Joined: 21/01/2010(UTC) Posts: 5 Location: Sweden
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Hello, My first post here, my name is Lars, I used to enjoy my model railroad when I was between 8-13 years old, then other intressts came in the way. Well, not for my dad, he still enjoys it, probebly because it reminds him of the Märklin railroad he had as a kid. The problem for him is: when I lost intrest, I tore down the HO scale railroad we had built in my room (A quite basic traintrack, but we enjoyed it. I belive we had about 9 engines and maybe 40 different wagons? We mostly bought used items from the 60ths as we found them more appelaing then the modern plastic trains). But allright, enough about that: Ever since I torn down the railroad track, my dad has been dreaming about having a new one, right now our trains are collecting dust and well he sometimes brings out a few pieces of track and build a small railroad which he can sit with for hours. This can not go on. So now, in a few months he is turning 60, and I think its time for me to make up for my evil deed (That is, destroying our railroad): I want to give him a small railroad in a suitcase, a märklin Z-Scale. I have seen the pre-built ones but not only are they quite expensive, but I would also lose the chance to build one to him myself (I have done it once and belive I could do it again :) ). Im planning to buy a used old suitcase, this starter set: http://www.maerklinshop....f7499bb&anid=M081560 and then build the rest. I would need help with the following, which track pieces do I need to build a track like this: http://www.station500.com/picture/noch/88100_1.jpgA small list of Z-track pieces from märklin with their article number would be fantastic if anyone could provide me with. Thanks in advance! Best regards: Lars
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Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 874 Location: Scotland
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Hi lars. Welcome to the forum.
According to Noch, for their 87060/87065 Blumenau/Tannheim layout (the layout without the case that you referenced) you will need:
1 8503 Straight Track 55mm (2-3/16") 4 8504 Straight Track 25mm (1") 1 8506 Straight Track 108.6mm (4-1/4") 16 8510 Curved Track R145mm (5-3/4") 45 Degree 1 8521 Curved Track R195mm (7-11/16") 30 Degree 1 8565 Manual Turnout 1 8977 Curved Bridge Ramp 1 8991 Track Bumper/Buffer
I have to admit that I haven't worked out how it all goes together even after messing about for 30 minutes in a track planning program. Looking at one of the many photos on the web (http://www.coolturisme.com/Ebay/aucfantista/tin-toys/date10/10.5-marklin-a-1.jpg) it looks as if there has been some easement of the inner loop joints to make it all fit otherwise the loop would, in fact, be a circle.
Anyway, I hope that helps. |
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Joined: 09/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 972 Location: North Wiltshire
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Hi Lars,
Welcome! In choosing Z gauge you may have picked probably the most challenging, but for your circumstances probably the best, option.
Bearing in mind what Chris said, I would suggest you find your suitcase first (it would need to be very sturdy and not too deep, I'd have thought) and then plan the layout to fit the space. The circuit you're interested in is fairly standard.
Hope this helps,
Pete |
Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free trip around the sun every year.
Z Scale is great - where's me glasses? |
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Joined: 09/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 972 Location: North Wiltshire
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Chris Manvell wrote:Hi lars. Welcome to the forum.
According to Noch, for their 87060/87065 Blumenau/Tannheim layout (the layout without the case that you referenced) you will need:
1 8503 Straight Track 55mm (2-3/16") 4 8504 Straight Track 25mm (1") 1 8506 Straight Track 108.6mm (4-1/4") 16 8510 Curved Track R145mm (5-3/4") 45 Degree 1 8521 Curved Track R195mm (7-11/16") 30 Degree 1 8565 Manual Turnout 1 8977 Curved Bridge Ramp 1 8991 Track Bumper/Buffer
I have to admit that I haven't worked out how it all goes together even after messing about for 30 minutes in a track planning program. Looking at one of the many photos on the web (http://www.coolturisme.com/Ebay/aucfantista/tin-toys/date10/10.5-marklin-a-1.jpg) it looks as if there has been some easement of the inner loop joints to make it all fit otherwise the loop would, in fact, be a circle.
