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Offline JohnnyB  
#1 Posted : 26 January 2013 04:20:08(UTC)
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JohnnyB

Australia   
Joined: 19/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 33
Hello everybody

I'm getting ready to lay some tracks on my layout I want to put a braking module on my signals but some things aren't quite clear.

How many signals can I run off of one brake module?
Can I use the same piece of track, such as a turn out for the first detection track for two signals? or should these be separate from each other?
What else do I need to wire up the track besides a K83 decoder, the braking module, a signal, and track isolators? I'll be using a Viessmann semaphore signals.
I also have a CS2.

This is my track plan. I want to use the 2268 turn out on the left as the transition track. Is it to long if its more then the length of the pick up shoe or is this simply a minimum and not a maximum?
Further round I want to use the 2265 turn out and the 2232 above it as my isolated safety zones.
The two sidings will have signals but not braking modules.
Both hidden stations will have signals as well but they shouldn't need barking modules either.

UserPostedImage

Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to give me.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 26 January 2013 10:36:31(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Paris, France
Hello Johnny
I am using Bogobit "Bremsmodul Classic" for the following reasons:
- In kit version it costs only 11€ per unit
- It does not need a 3 track sections (interface, slowdown, emergency stops) but rather only one.
- it accomodate the temporary connection of the DC section (bracke section) with the digital section by the current pick-up shoe.
- because of the above, it can be used for multiple signals (not a huge quantity of course).

So, to make it short:
- all you need per signal is an inverter contact to connect the section in front of the signal with either the normal digital signal or with the DC voltage to make the braking.
- the same Brake module may be used for multiple signals but I recommend to group signals that cannot be used at the same time and to limit the number to 2 to 4 signals (especially if you have lighted trains).

Attention : this works only:
- if you use only digital loks with a faily recent decoder (that recognize the breaking section- not very old delta decoders))
- if you adjust the bracking "speed" so that all locos stop before the end of the signal section

Cheers
Jean
On this video (my carpet train) you can see the braking modules in action:
Video-Click me
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
My Layout
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline clapcott  
#3 Posted : 26 January 2013 11:45:18(UTC)
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clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,448
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: JohnnyB Go to Quoted Post

How many signals can I run off of one brake module?

If by "signal" you are referring to circuit asscociated with each braking area - then 1 (a block home signal could have a preceding distance signal)
Quote:

Can I use the same piece of track, such as a turn out for the first detection track for two signals? or should these be separate from each other?

Conceivably - but you should not, in order to cover all situations.
Quote:

What else do I need to wire up the track besides a K83 decoder, the braking module, a signal, and track isolators?

If you don't have the manual .. refer ..
http://medienpdb.maerkli.../1/pdf/72442_betrieb.pdf

Note: disclaimer, I don't like the concept of these units (marklin or otherwise).
On your layout make sure you understand the limitations of running trains in both directions.
Peter
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Offline Tower  
#4 Posted : 26 January 2013 16:16:45(UTC)
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Tower


Joined: 12/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 169
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: JohnnyB Go to Quoted Post



Note: disclaimer, I don't like the concept of these units (marklin or otherwise).
On your layout make sure you understand the limitations of running trains in both directions.


Hi Clapcott,

I agree with you, but I did away with the emergency stop section and replaced it with another transition section, this allows braking in both directions, just make sure your acc/dec are correctly set to prevent trains from "jumping" the red light!

BigGrin
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Offline Lars Westerlind  
#5 Posted : 26 January 2013 18:14:59(UTC)
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Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
I certainly agree in disliking the concept of standard Märklin brake modules, that is, using transition sections etc.

Several reasons:
- cannot be used well in "both directions" as said.
- may cause a slight jerk when doing the transition, depending on how sensitive your loco is.
- Unneccessarily expensive.

The concept to conditionally switch to DC when the loco is well within the section is far better IMHO.
Note that Viessmann have some smart light signal control units with this functionality built in.

/l
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Offline Lars Westerlind  
#6 Posted : 26 January 2013 18:20:46(UTC)
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Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
BTW:
the ide of using DC to brake smothly is as old as digital railroading, AFAIK, it was included in very early docoders designed by Lenz for Märklin. But it's true that some of the cheaper decoders thereafter have bin lacking this feature (some Delta, but not all).

Not also that the principle ofthen work also with DCC. As I run a mix of locos, with Multiprotocol, this is important. European decoders of other makes also make a gentle brake when getting negative DC. DCC states thats locos should brake but not necessarily gently. I've got that problem with an early Lokpilot if I remember correctly, and am suspicious towards US decoders.
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Offline Nielsenr  
#7 Posted : 27 January 2013 01:16:33(UTC)
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Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
I too have used a version of the Bogobit classic braking module. It works well without the transition track. I have never thought to use one module to give the braking signal to multiple braking areas ... I may have to try that. And I think they make a version for trains running in both directions, but I haven't tried that one.

Robert
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Offline JohnnyB  
#8 Posted : 27 January 2013 10:25:22(UTC)
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JohnnyB

Australia   
Joined: 19/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 33
Thanks all for your help.

I've ordered two of the Marklin modules from Lokshop.

I'm not worried about the extra cost over these other decoders, but I don't much like the idea of not having a safety zone at the end.
Oddly enough the Lokshop website had a better photo of the top of the module which was almost self explanatory as how to wire it up.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 27 January 2013 12:32:32(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,555
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: Nielsenr Go to Quoted Post
I too have used a version of the Bogobit classic braking module. It works well without the transition track. I have never thought to use one module to give the braking signal to multiple braking areas ... I may have to try that. And I think they make a version for trains running in both directions, but I haven't tried that one.

Robert


Hi Robert
You should (try it for trains running in both directions):
- it works like a charm
- uses standard Bogobit Classic and nothing else (this is the beauty of 3 rails operations).
So from my inverter switch in front of each signal, when signal is red, the train will slow down and halt in both directions. In many cases you may want to have this in only one direction: this is easily made with a switch track (that is direction sensitive)

Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
My Layout
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Offline Nielsenr  
#10 Posted : 27 January 2013 19:50:08(UTC)
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Nielsenr

United States   
Joined: 06/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 883
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Thanks Jean,

I'll have to try it. And I went back to the Bogobit site and the other module is for one way only direction for the brake module.

Robert
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Offline Jvt1  
#11 Posted : 15 June 2013 12:09:12(UTC)
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Jvt1

Australia   
Joined: 04/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by: Tower Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: JohnnyB Go to Quoted Post



Note: disclaimer, I don't like the concept of these units (marklin or otherwise).
On your layout make sure you understand the limitations of running trains in both directions.


Hi Clapcott,

I agree with you, but I did away with the emergency stop section and replaced it with another transition section, this allows braking in both directions, just make sure your acc/dec are correctly set to prevent trains from "jumping" the red light!

BigGrin


Hi Tower,

Do you have a diagram of how you wired the braking module to work in both directions?

JVT
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