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Offline Lars  
#1 Posted : 22 January 2010 10:57:31(UTC)
Lars


Joined: 21/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Sweden
Hello,

My first post here, my name is Lars, I used to enjoy my model railroad when I was between 8-13 years old, then other intressts came in the way. Well, not for my dad, he still enjoys it, probebly because it reminds him of the Märklin railroad he had as a kid. The problem for him is: when I lost intrest, I tore down the HO scale railroad we had built in my room (A quite basic traintrack, but we enjoyed it. I belive we had about 9 engines and maybe 40 different wagons? We mostly bought used items from the 60ths as we found them more appelaing then the modern plastic trains). But allright, enough about that: Ever since I torn down the railroad track, my dad has been dreaming about having a new one, right now our trains are collecting dust and well he sometimes brings out a few pieces of track and build a small railroad which he can sit with for hours. This can not go on. So now, in a few months he is turning 60, and I think its time for me to make up for my evil deed (That is, destroying our railroad): I want to give him a small railroad in a suitcase, a märklin Z-Scale. I have seen the pre-built ones but not only are they quite expensive, but I would also lose the chance to build one to him myself (I have done it once and belive I could do it again :) ).

Im planning to buy a used old suitcase, this starter set: http://www.maerklinshop....f7499bb&anid=M081560 and then build the rest. I would need help with the following, which track pieces do I need to build a track like this: http://www.station500.com/picture/noch/88100_1.jpg

A small list of Z-track pieces from märklin with their article number would be fantastic if anyone could provide me with. Thanks in advance!

Best regards:
Lars
Offline Breitenfurt  
#2 Posted : 22 January 2010 12:13:02(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
Hi lars. Welcome to the forum.

According to Noch, for their 87060/87065 Blumenau/Tannheim layout (the layout without the case that you referenced) you will need:

1 8503 Straight Track 55mm (2-3/16")
4 8504 Straight Track 25mm (1")
1 8506 Straight Track 108.6mm (4-1/4")
16 8510 Curved Track R145mm (5-3/4") 45 Degree
1 8521 Curved Track R195mm (7-11/16") 30 Degree
1 8565 Manual Turnout
1 8977 Curved Bridge Ramp
1 8991 Track Bumper/Buffer

I have to admit that I haven't worked out how it all goes together even after messing about for 30 minutes in a track planning program. Looking at one of the many photos on the web (http://www.coolturisme.com/Ebay/aucfantista/tin-toys/date10/10.5-marklin-a-1.jpg) it looks as if there has been some easement of the inner loop joints to make it all fit otherwise the loop would, in fact, be a circle.

Anyway, I hope that helps.
Offline Nightowl4933  
#3 Posted : 22 January 2010 13:34:45(UTC)
Nightowl4933

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 972
Location: North Wiltshire
Hi Lars,

Welcome! In choosing Z gauge you may have picked probably the most challenging, but for your circumstances probably the best, option.

Bearing in mind what Chris said, I would suggest you find your suitcase first (it would need to be very sturdy and not too deep, I'd have thought) and then plan the layout to fit the space. The circuit you're interested in is fairly standard.

Hope this helps,

Pete
Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free trip around the sun every year.
Z Scale is great - where's me glasses?
Offline Nightowl4933  
#4 Posted : 22 January 2010 14:06:36(UTC)
Nightowl4933

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 972
Location: North Wiltshire
Chris Manvell wrote:
Hi lars. Welcome to the forum.

According to Noch, for their 87060/87065 Blumenau/Tannheim layout (the layout without the case that you referenced) you will need:

1 8503 Straight Track 55mm (2-3/16")
4 8504 Straight Track 25mm (1")
1 8506 Straight Track 108.6mm (4-1/4")
16 8510 Curved Track R145mm (5-3/4") 45 Degree
1 8521 Curved Track R195mm (7-11/16") 30 Degree
1 8565 Manual Turnout
1 8977 Curved Bridge Ramp
1 8991 Track Bumper/Buffer

I have to admit that I haven't worked out how it all goes together even after messing about for 30 minutes in a track planning program. Looking at one of the many photos on the web (http://www.coolturisme.com/Ebay/aucfantista/tin-toys/date10/10.5-marklin-a-1.jpg) it looks as if there has been some easement of the inner loop joints to make it all fit otherwise the loop would, in fact, be a circle.

Anyway, I hope that helps.


Hi Chris,

I tried and didn't get anywhere, either - until I added 2x8504's - but it still doesn't look the same.
Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free trip around the sun every year.
Z Scale is great - where's me glasses?
Offline Breitenfurt  
#5 Posted : 22 January 2010 14:28:29(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
Hi Pete.

