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Offline Marklin3200  
#1 Posted : 22 January 2013 17:47:08(UTC)
Marklin3200

Canada   
Joined: 06/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 9
Hello and hope you are warm in your end of the world. It is -17 C outside, feels like -24C

Anyways.

Question:
I have a FREE supply of computer network cable, more specific ethernet cabling, cat 5e cable. That is 8 conductor wire.

I inherited a train layout that needs a total re-wire. I was thinking of using the network cable wire to run power from either transformer on both DC and AC sides.
Do you think the cable could handle it? I'm not saying running both ac and dc on the same wire, I'm saying is that there are 8 wires and I was going to run what I need down each wire.

I have a limited supply of speaker wiring which seems to be much bigger gauge than ethernet cable, but could the lower voltage on DC and speaker wire cause some resistance?

What do you recommend then for GOOD train track wiring?????

Big thank you!
Offline tulit  
#2 Posted : 22 January 2013 18:11:06(UTC)
tulit

Canada   
Joined: 20/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by: Marklin3200 Go to Quoted Post
Hello and hope you are warm in your end of the world. It is -17 C outside, feels like -24C

Anyways.

Question:
I have a FREE supply of computer network cable, more specific ethernet cabling, cat 5e cable. That is 8 conductor wire.

I inherited a train layout that needs a total re-wire. I was thinking of using the network cable wire to run power from either transformer on both DC and AC sides.
Do you think the cable could handle it? I'm not saying running both ac and dc on the same wire, I'm saying is that there are 8 wires and I was going to run what I need down each wire.

I have a limited supply of speaker wiring which seems to be much bigger gauge than ethernet cable, but could the lower voltage on DC and speaker wire cause some resistance?

What do you recommend then for GOOD train track wiring?????

Big thank you!


It's usually 24 or 26AWG so pretty small. I wouldn't consider trying to pull any significant current through it (i.e. supplying track current). You could bundle multiple of the conductors together. It's not as nice to work with either since it's solid copper and not standed. How much wire do you need? Good quality model railroad wire isn't that expensive.

Offline Marklin3200  
#3 Posted : 22 January 2013 18:46:34(UTC)
Marklin3200

Canada   
Joined: 06/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 9
I have a 4ft by 8ft layout. I'd say at most 50 FT of wire.

Is the 24 or 26 AWG wire what is recommended for HO model railroading wire?
Offline kbvrod  
#4 Posted : 22 January 2013 18:48:29(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Offline Marklin3200  
#5 Posted : 22 January 2013 18:52:02(UTC)
Marklin3200

Canada   
Joined: 06/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 9
What is a good wire gauge to use?

Thanks
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Marklin3200
Offline kbvrod  
#6 Posted : 22 January 2013 19:03:47(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Originally Posted by: Marklin3200 Go to Quoted Post
What is a good wire gauge to use?

Thanks


http://www.lancemindheim.com/wire1.htm

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/4997


Dr D



Offline Marklin3200  
#7 Posted : 22 January 2013 19:37:13(UTC)
Marklin3200

Canada   
Joined: 06/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 9
Thank you.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Marklin3200
Offline kbvrod  
#8 Posted : 22 January 2013 21:31:46(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Originally Posted by: Marklin3200 Go to Quoted Post
Thank you.



Your welcome!ThumpUp

Dr D
Offline cookee_nz  
#9 Posted : 22 January 2013 21:57:04(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,978
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Marklin3200 Go to Quoted Post
What is a good wire gauge to use?

Thanks


You may find this thread from last year to be helpful....

https://www.marklin-user...post-on-wire-gauges.aspx

I'm with others on this, personally I would not use Cat5 cable, partly because the gauge is too light, but in saying that, if you 'paired' then you would increase the effective gauge and that would give you 4 pairs per cable but even the combined gauge is still not all that high. I guess if it's the only cable available to you then it's better than nothing.

Edit: To put it another way, if I were going out to buy or obtain wire for my model railway, Ethernet/Cat5 would not be my preferred choice, but I can see there might be some advantages. Bear in mind also that Märklin and many other manufacturers have designed their connectors, plugs, etc primarily for stranded wire.

Personally, I would go for stranded wherever possible and I would try to stick with the Marklin colour coding wherever possible - makes initial hookup and subsequent trouble-shooting a lot easier.

But in the spirit of good modeling, you make do with what you have and if you happen to have a good source of free cable Cat5 or whatever at your disposal, and you accept the trade-off, then of course go with what is most comfortable.


Some years ago, I was decommissioning a Travel Agent who were replacing all their old terminals. They all used a serial connection, and I grabbed the cables instead of heaving them into the bin. Once I stripped one down I was delighted to find 4 inner wires, all stranded, about the same gauge as the wires used on Marklin accessories, and the biggest bonus, the colours are Yellow, Red, Green and Blue.

