USA EMD A and B units maximum?

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NS1200		#1 Posted : 19 February 2013 07:29:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 3,443		Just wondering how many EMD A and B Diesel units were used in combination in actual operation. Usually on pictures you see either a single unit of 1,500 HP pulling,or two of such units. I have seen pictures of Santa Fe streamliner passenger trains with 4 units in front,meaning 6,000 HP pulling power. Have there been larger combinations than that? I would love to collect a larger combination of say 10 units,but is that realistic? Paul. Edited by user 19 February 2013 15:07:56(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified
		Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).


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foumaro		#2 Posted : 19 February 2013 07:48:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,430 Location: Attiki Athens Greece		I had see a photo with one A unit and four B units,it was a commersial Santa Fe consist.I think ten units are a lot.

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kimballthurlow		#3 Posted : 19 February 2013 20:33:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,765 Location: Brisbane, Australia		Hi Paul, I also model American railroads in another life, so am aware of some of the requirements you talk about. Your observation of 6,000hp for a lash-up of 4 units was about normal for very long freight trains in the 1940s/50s. This was due to a number of co-dependent factors, two of which are: 1. The length of a train (and the mass/weight) was governed by siding/loop lengths on single track routes (common in North America), and 2. the available motive power, historically, one large steam loco could pull this long train - modern engines such as the articulateds were capable of around 6,000 hp. When EMD and Alco built the first diesels, the best they could muster by the 50s, was around 1,500hp, with some exceptions. Interestingly, the build cost of a lash-up of 4 diesels was about 3-4 times that of an equivalent steam engine. The railroads thought they could justify this indulgence by operating savings - fuel, availability, and flexibility of deployment. That said, any combination of 1 to 4 of F7/Alco PA1 units was the norm in the 50s, depending on the length of the train. Trains hauled now by modern diesel electrics in North America, only require one or two locos, because they are rated around 4,000 hp for a single unit. regards Kimball
		HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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obxbill		#4 Posted : 19 February 2013 23:14:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,300 Location: manteo, nc		When they were first sold to railroads they actually came as an A-B-B-A consist and were considered a single unit. Didn't take long to realize you can mix and match how they saw fit for the job intended. But as said, four units were the norm in a typical freight and especially for the express passenger services. If you check out early Santa Fe Warbonnet pics, they are usually ABBA sets. Bill
		Marklin HO and Z also Hornby 00 and US 2-rail

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3rail4life		#5 Posted : 20 February 2013 03:59:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 426 Location: Northern California		Hi Paul, I have seen quite few pictures of A-B-B-B-A on the ATSF, but how about 12 units? one of my favorite classic shots. Gordon

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mike c		#6 Posted : 20 February 2013 05:41:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,243 Location: Montreal, QC		In Sweden it would have to be A-B-B-A Regards MC

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mike c		#7 Posted : 20 February 2013 05:44:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,243 Location: Montreal, QC		I seem to remember seeing Canadian trains that did not always have an A - B (X) - A combination. It was more common to see an A - B - B composition with a steam generator car at the rear. Some runs in Western Canada (ie the Transcontinental (CN) or The Canadian (CP) might have used an A - B - A or A - B - B - A composition. Regards Mike C

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NS1200		#8 Posted : 20 February 2013 07:32:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 3,443		Thank you all. My question was triggered by comments made in the Big Boy clip where it was said that 4 Diesel units could replace one Big Boy,that is roughly 6,000 HP. The concept of these A and B units was simply brilliant from the start,extra power could be added pending on requirements. It could be true that initially it was cheaper to run the Big Boy but i must assume when including all the extra costs for steamers the EMD units must have won gloriously. In Holland we have seen French built Diesel loco's arriving in the mid fifties,series NS 2200 and 2400,type Bo-Bo. A total of 280 pcs were put in action between 1954 and 2003. These were having an 842 or 900 HP Diesel engine and could be run in multiple traction. I have seen 4 of those loco's pulling heavy ore and oil trains,albeit on perfectly horizontal track. The engines were of a standard design also used as auxiliary engines on board of seagoing vessels. Cheers, Paul. Edited by user 20 February 2013 12:43:17(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified
		Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).


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NS1200		#9 Posted : 20 February 2013 20:14:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 3,443		Originally Posted by: 3rail4life Hi Paul, I have seen quite few pictures of A-B-B-B-A on the ATSF, but how about 12 units? one of my favorite classic shots. Gordon Thanks,Gordon,great pictures! The top one must be in Chicago,right? Do observe that the Santa Fe prototypes have an aluminium look over them whereas the Maerklin model is silvery colored. 12 units means 12 times 1,500 Hp equals 18,000 HP! With such a power display they would tear the spikes out of the sleepers,right? Paul.
		Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).

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3rail4life		#10 Posted : 21 February 2013 00:49:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 426 Location: Northern California		Cool Paul, Glad you liked the pics, yeah the first one was taken at the now gone Dearborn Station in Chicago, July 1965 and the second shot a westbound freight passing through Joliet, Illinois, July 1973. I am so glad the photographer captured that magnificent site, I would have never thought it to be possible, it's crazy. I think They used stainless steel on the sides of the locomotives which gives them that shiny look. Gordon

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