Yes, I had a pretty close look at several photos of the layout and they all tended to indicate that the right side of the inner loop was stretched slightly and that the left side was compressed so that by the time it got hack to the 'top' of the layout it was an inch away from the upper track. With a slightly larger case one could do it the correct case but it probably works fine as it as each joint would have about 2 degrees error. Anyway, it must work otherwise Noch wouldn't be doing it. (I know it works as I have a few 'strained' joints on my own layout.

All the best,
Chris.
Offline Nightowl4933  
#6 Posted : 22 January 2010 14:31:23(UTC)
Nightowl4933

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 972
Location: North Wiltshire
Hi Chris,

It makes me wonder why they bother! Surely it would be just as easy to produce these without easement?
Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free trip around the sun every year.
Z Scale is great - where's me glasses?
Offline Breitenfurt  
#7 Posted : 22 January 2010 14:53:54(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
I think the case is a standard size and only just large enough to manage it with the easement.

Chris.
Offline Nightowl4933  
#8 Posted : 22 January 2010 16:20:56(UTC)
Nightowl4933

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 972
Location: North Wiltshire
Chris Manvell wrote:
I think the case is a standard size and only just large enough to manage it with the easement.

Chris.


Probably. I've just found this on the Noch website!

Pete
Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free trip around the sun every year.
Z Scale is great - where's me glasses?
Offline Lars  
#9 Posted : 22 January 2010 17:22:52(UTC)
Lars


Joined: 21/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Sweden
Wow! Thank you all very much so far! So, I would need to do some slight modifications to the tracks? Is there any other similar track plan you could help me with? A quite basic one but not just a round circle. I will go and look for a suitcase this week, got a feeling that this small birthday project might take some time, so might as well get started ASAP.
Offline Breitenfurt  
#10 Posted : 22 January 2010 19:21:09(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
Hi Lars. Probably best to wait until we know the internal dimensions of the case you have bought. As far as the plan you were thinking of is concerned there is no need to modify the individual track pieces, it would be a case of making up the larger loop complete with the straight that goes under the bridge. Then to make up the smaller loop and joining it up to the larger one and letting the track set up the slight discrepancy itself. The tracks being used are the smallest radius (145mm) so the Noch 'baseboard' is pretty well the smallest size one can use. The next radius up is 195mm which requires a minimum board width of 395mm. Not impossible though you might have a some difficulty finding a good Aluminium/rigid case that INTERNAL size. They probably do exist.

Good luck.
Chris.
Offline Lars  
#11 Posted : 22 January 2010 20:44:52(UTC)
Lars


Joined: 21/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Sweden
Hello!

Ah thank you, what internal dimensions would a case need to fit this kind of track layout pictured?

Best regards
Offline Nightowl4933  
#12 Posted : 22 January 2010 21:15:47(UTC)
Nightowl4933

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 972
Location: North Wiltshire
Lars wrote:
Hello!

Ah thank you, what internal dimensions would a case need to fit this kind of track layout pictured?

Best regards


I think this could be a chicken and egg question. You'd be better off finding the case you'd like, bearing in mind Chris' comments about internal dimensions relating to the radius of the curves. 145mm radius curves would need a case depth of at least 305mm for a basic oval, but if you want to elevate a section or do something more, it would have to be deeper(front to back)

Pete
Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free trip around the sun every year.
Z Scale is great - where's me glasses?
Offline steventrain  
#13 Posted : 22 January 2010 22:37:47(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,695
Location: United Kingdom
Hi and Welcome to the forum, Lars.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Lars  
#14 Posted : 22 January 2010 23:09:16(UTC)
Lars


Joined: 21/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Sweden
Hi,

Thanks all again, I will head out the the second hand shop nearby to see what kind of briefcases they have. Maybe if I find a litle bigger bag, like a old style travelbag, I will use that instead, and maybe build a little bigger traintrack. I let you all know when I have found a bag the dimensions, so maybe I could recive some more help with the track-layout.

Oh and Btw, since Im only used to the märklin H0 Scale. Is there anything to think about when it comes to the Z-scale, like how to take care of the trains? What not to do and so on?

Best regards
Offline Breitenfurt  
#15 Posted : 22 January 2010 23:09:35(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
The case used by Noch is ext. 50x37x12cm and the 'board' is 47x34x10cm which, of course, would be the int. dimensions for the case.

