RocRail - installing Lissy sensors

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Rinus		#1 Posted : 25 November 2012 13:44:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands		Hi folks, Trying to control my lay-out with Rocrail software. However I find the installation quite difficult. I've managed to drive trains and control switches, but now I'm getting hopelessly messed up with the installing of the Lissy decoders. I want to install my Lissy sensor (adress 501) in the trackplan. However it is unclear which steps to take. The manual and the online wiki are a bit fuzzy here. Sofar I followed the steps writen in the wiki http://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=sensor-gen-nl I think I fail at the "interface part". 1. Interface ID is simple: the name of the central station, in my case Intellibox IR. 2. Then Address part. I read that Bus for Lissy IR items is 2. But then Address!? What do I submit there? I tried 501, which is the Lissy sensors address on my Intellibox, but then nothing happens on the screen when a train passes the sensor. Allthough the sensors LED indicates there was a contact in real. I found this part dealing with addressing: http://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=addressing-en I quote: Only the Address field is looked at. All other fields of the dialogue are described in detail on page Sensors: Interface. Sensors are always addressed flat in Rocrail starting with 1. The address of a single sensor connected to a 16-port sensor module is calculated as follows: Address = ( Module - 1 ) * 16 + Port Example: Port 5 of the second module has the address ( 2 - 1 ) * 16 + 5 = 2 Now I'm starting to get a bit puzzled. Whats the module number of a Lissy (Loconet)?!? And I guess that since the Lissy receiver has 2 sensors it is a 2 port sensor?!? Address = (Module-1) * 2 (guess) + 2 + 1 Please help. Regards, Rinus

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French_Fabrice		#2 Posted : 25 November 2012 18:08:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France		Hi Rinus, I don't have any experience with Lissy sensors, but aren't they like other sensors, i.e. you have to enter only the address ? Did you manage successfully a s88 sensor entry before trying with Lissy? In my case, it's very simple (S88) : only enter the value in the address field on the interface tab of the sensor object, select the sensor type, and that's it ! (leave all the other fields blank). If it's more complicated with Lissy sensors, post a call for help in Rocrail forum. All the best Fabrice

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Rinus		#3 Posted : 25 November 2012 21:08:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands		Hi Fabrice, Thanks. I posted a message on the English rocRail forum. Jope to get some help. It should be simple, but its getting quite complex . I've got no S88. Sold them . However it should work with Lissy sensors too. You left Bus blank? Only filled the address and sensor type? Rinus


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French_Fabrice		#4 Posted : 25 November 2012 21:28:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France		Hi Rinus, Seen your post on Rocrail forum... Nothing related to sensor in the trace ? Here is an example of one my S88 sensor (S88 number 5, input number 2 : so address=[16*(5-1) + 2] = 66) : Just try with filling the Address and Type only. No bus, no interface ID... Cheers Fabrice

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Rinus		#5 Posted : 27 November 2012 08:36:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands		Thanks Fabrice! With the alterations you suggested it worked. seems the manual is not up to date here. I've now managed to steer the trains and switches. Also the sensors seem to be working and the train number appears in the blocks. Its great stuff! I'll next try a block. I havent succeded to make a train do a auto stop in a block of the hidden yard. Do you know if there is some sort of manual for hidden yard opperation? I think the rocrailwiki does not provide the essential details to get things working. Its a bit to general for me. Rinus


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French_Fabrice		#6 Posted : 27 November 2012 13:09:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France		Hi Rinus, ...very easy to force a stop in the hidden yard. To make short, in the associated block of the hidden yard, you have to set a "fixed" wait of the time you wish (for example 10 sec.). This will force a stop of the train for the duration you've entered in the block. I'll post tonight pictures of my hidden yard configuration to provide more precise details. Cheers Fabrice

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Rinus		#7 Posted : 27 November 2012 15:38:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands		Hi Fabrice! Awesome! As soon as my Pc is fixed (damn windows 8 ... ) I'll post some pics of my trackplan in rocview. Rinus


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French_Fabrice		#8 Posted : 27 November 2012 19:26:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France		Rinus, A quick addition to my previous post... The wait time in blocks will only be effective if you run in automatic mode. To be in a "useful" automatic mode, you must have to set before: -a few locos -a few turnouts (maybe also a few signals) -some blocks and associated sensors -and routes between blocks ! If you don't have that ready, I'm not sure auto mode will do a lot ! To ease the route generation, there is a command in the menu : "Analyze", which will generate all routes between the blocks already set up. Last, if you wish, I may send you my config (plan.xml) by PM. You will be able to look at how I did... Cheers Fabrice

