot to test that function button. This is all probably different than the aux function mapping for your 39565 loko. That may only need aux 4 to power the sinus drive. Now you are understanding the frustration I had working out these decoders when I did not have the ESU decoder tester.

I would get a LoPi decoder, configure the 4 aux outputs to four function buttons so you could individually pick combinations to try and test how well the loko runs with it. This could prove or disprove the bad running is a fault of the Marklin decoders. There are a few other settings needed with sinus drive lokos, but they are simple and I could list them too if that is how you would like to proceed. 64614 is the LoPi V4 decoder that is 21 pin and also MFX compatible. I am not sure what controller you are using, but if it's Marklin, an MFX compatible decoder would then be my choice.

Also check and make sure the ribbon cable from the motor is secure in it's plug on the motherboard. I had one that was loose and the loko ran poorly. There is a catch or release on some plugs that will cause the cable to not make good connection. I remember the event, but not the exact fix. Mine was loose on the one that ran so badly.

With some locos that have El Cheapo sound modules, one AUX may always be on to provide minus to the sound module. I have this with one of my BR 151 Märklin models.

An amplified AUX that is on will give 0 V (minus pole) while an unamplified AUX that is on will give 5 V. mfx locos with (Compact) C Sine need 5 V for the driver board, supplied by AUX3 or AUX4.

Matt,

Thanks from even more info. Yes, I think that 31859 or 31860 Mfx brown Crocodiles with whistle sound are technically the same as 39563 green Crocodile. So the problem is then maybe with decoder aux 3 (pin 12)? or the wire etc. after that or circuit board. I really don´t want to swap any decoders anymore when both 39563 and 39565 are now running better, but not 100 % perfect. If I would have the knowledge that you have from decoders and ability to program them and test them I maybe would do some further tests. I can check again the ribbon cables from both locos later, but if I remember right I checked them yesterday. So maybe if I would buy a normal Märklin Mfx decoder my 39563 red marker light could work again. Or if the decoder is ok and something else is faulty it does not help then. I can live without red marker light, but it is a nice function when Crocodile runs without cars. I have a Märklin CS2 60214 as my main controller. I have also an Control Unit 6021 for my lower level (separate) tracks under main layout and for loco programming purposes.

Cheers,
Janne

Hi,

I just called my Finnish Märklin dealer. He has a basic Märklin Mfx 21-pin new decoder from 29710 starter set diesel that has been converted to sound Mfx decoder as new. I will get it for only 5 euros! I will buy it and some new pick-up shoes etc. If it is not the correct type to this 39563 Crocodile it can be used to some other locos as a spare decoder.

Cheers,
Janne

The decoder from 29710 is an fx decoder of the 60760 type, not mfx. If your SDS loco requires AUX4 to be always on then you won't have much fun with this decoder. SDS locos also require decoder load regulation to be disabled - another requirement that can't be done with that decoder.

Hi Tom,

Thanks for information. It can be then a spare decoder for my 29710 diesel. I remembered that it was Mfx, but it is not. Still cheap for 5 euro . Now I have new pick-up shoes also.

Edit: But unfortunately I bought wrong type of "new type" pick-up shoes. They may fit many locos, but not these Crocodiles. They cost just 6 euro for three so cheap spare items for other locos anyway. It was good that I got info about wrong type of decoder before I had started to change it. Now I will not do anything to them as parts don't fit or are the wrong ones.

I just changed two turnout decoders 74460 and one turnout motor 74491 (to self fixed = micro switches shorted) and once again all my turnouts work like they should. That was my Märklin experience of today and no trains will run today as we have other things to do also.


Cheers,
Janne

Jackson,

I don't know where Southport is. I am guessing that is must be south of Northport, but I digress. In any case, the closest dealer that I can recommend for servicing and restoration of your model is Helmut's Hobby in VA. You can get the information from their website as well as the form that you are required to submit with a return.
http://www.helmutshobbies.com
http://www.helmutshobbies.com/Service_Form.pdf

But, before you do that, have you done any of the tests that I mentioned earlier?
Test with an analog transformer
Test with a classic 6021
See Post #10 for more details

If you do not have an analog transformer, they can be bought out of start sets for a decent price. AJCKids in TX usually has some, as do many other dealers and on ebay.
You can also use the brown and yellow leads from that transformer to power lights and accessories on your layout, even when not using the regulated control.

If I can be of additional assistance, please contact me by PM

Regards

Mike C