Bets wishes,
Chris.
Offline Z-nerd  
#16 Posted : 21 October 2012 16:22:55(UTC)
Z-nerd

Sweden   
Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Linköping, Sweden
I have ordered the rails needed, I will soon find out if the Noch Blumenau trackplan is working in reality.

Does someone know what type of potentiometer is used in the Noch Blumenau ? How many ohms ?



UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
Offline Breitenfurt  
#17 Posted : 21 October 2012 16:40:00(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
Good luck Lars. Keep us up to date with your progress please.

All the best,
Chris.
Offline Z-nerd  
#18 Posted : 24 October 2012 09:44:24(UTC)
Z-nerd

Sweden   
Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Originally Posted by: Breitenfurt Go to Quoted Post
Hi Pete.

Yes, I had a pretty close look at several photos of the layout and they all tended to indicate that the right side of the inner loop was stretched slightly and that the left side was compressed so that by the time it got hack to the 'top' of the layout it was an inch away from the upper track. With a slightly larger case one could do it the correct case but it probably works fine as it as each joint would have about 2 degrees error. Anyway, it must work otherwise Noch wouldn't be doing it. (I know it works as I have a few 'strained' joints on my own layout.

All the best,
Chris.


I received the rails needed for this Blumenau layout. It matches perfectly without any adjustments or errors.

I could buy this layout (No dealers where I live) but it's more fun to build my own, I will try to make a copy of the original Noch Blumenau toporama.


It takes some time, but I'm seeing some progress already.

UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage


Offline Breitenfurt  
#19 Posted : 24 October 2012 10:02:55(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
Hi Lars.

Looking good. I guess that just some of the curved tracks have to be a slightly larger radius to give that configuration.

Best wishes,
Chris.
Offline Z-nerd  
#20 Posted : 24 October 2012 12:44:09(UTC)
Z-nerd

Sweden   
Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Originally Posted by: Breitenfurt Go to Quoted Post
Hi Lars.

Looking good. I guess that just some of the curved tracks have to be a slightly larger radius to give that configuration.

Best wishes,
Chris.



Just follow the Noch trackplan posted in this thread and everything fits. Only the small radius 8510 curved tracks are used. The 1/4 straight tracks 8804 make
the outer ring look like the radius of the outer curves is bigger. BTW my name is not Lars.
Offline RayF  
#21 Posted : 24 October 2012 14:30:18(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I'm confused. What happened to Lars? Where did Z - Nerd come from in this thread?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Breitenfurt  
#22 Posted : 24 October 2012 18:21:30(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: Z-nerd Go to Quoted Post
Just follow the Noch trackplan posted in this thread and everything fits. Only the small radius 8510 curved tracks are used. The 1/4 straight tracks 8804 make the outer ring look like the radius of the outer curves is bigger. BTW my name is not Lars.

Sorry Lars, just me being stupid. 25mm straight; 25mm centre to centre tracks!
All the best,
Chris.
Offline Breitenfurt  
#23 Posted : 24 October 2012 18:24:38(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I'm confused. What happened to Lars? Where did Z - Nerd come from in this thread?

Now that you point it put, I'm confused too!
Chris.
Offline Z-nerd  
#24 Posted : 30 October 2012 15:17:27(UTC)
Z-nerd

Sweden   
Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Linköping, Sweden
I need the trackplan for Noch Sonnenalpe in Z. can only find the N-versions.
Offline Breitenfurt  
#25 Posted : 30 October 2012 16:51:56(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
N scale is almost itentical to Z scale, well near enough that they can use the same Noch kit.

Track required is:

8503 Straight Track 55mm (2-3/16") (2)
8504 Straight Track 25mm (1") (1)
8505 Straight Track 220mm (8-13/16") (1)
8506 Straight Track 108.6mm (4-1/4") (1)
8510 Curved Track R145mm (5-3/4") 45 Degree (1)
8520 Curved Track R195mm (7-11/16") 45 Degree (11)
8521 Curved Track R195mm (7-11/16) 30 Degree (7)
8530 Curved Track R220mm (8-11/16") 45 Degree (1)
8531 Curved Track R220mm (8-11/16") 30 Degree (2)
8563R Turnout Straight Right Remote 110mm 4-3/8" Radius 13 Degree R490mm (19-1/4") (3)
8568L Turnout Curved Left Remote 125mm 4-5/16" Radius 30 Degree R195mm (7-11/16") (1)
8954 Isolating Rail Joiners (1 kit)
7272 Switch Controller (1)

Or use Rokuhan track which may be cheaper and has built in roadbed. Also available from Noch. (E.G. Noch cat no, 97401 = Rokuhan A001 feeder cable) I don't have the track numbers to hand but they are easy enough to find on the web.) There are no feeder tracks as any length of track can easily be made into a feeder by ejecting an insert and pushing in the feeder cable. If I do build another Z scale layout that is what I will use.