One other suggestion I made a while back on another topic if you are not bothered about colour coding, is to use old christmas tree light wiring. Again, very similar stranded gauge to Marklin, and apart from the fiddly job of unraveling it, very good long lengths of cable. Usually all the same dark green of course and on a complex layout this can make trouble-shooting some time later quite time-consuming.

Cheers

Steve
Wellington

Edited by user 23 January 2013 03:36:05(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline xxup  
#10 Posted : 22 January 2013 22:02:50(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,498
Location: Australia
I dunno.. While I agree that it is not much good for power feeds, there could be a role for cat5 in wiring up s88 modules to contact tracks.. Cool
Adrian
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#11 Posted : 22 January 2013 22:24:58(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,723
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
....... there could be a role for cat5 in wiring up s88 modules to contact tracks.. Cool


Which is what I'll be using cat 5 for - S88 wiring between my upper and lower modules.
Offline nevw  
#12 Posted : 22 January 2013 23:19:16(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
....... there could be a role for cat5 in wiring up s88 modules to contact tracks.. Cool


Which is what I'll be using cat 5 for - S88 wiring between my upper and lower modules.


And there are non MArklin S88 Modules that use Cat 5 cable. Even get the Cable Cat 5 one end and the special connector to go into the Cs or Ecos.

NN
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline perz  
#13 Posted : 22 January 2013 23:24:59(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Personally I think the worry about too small wire gauge is highly exaggerated. Anyway, the CAT 5 cable is rated for 0.36 A max current per pair. But this rating is based on that you bundle 100 wires together and run them 100 m away, with all pairs in all the cables carrying 0.36 A of current each. With short distances and non-bundled cables the voltage drop and heat-up due to the cable resistance would be quite marginal, even with the somewhat higher currents that you may get in the track feeds.
Offline jeehring  
#14 Posted : 23 January 2013 00:19:23(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Marklin3200 Go to Quoted Post
What is a good wire gauge to use?

Thanks


http://www.lancemindheim.com/wire1.htm


Dr D




Thank you Kevin,
On the URL mentionned above, there is something I don't understand
I do not understand the pictures about the "Wire tap-in squeeze connector" ...
The end of the cable is in its plastic sheath.
Should I peel the wire before introducing it in the connector or is it done automatically ?
Should I remove a part of the sheat or not ?
Those connectors look practical. I didn't know them. Blushing
Offline tulit  
#15 Posted : 23 January 2013 00:28:45(UTC)
tulit

Canada   
Joined: 20/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Marklin3200 Go to Quoted Post
What is a good wire gauge to use?

Thanks


http://www.lancemindheim.com/wire1.htm


Dr D




Thank you Kevin,
On the URL mentionned above, there is something I don't understand
I do not understand the pictures about the "Wire tap-in squeeze connector" ...
The end of the cable is in its plastic sheath.
Should I peel the wire before introducing it in the connector or is it done automatically ?
Should I remove a part of the sheat or not ?
Those connectors look practical. I didn't know them. Blushing


It's what is also called a vampire tap. When you push the metal piece down it punctures through both of the cables insulation you are trying to splice together and electrically connects them (it has pointed teeth you can't see in the photos). No need to strip anything. Not the most robust, but a lot quicker than doing proper splices.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by tulit
Offline Maxi  
#16 Posted : 23 January 2013 00:50:09(UTC)
Maxi


Joined: 28/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 757
Location: Wawa, Ontario
I feel that your question is not going to yield a firm yes or no answer.

Can it be used, in my opinion yes but under certain guide lines.

As an example, My layout (layout on a framework, not a carpet bahn) uses cat5 wire to connect the track sections (every 3rd or 4 th piece of track) to a 14 gauge distribution ring for the respective power zone or the common ground for the layout. Also cat5 is used to power lighting, signals, S88 feedback.

Expecting to use cat5 wiring to be a long distance wire to supply power from one end of the layout to the other and expect the devices to work with high power requirements is going to give mixed results.

Really gets down to how the wire is getting used from point A to point B that will determine the end results.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#17 Posted : 23 January 2013 01:51:00(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,723
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: tulit Go to Quoted Post
It's what is also called a vampire tap.


More commonly known as a 'Scotchlock'

UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 23 January 2013 08:23:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,338
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: perz Go to Quoted Post
Anyway, the CAT 5 cable is rated for 0.36 A max current per pair.
And a CS2 is rated for 3 or 5 A maximum current output.

If you have 10+ m CAT 5 wire to a remote feeder track on the layout and there is a short circuit on the track, the high impedance of the cable could limit the current to less than 3 A (5A) and the CS2 will not switch off. So you might end up having a permanent current of 2.9 or 4.9 A through a cable that was designed for data and specified with 0.36 A.

And of course this will happen when you left the room - so when you come back you start searching where the funny smell comes from ...

Two examples of undetected short circuits (boosters not switching off):
http://www.miniatur-wund...henbericht-nr-570-kw-39/
http://www.miniatur-wund...henbericht-nr-101-kw-40/

There should be no problems with a thick wire around the layout and short pieces of CAT 5 cable used for feeders to the track.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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