New Haven Box Car 4573 - Real or Fake ? Share  Email this topic  LinkBack Topic URL  Retweet this Topic  Share Topic on Google+  Like this Topic  Share on Facebook  Digg this Topic  Reddit this Topic  Share on Tumblr Options  Watch this topic  Print this topic View » Normal Threaded

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5HorizonsRR		#1 Posted : 30 April 2012 22:50:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		See this link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/...&hash=item4ab6ddd7b7 My vote is fake, painted on a railbox donor car. Well done though! Edited by user 04 May 2012 20:27:00(UTC)  | Reason: added#
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kbvrod		#2 Posted : 30 April 2012 23:05:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,597 Location: Beverly, MA		Hi John,all, No M number,..... Still very nice. Dr D
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Iamnotthecrazyone		#3 Posted : 30 April 2012 23:46:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,048		There is nothing wrong with that car and doesn't look repainted at all. I believe it may have come in a set of American cars in the last 15 years or so. It is likely to be worth less than the original brown -even if rarer- but that's just my guess.
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5HorizonsRR		#4 Posted : 01 May 2012 00:06:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		I just took a closer look. It has clearly been painted over the yellow railbox car. Look on the floor in the image where the door is open, and the tape mark between the main "N" and "H", andso there is yellow showing in a few other spots. A very well done car! Just not Marklin factory as advertised so beware...
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Iamnotthecrazyone		#5 Posted : 01 May 2012 00:47:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,048		Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR I just took a closer look. It has clearly been painted over the yellow railbox car. Look on the floor in the image where the door is open, and the tape mark between the main "N" and "H", andso there is yellow showing in a few other spots. A very well done car! Just not Marklin factory as advertised so beware... I can see the yellow you are referring to but to me that's just the undercoat. Otherwise why would they have bothered to dissasemble it (look at the tabs under the floor) reasemble it scratching the tabs too and not bother painting the inside of the wagon instead of leaving it yellow? I don't see anything wrong between the N and the H. The only thing that does bring some doubt to me are the plastic ends. One seem to be painted on both sides and one seem to be yellow on the inside but I have seen enough weird stuff and mistake problems with original Marklin trains that I still feel this is original. Hopefully someone else who has it could shed some light on it but to me that one came on a set of wholesale box cars or a set of cars in the last few years but I just don't remember exactly when.
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5HorizonsRR		#6 Posted : 01 May 2012 08:01:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		Originally Posted by: Iamnotthecrazyone I can see the yellow you are referring to but to me that's just the undercoat. Otherwise why would they have bothered to dissasemble it (look at the tabs under the floor) reasemble it scratching the tabs too and not bother painting the inside of the wagon instead of leaving it yellow? I don't see anything wrong between the N and the H. The only thing that does bring some doubt to me are the plastic ends. One seem to be painted on both sides and one seem to be yellow on the inside but I have seen enough weird stuff and mistake problems with original Marklin trains that I still feel this is original. Hopefully someone else who has it could shed some light on it but to me that one came on a set of wholesale box cars or a set of cars in the last few years but I just don't remember exactly when. Marklin used stamped metal in solid colors and didn't spray over it except for the lettering. If you look on the bottom of the N you will see that previously mentioned paint/tape line, it isn't a machine line as its not even. Also, for the same solid color metal reasoning there wouldn't be paint flaking on the interior if original, and there a few bubbles on the side when you zoom in. Lastly, the lettering on the car is either a decal or a transfer, Marklin's was not Couple that with the fact that Marklin never made the metal boxcars in a wholesale set, and no New Haven except the original brown one, and its a faker (not trying tho raise doubt, just point this out to potential bidders, two of whom have reached out to me about this car)
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3rail4life		#7 Posted : 03 May 2012 09:22:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 426 Location: Northern California		I remember a bit about when this car was produced but most of the details escape me now. I know there are a few of them out there and they were done in the late 1980's or early 1990's as some kind of special edition car for who knows who? I somehow thought they were from Märklin Inc./USA or maybe just painted by Marklin Inc. for a dealer as a one off promotional item, maybe?. I really wish I could remember all the details as I had totally forgotten about it until I saw it again in the ebay auction. I am sure there has to be someone else on here from the states who was collecting or selling back then that remembers who commissioned or sold this repainted car. Gordon
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Iamnotthecrazyone		#8 Posted : 04 May 2012 00:28:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,048		I don't know about the rest but one thing I was wrong about and that was my guess about the price. Still four hours to go and it is up to $133 with lots of interest from different bidders.