Anyway, I hope that helps. Hi Chris, I tried and didn't get anywhere, either - until I added 2x8504's - but it still doesn't look the same. |
Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free trip around the sun every year.
Z Scale is great - where's me glasses? |
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Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 874 Location: Scotland
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Hi Pete.
Yes, I had a pretty close look at several photos of the layout and they all tended to indicate that the right side of the inner loop was stretched slightly and that the left side was compressed so that by the time it got hack to the 'top' of the layout it was an inch away from the upper track. With a slightly larger case one could do it the correct case but it probably works fine as it as each joint would have about 2 degrees error. Anyway, it must work otherwise Noch wouldn't be doing it. (I know it works as I have a few 'strained' joints on my own layout.
All the best, Chris. |
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Joined: 09/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 972 Location: North Wiltshire
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Hi Chris,
It makes me wonder why they bother! Surely it would be just as easy to produce these without easement? |
Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free trip around the sun every year.
Z Scale is great - where's me glasses? |
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Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 874 Location: Scotland
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I think the case is a standard size and only just large enough to manage it with the easement.
Chris. |
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Joined: 09/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 972 Location: North Wiltshire
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Chris Manvell wrote:I think the case is a standard size and only just large enough to manage it with the easement.
Chris. Probably. I've just found this on the Noch website! Pete |
Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free trip around the sun every year.
Z Scale is great - where's me glasses? |
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Joined: 21/01/2010(UTC) Posts: 5 Location: Sweden
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Wow! Thank you all very much so far! So, I would need to do some slight modifications to the tracks? Is there any other similar track plan you could help me with? A quite basic one but not just a round circle. I will go and look for a suitcase this week, got a feeling that this small birthday project might take some time, so might as well get started ASAP.
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Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 874 Location: Scotland
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Hi Lars. Probably best to wait until we know the internal dimensions of the case you have bought. As far as the plan you were thinking of is concerned there is no need to modify the individual track pieces, it would be a case of making up the larger loop complete with the straight that goes under the bridge. Then to make up the smaller loop and joining it up to the larger one and letting the track set up the slight discrepancy itself. The tracks being used are the smallest radius (145mm) so the Noch 'baseboard' is pretty well the smallest size one can use. The next radius up is 195mm which requires a minimum board width of 395mm. Not impossible though you might have a some difficulty finding a good Aluminium/rigid case that INTERNAL size. They probably do exist.
Good luck. Chris. |
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Joined: 21/01/2010(UTC) Posts: 5 Location: Sweden
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Hello!
Ah thank you, what internal dimensions would a case need to fit this kind of track layout pictured?
Best regards
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Joined: 09/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 972 Location: North Wiltshire
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Lars wrote:Hello!
Ah thank you, what internal dimensions would a case need to fit this kind of track layout pictured?
Best regards I think this could be a chicken and egg question. You'd be better off finding the case you'd like, bearing in mind Chris' comments about internal dimensions relating to the radius of the curves. 145mm radius curves would need a case depth of at least 305mm for a basic oval, but if you want to elevate a section or do something more, it would have to be deeper(front to back) Pete |
Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free trip around the sun every year.
Z Scale is great - where's me glasses? |
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Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,704 Location: United Kingdom
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Hi and Welcome to the forum, Lars. |
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
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Joined: 21/01/2010(UTC) Posts: 5 Location: Sweden
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Hi,
Thanks all again, I will head out the the second hand shop nearby to see what kind of briefcases they have. Maybe if I find a litle bigger bag, like a old style travelbag, I will use that instead, and maybe build a little bigger traintrack. I let you all know when I have found a bag the dimensions, so maybe I could recive some more help with the track-layout.
Oh and Btw, since Im only used to the märklin H0 Scale. Is there anything to think about when it comes to the Z-scale, like how to take care of the trains? What not to do and so on?
Best regards
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Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 874 Location: Scotland
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The case used by Noch is ext. 50x37x12cm and the 'board' is 47x34x10cm which, of course, would be the int. dimensions for the case.