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French_Fabrice		#9 Posted : 27 November 2012 23:18:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France		Rinus, Here is an example, extracted from my layout: This my synoptics. We are going to inspect only a small part of it, i.e. one hidden yard composed of blocks BLoad1, Bload2, Bload3, and 2 others blocks BLow1 & Blow2. This subset will allow some automatic movement on the lower oval and the 3 lanes of the hidden yard... The setting of turnouts and sensors are not illustrated, as you know how to do it. Block BLoad1 (details tab), with a fixed (minimal) stop duration in auto mode = to 5 sec. The speed block is set to Vmid (except when replaced by a different route speed - see later) Block Bload1 (route tab). Please notice the route are autogenerated with the "Analyze" feature. What is interesting here is the declaration of 2 sensors associated to the block, and used by the route entering the "+" side of the block (line "all" selected). Sensor r1-5 triggers the event "enter2pre" immediatly and set the speed to Vmin; Sensor r3-1 triggers the event "in" 700ms _after_ the sensor has been fired (event timer 2) and the train stops...for at least 5 sec (maybe more if the next forward block is not free) Block BLoad2 (route tab). The details tab (not illustrated) is based on the same principle as of Bload1 Block BLoad3 (route tab)...Idem Block BLow1 (details tab). No systematic wait time (i.e. if the next block is free, the train won't stop) Block BLow1 (route tab). There is only one sensor (r1-6) associated to this block and the sensor generates the event enter2in. In that case, the "enter" event is generated immediatly when the sensors becomes active, and 800ms after (event timer1) the "in" event is generated. The train will stop when the "in" event is fired only if next block (BLow2) is not free. Block BLow2 (details tab). Same principle as BLow1. Block BLow2 (route tab). Same principle as BLow1. And now the routes (only a few)... Route from BLoad2 to BLow1. Use the speed associated with the destination block This tab shows how the turnouts will be set... Route from BLow1 to BLow2. Same as previous. I don't show the "switches" tab, because it is empty. Route from BLow2 to BLoad1. Please notice here the speed of the route, which is 35% of VMax (for not being too speedy when entering the triple turnout to go to BLoad1). So this speed will come into effect when the train will exit from BLow2 How the triple turnout will be set, to go to BLoad1 Now put 3 locos, one each on BLoad1, Bload2, Bload3, drag and drop the name of the locos to the blocks, set auto mode "on" and "start all"... You'll see your locos running automatically, stopping on the blocks declared with a wait time and choosing randomly available routes... Have fun Fabrice

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Rinus		#10 Posted : 28 November 2012 16:47:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands		Hi Fabrice! There should be more 'thank's' buttons! This is really fantastic. I'm gonna make a coppy of it and read it thoroughly this evening. Many thanks in advance! BTW: I see your version seems similar to mine. I thought I was using the older version of Rocrail. The screens in the rocrailwiki seems much more modern. Regards, Rinus


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Rinus		#11 Posted : 28 November 2012 16:50:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands		One quick question though: are the signals in the hidden yard real or fake? I mean are they really there or are they just there in Rocrail and fictional on the layout? Rinus


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French_Fabrice		#12 Posted : 28 November 2012 19:55:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France		Originally Posted by: Rinus One quick question though: are the signals in the hidden yard real or fake? I mean are they really there or are they just there in Rocrail and fictional on the layout? Rinus Hi Rinus, In my case, they are real although not physical signals with lamps/leds, i.e. they are emulated thru k84's. But, I have a relay (button k101-104) which either keeps always the power "on" regardless of the state of the k84, or if I wish to run in manual mode or use an explicit power cut, I switch the button to red and the power will be linked to the state of the k84...It's a very complex affair (twice cabling) which I think is now totally useless. To be simple, you don't have to set physical signals in hidden yard for the train to stop automatically when you have a computer driven layout. It's a waste of time and money. Also there is no need to set a signal associated to a block for a train to stop (it's the various timers or the state of next block which drive the stop of a train)... On visible tracks, real signals are only there for decoration (light or mechanical signals change according to the software, but there is no use to cut the power when the signal is red). Have fun Fabrice PS: my version of Rocrail is revision 3886. I'll do an upgrade by Christmas, but no real need for now

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