Hope that helps.

Chris.

Hope that helps.
Offline Z-nerd  
#26 Posted : 30 October 2012 17:45:46(UTC)
Z-nerd

Sweden   
Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Originally Posted by: Breitenfurt Go to Quoted Post
N scale is almost itentical to Z scale, well near enough that they can use the same Noch kit.

Track required is:

8503 Straight Track 55mm (2-3/16") (2)
8504 Straight Track 25mm (1") (1)
8505 Straight Track 220mm (8-13/16") (1)
8506 Straight Track 108.6mm (4-1/4") (1)
8510 Curved Track R145mm (5-3/4") 45 Degree (1)
8520 Curved Track R195mm (7-11/16") 45 Degree (11)
8521 Curved Track R195mm (7-11/16) 30 Degree (7)
8530 Curved Track R220mm (8-11/16") 45 Degree (1)
8531 Curved Track R220mm (8-11/16") 30 Degree (2)
8563R Turnout Straight Right Remote 110mm 4-3/8" Radius 13 Degree R490mm (19-1/4") (3)
8568L Turnout Curved Left Remote 125mm 4-5/16" Radius 30 Degree R195mm (7-11/16") (1)
8954 Isolating Rail Joiners (1 kit)
7272 Switch Controller (1)

Or use Rokuhan track which may be cheaper and has built in roadbed. Also available from Noch. (E.G. Noch cat no, 97401 = Rokuhan A001 feeder cable) I don't have the track numbers to hand but they are easy enough to find on the web.) There are no feeder tracks as any length of track can easily be made into a feeder by ejecting an insert and pushing in the feeder cable. If I do build another Z scale layout that is what I will use.

Hope that helps.

Chris.

Hope that helps.


Where did you find this information ? The Noch website only shows the N-scale tracks.

Do you have a scheme showing how to put the tracks together ?

No dealer selling ROHUKAN in Sweden. Also heard the tracks are not 100% compatible with the Märklin rolling stock, especially not the turnouts. I mostly buy second hand Märklin rails. I don't think I will combine with other brands..

Now I need those 11 pieces of 8520 !!

What about the Noch suitcase layouts with electric turnouts, can they be electricly manouvered with 9V batteries?
Offline Breitenfurt  
#27 Posted : 30 October 2012 18:06:16(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: Z-nerd Go to Quoted Post
Where did you find this information ? The Noch website only shows the N-scale tracks.
Not sure. It was a shop in the USA 'cos they quoted the cost as about $300.
Quote:
Do you have a scheme showing how to put the tracks together ?
Sorry, no.
Quote:
No dealer selling ROHUKAN in Sweden. Also heard the tracks are not 100% compatible with the Märklin rolling stock, especially not the turnouts. I mostly buy second hand Märklin rails. I don't think I will combine with other brands.
No, that's fair enough. I just tried it for a test track without turnouts. Maybe I won't use it after all.
Quote:
Now I need those 11 pieces of 8520 !!
Yupp!!
Quote:
What about the Noch suitcase layouts with electric turnouts, can they be electricly manouvered with 9V batteries?
Just tried i for you and the test turnout did change but it was quite weak. I guess you will need the batteries to be in good charge. Alternatively build a 9V pack with C or D size.

Hope that helps.
Chris.

Offline Z-nerd  
#28 Posted : 30 October 2012 18:48:30(UTC)
Z-nerd

Sweden   
Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Originally Posted by: Breitenfurt Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Z-nerd Go to Quoted Post
Where did you find this information ? The Noch website only shows the N-scale tracks.
Not sure. It was a shop in the USA 'cos they quoted the cost as about $300.,
Hope that helps.
Chris.



What ? Can I trust your information about required tracks or did you guess ?
Offline Breitenfurt  
#29 Posted : 30 October 2012 22:32:18(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
You can trust it. It was an official list and can be found via Google though it took me a while. I am up to my eyes with work here and don't have time to go searching for it again.
Chris.
Offline Z-nerd  
#30 Posted : 17 November 2012 20:44:55(UTC)
Z-nerd

Sweden   
Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Linköping, Sweden
The work continues on my version of the Noch Blumenau Toporama

UserPostedImage
The tunnel is equipped with a portal

UserPostedImage
I bought a buffer stop


UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
This is the required Märklin curved bridge

UserPostedImage

This overpass is a bit tricky to get right, there is a limited space between the two tracks.
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