Bets wishes, Chris. |
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Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC) Posts: 95 Location: Linköping, Sweden
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I have ordered the rails needed, I will soon find out if the Noch Blumenau trackplan is working in reality. Does someone know what type of potentiometer is used in the Noch Blumenau ? How many ohms ?  
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Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 874 Location: Scotland
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Good luck Lars. Keep us up to date with your progress please.
All the best, Chris. |
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Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC) Posts: 95 Location: Linköping, Sweden
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Originally Posted by: Breitenfurt  Hi Pete.
Yes, I had a pretty close look at several photos of the layout and they all tended to indicate that the right side of the inner loop was stretched slightly and that the left side was compressed so that by the time it got hack to the 'top' of the layout it was an inch away from the upper track. With a slightly larger case one could do it the correct case but it probably works fine as it as each joint would have about 2 degrees error. Anyway, it must work otherwise Noch wouldn't be doing it. (I know it works as I have a few 'strained' joints on my own layout.
All the best, Chris. I received the rails needed for this Blumenau layout. It matches perfectly without any adjustments or errors. I could buy this layout (No dealers where I live) but it's more fun to build my own, I will try to make a copy of the original Noch Blumenau toporama. It takes some time, but I'm seeing some progress already.  
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Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 874 Location: Scotland
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Hi Lars.
Looking good. I guess that just some of the curved tracks have to be a slightly larger radius to give that configuration.
Best wishes, Chris. |
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Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC) Posts: 95 Location: Linköping, Sweden
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Originally Posted by: Breitenfurt  Hi Lars.
Looking good. I guess that just some of the curved tracks have to be a slightly larger radius to give that configuration.
Best wishes, Chris. Just follow the Noch trackplan posted in this thread and everything fits. Only the small radius 8510 curved tracks are used. The 1/4 straight tracks 8804 make the outer ring look like the radius of the outer curves is bigger. BTW my name is not Lars.
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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I'm confused. What happened to Lars? Where did Z - Nerd come from in this thread? |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 874 Location: Scotland
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Originally Posted by: Z-nerd  Just follow the Noch trackplan posted in this thread and everything fits. Only the small radius 8510 curved tracks are used. The 1/4 straight tracks 8804 make the outer ring look like the radius of the outer curves is bigger. BTW my name is not Lars. Sorry Lars, just me being stupid. 25mm straight; 25mm centre to centre tracks! All the best, Chris. |
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Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 874 Location: Scotland
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Originally Posted by: RayF  I'm confused. What happened to Lars? Where did Z - Nerd come from in this thread? Now that you point it put, I'm confused too! Chris. |
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Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC) Posts: 95 Location: Linköping, Sweden
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I need the trackplan for Noch Sonnenalpe in Z. can only find the N-versions.
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Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 874 Location: Scotland
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N scale is almost itentical to Z scale, well near enough that they can use the same Noch kit.
Track required is:
8503 Straight Track 55mm (2-3/16") (2) 8504 Straight Track 25mm (1") (1) 8505 Straight Track 220mm (8-13/16") (1) 8506 Straight Track 108.6mm (4-1/4") (1) 8510 Curved Track R145mm (5-3/4") 45 Degree (1) 8520 Curved Track R195mm (7-11/16") 45 Degree (11) 8521 Curved Track R195mm (7-11/16) 30 Degree (7) 8530 Curved Track R220mm (8-11/16") 45 Degree (1) 8531 Curved Track R220mm (8-11/16") 30 Degree (2) 8563R Turnout Straight Right Remote 110mm 4-3/8" Radius 13 Degree R490mm (19-1/4") (3) 8568L Turnout Curved Left Remote 125mm 4-5/16" Radius 30 Degree R195mm (7-11/16") (1) 8954 Isolating Rail Joiners (1 kit) 7272 Switch Controller (1)
Or use Rokuhan track which may be cheaper and has built in roadbed. Also available from Noch. (E.G. Noch cat no, 97401 = Rokuhan A001 feeder cable) I don't have the track numbers to hand but they are easy enough to find on the web.) There are no feeder tracks as any length of track can easily be made into a feeder by ejecting an insert and pushing in the feeder cable. If I do build another Z scale layout that is what I will use.
