 Joined: 04/05/2013(UTC) Posts: 55
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 I have been struggling for over a month. I have setup my braking module so that we the signal change to green the loco moves of again. However when I set the signal to red the green signal light stays on because of the current from the braking module in the stop section. How do stop the green signal light being on all the time.
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Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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can you draw a wiring diagram so we know how you've done the wiring. |
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Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
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Yeah I operated them in the past. It is possible.
Please edit a scheme please.
Also its extremely important you separate the track corectly.
Rinus
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Joined: 04/05/2013(UTC) Posts: 55
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Please see attached diagram of wiring.
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 Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800
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Hi,
You have just to remove the red wire between the k84 and the stop section.
Fred
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Joined: 04/05/2013(UTC) Posts: 55
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Hi Fred.
However if I remove the wire then I can not use the signal to control the braking module.
I am trying work out how to keep the signal and stop the green light being on all the time
Regards
JVT
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Joined: 04/05/2013(UTC) Posts: 55
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Originally Posted by: Rinus  Yeah I operated them in the past. It is possible.
Please edit a scheme please.
Also its extremely important you separate the track corectly.
Rinus Hi Rinus I would really appreciate your feedback based on your experience. Thank you JVT 
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 Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,571
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Hi Jvt1 What type of signal do you use? The brake module is not active when there is power in the stop section. Any train can pass. If no power in stop section the brake module is activated by lack of voltage. To manipulate the stop section you would normally use a signal. When the signal is red it cuts off the power. To manipulate a signal you would normally use a K83 module or a Viesmmann 5211. If you do not have a signal you could use a K84 module to switch on/off the power section. What I see is that you have mixed a K84 and a signal, which I am not sure will work? But lot's of experienced guys here, so somone may know how to do.  Or else try using a K83 module to control the signal and let the signal control the stop section?  Brgds - Lasse |
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives. |
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Joined: 04/05/2013(UTC) Posts: 55
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Hi Lasse
I am using viessman light signals such as 4011
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Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800
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Originally Posted by: Jvt1 Hi Fred.
However if I remove the wire then I can not use the signal to control the braking module.
I am trying work out how to keep the signal and stop the green light being on all the time
Regards
JVT Hi, You are right. I must admit I answered too quickly, thinking that the 5232 had its own decoder, and was controlled by the digital signal. In fact, it has no decoder, and is controlled by the voltage on the S input. That being said, I'm surprised that the 5232 current of the S sense input is large enough (some mA) to activate a LED connected to ground (and not to the digital signal). (I suppose that your signal lights are LEDS) I see 3 possibilities: 1- Use a second output of the k84 to connect the red/green lights, and send simultaneously both adresses. 2- Use a k83 associated with a DPDT bistable relay instead of the k 84. That way, you also have 2 independant circuits, one for controlling the 5232, the other for the lights. 3-Insert a diode in the wire connecting the S input to the stop section, in such a way that the green LED is OFF at red signal. That diode should not prevent the 5232 to detect the presence of the digital signal when "green". BUT this is just an own assumption, for I have not found on the web the 5232 electrical diagram. But you might try, because it's a cheap solution in case it works. Fred
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Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,571
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Hi Jvt1 Ok - so you are using a dayligt signal. You can control a daylight signal and track power at same time, but I think you need to use 2 outputs on the K84 . Have a read trough this post: https://www.marklin-user...spx?g=posts&m=180454Brgds - Lasse |
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives. |
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Joined: 04/05/2013(UTC) Posts: 55
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Originally Posted by: efel Originally Posted by: Jvt1 Hi Fred.
However if I remove the wire then I can not use the signal to control the braking module.
I am trying work out how to keep the signal and stop the green light being on all the time
Regards
JVT Hi, You are right. I must admit I answered too quickly, thinking that the 5232 had its own decoder, and was controlled by the digital signal. In fact, it has no decoder, and is controlled by the voltage on the S input. That being said, I'm surprised that the 5232 current of the S sense input is large enough (some mA) to activate a LED connected to ground (and not to the digital signal). (I suppose that your signal lights are LEDS) I see 3 possibilities: 1- Use a second output of the k84 to connect the red/green lights, and send simultaneously both adresses. 2- Use a k83 associated with a DPDT bistable relay instead of the k 84. That way, you also have 2 independant circuits, one for controlling the 5232, the other for the lights. 3-Insert a diode in the wire connecting the S input to the stop section, in such a way that the green LED is OFF at red signal. That diode should not prevent the 5232 to detect the presence of the digital signal when "green". BUT this is just an own assumption, for I have not found on the web the 5232 electrical diagram. But you might try, because it's a cheap solution in case it works. Fred Hi Fred With your point 1, do you have sample wiring diagram of how this would work? Cheers JVT
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Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800
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In the attached file below, Adress 1 drives the signal lights; Adress 2 controls the stop section voltage. It's up to you to send both adresses. efel attached the following image(s):
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Joined: 04/05/2013(UTC) Posts: 55
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Originally Posted by: efel In the attached file below, Adress 1 drives the signal lights; Adress 2 controls the stop section voltage. It's up to you to send both adresses. Hi Fred. Understood. I am not very familar at electronics, with point 2 what is a DPDT bistable relay and how would this be wiried up? Cheers JVT
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Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800
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Hi, A DPDT relay has 2 independant circuits, switched at the same time when the coil is energized. This link explains better than I could do. You can buy a bistable DPDT relay for 3 euros or so, and connect it in soldering wires, but as you said you are not familiar at electronic, you could buy instead, for instance, a 5552 viessmann: it's 2 independant DPDT relays in a single case. You can find here how to connect it to a k83. That way, only 1 adress is needed for your application. Fred
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Joined: 04/05/2013(UTC) Posts: 55
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Originally Posted by: efel Hi, A DPDT relay has 2 independant circuits, switched at the same time when the coil is energized. This link explains better than I could do. You can buy a bistable DPDT relay for 3 euros or so, and connect it in soldering wires, but as you said you are not familiar at electronic, you could buy instead, for instance, a 5552 viessmann: it's 2 independant DPDT relays in a single case. You can find here how to connect it to a k83. That way, only 1 adress is needed for your application. Fred Thank you. Fred
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Joined: 04/05/2013(UTC) Posts: 55
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Originally Posted by: efel Hi, A DPDT relay has 2 independant circuits, switched at the same time when the coil is energized. This link explains better than I could do. You can buy a bistable DPDT relay for 3 euros or so, and connect it in soldering wires, but as you said you are not familiar at electronic, you could buy instead, for instance, a 5552 viessmann: it's 2 independant DPDT relays in a single case. You can find here how to connect it to a k83. That way, only 1 adress is needed for your application. Fred Hi Fred, I have decided to go with your point 1. Your advise is much appreciated. I have another quick question. Can the Viessmann 5232 braking module up to be setup to work in both direct? Cheers Justin
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Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800
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Hi,
I remember there were some threads on this forum concerning braking in both direction.
Not sure it is straightforward.
Fred
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