Hope that helps.
Chris.
Hope that helps. |
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Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC) Posts: 95 Location: Linköping, Sweden
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Originally Posted by: Breitenfurt  N scale is almost itentical to Z scale, well near enough that they can use the same Noch kit.
Track required is:
8503 Straight Track 55mm (2-3/16") (2) 8504 Straight Track 25mm (1") (1) 8505 Straight Track 220mm (8-13/16") (1) 8506 Straight Track 108.6mm (4-1/4") (1) 8510 Curved Track R145mm (5-3/4") 45 Degree (1) 8520 Curved Track R195mm (7-11/16") 45 Degree (11) 8521 Curved Track R195mm (7-11/16) 30 Degree (7) 8530 Curved Track R220mm (8-11/16") 45 Degree (1) 8531 Curved Track R220mm (8-11/16") 30 Degree (2) 8563R Turnout Straight Right Remote 110mm 4-3/8" Radius 13 Degree R490mm (19-1/4") (3) 8568L Turnout Curved Left Remote 125mm 4-5/16" Radius 30 Degree R195mm (7-11/16") (1) 8954 Isolating Rail Joiners (1 kit) 7272 Switch Controller (1)
Or use Rokuhan track which may be cheaper and has built in roadbed. Also available from Noch. (E.G. Noch cat no, 97401 = Rokuhan A001 feeder cable) I don't have the track numbers to hand but they are easy enough to find on the web.) There are no feeder tracks as any length of track can easily be made into a feeder by ejecting an insert and pushing in the feeder cable. If I do build another Z scale layout that is what I will use.
Hope that helps.
Chris.
Hope that helps. Where did you find this information ? The Noch website only shows the N-scale tracks. Do you have a scheme showing how to put the tracks together ? No dealer selling ROHUKAN in Sweden. Also heard the tracks are not 100% compatible with the Märklin rolling stock, especially not the turnouts. I mostly buy second hand Märklin rails. I don't think I will combine with other brands.. Now I need those 11 pieces of 8520 !! What about the Noch suitcase layouts with electric turnouts, can they be electricly manouvered with 9V batteries?
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Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 874 Location: Scotland
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Originally Posted by: Z-nerd  Where did you find this information ? The Noch website only shows the N-scale tracks. Not sure. It was a shop in the USA 'cos they quoted the cost as about $300. Quote:Do you have a scheme showing how to put the tracks together ? Sorry, no. Quote:No dealer selling ROHUKAN in Sweden. Also heard the tracks are not 100% compatible with the Märklin rolling stock, especially not the turnouts. I mostly buy second hand Märklin rails. I don't think I will combine with other brands. No, that's fair enough. I just tried it for a test track without turnouts. Maybe I won't use it after all. Quote:Now I need those 11 pieces of 8520 !! Yupp!! Quote:What about the Noch suitcase layouts with electric turnouts, can they be electricly manouvered with 9V batteries? Just tried i for you and the test turnout did change but it was quite weak. I guess you will need the batteries to be in good charge. Alternatively build a 9V pack with C or D size. Hope that helps. Chris. |
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Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC) Posts: 95 Location: Linköping, Sweden
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Originally Posted by: Breitenfurt  Originally Posted by: Z-nerd  Where did you find this information ? The Noch website only shows the N-scale tracks. Not sure. It was a shop in the USA 'cos they quoted the cost as about $300., Hope that helps. Chris. What ? Can I trust your information about required tracks or did you guess ?
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Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 874 Location: Scotland
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You can trust it. It was an official list and can be found via Google though it took me a while. I am up to my eyes with work here and don't have time to go searching for it again. Chris. |
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Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC) Posts: 95 Location: Linköping, Sweden
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