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Yumgui		#9 Posted : 04 May 2012 19:17:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,660 Location: Paris, France		Hmm, Before even reading this thread, I had decided that this car was mine ... and now it is ! Why pay such a nutty price for a possibly "fake" Märklin USA freight car ? Well first, just have a look at my avatar ... ^^ Second, I have always been left a bit hanging with the 3 "official" brown versions I have; even going to the extent of recently buying 3 Branchline Trains "Yardmaster Series" very nicely detailed orange NH cars ... to be fitted soon with AC wheels and trucks ! While the quality of the paint job, whatever the process (I'll know more when I receive the item), convinced me to go for it ... I am now very curious following this discussion to know if this item was part of some Märklin "sondermodell" program, or not ... I certainly haven't found anything in Koll's (yet?) ... Any info would be greatly appreciated, and of course I'll post here any that I may find ... this could be a quiz. Yum
		If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out ! Working on: https://studiogang.com/projects/all My heavy train station renovation: https://youtu.be/QQlyNiq416A Inspired by: http://www.nakedmarklin.com/... Am not alone in this universe, phew.
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jvuye		#10 Posted : 04 May 2012 19:31:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France		Originally Posted by: Yumgui I certainly haven't found anything in Koll's (yet?) ... Any info would be greatly appreciated, and of course I'll post here any that I may find ... this could be a quiz. Yum Hi "Yum"! I can tell you already it is *no* Märklin original, albeit a very nice job! If in the future, your fantasy brings up *any* paint scheme, let me know by MP I have found a guy in Belgium who does wonders...at very decent rates! See example below, for the Rio Grande "B" unit (which accidentally, is a repaint of a NH B-unit...sorry to hurt you! ) Cheers jvuye attached the following image(s):
		Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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igf2		#11 Posted : 04 May 2012 19:33:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/04/2010(UTC) Posts: 268 Location: France		Hi Yum I was one of the two who raised the auction at that level (133,33 USD)... But you won it. Well done. I am happy it's you who beat me ! Best regards Jean-Pierre
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jvuye		#12 Posted : 04 May 2012 19:37:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France		Originally Posted by: igf2 Hi Yum I was one of the two who raised the auction at that level (133,33 USD)... But you won it. Well done. I am happy it's you who beat me ! Best regards Jean-Pierre Sort of like : "Staying within the French relatives"
		Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Yumgui		#13 Posted : 04 May 2012 19:39:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,660 Location: Paris, France		Jacques ! Originally Posted by: jvuye See example below, for the Rio Grande "B" unit (which accidentally, is a repaint of a NH B-unit...sorry to hurt you! ) Hahaha ... this does hurt ^^ , how could anyone favor Rio Grande over New Haven ??? Anyway, I am certainly not against good craftsmanship, on the contrary I seek it out ! In fact have some beautifully strange wagons which I mean to post soon for help with identification ... And your suggestion for the Belgian craftsman is noted ^^ Will PM soon ^^ Y
		If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out ! Working on: https://studiogang.com/projects/all My heavy train station renovation: https://youtu.be/QQlyNiq416A Inspired by: http://www.nakedmarklin.com/... Am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Yumgui		#14 Posted : 04 May 2012 19:41:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,660 Location: Paris, France		Hah, Jean-Pierre : Originally Posted by: igf2 I was one of the two who raised the auction at that level (133,33 USD)... But you won it. Well done. I am happy it's you who beat me ! You are nuts to pay so much for such an item ^^ ! We will have to talk soon, I hope ... Y PS: Btw ... I messaged the owner asking if he has any info on the origin of this car .. no answer yet, not even an invoice ! Dude is prolly on vacation ... hmpf ;P
		If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out ! Working on: https://studiogang.com/projects/all My heavy train station renovation: https://youtu.be/QQlyNiq416A Inspired by: http://www.nakedmarklin.com/... Am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Webmaster		#15 Posted : 04 May 2012 19:56:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,165		I recognize the paint scheme from some old M catalog, presumably from my youth in the 60's-early 70's... Have seen it before...
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Yumgui		#16 Posted : 04 May 2012 19:58:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,660 Location: Paris, France		Mr J, If you find that reference, I'll fly to your house and buy you a beer ! Y
		If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out ! Working on: https://studiogang.com/projects/all My heavy train station renovation: https://youtu.be/QQlyNiq416A Inspired by: http://www.nakedmarklin.com/... Am not alone in this universe, phew.
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5HorizonsRR		#17 Posted : 04 May 2012 20:10:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		Congrats! Enjoy the car and the craftsmanship- remember the price isn't crazy at all if you value the labor time that went into painting it!
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5HorizonsRR		#18 Posted : 04 May 2012 20:12:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		Also- I forgot to mention- it did come in these colors from Marklin- but in Z gauge!
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Yumgui		#19 Posted : 04 May 2012 20:22:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,660 Location: Paris, France		Hiya 5HRR ! Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Congrats! Enjoy the car and the craftsmanship- remember the price isn't crazy at all if you value the labor time that went into painting it! You're right, you just made me feel better about this latest folly ^^ ! See PM plz ... Yum
		If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out ! Working on: https://studiogang.com/projects/all My heavy train station renovation: https://youtu.be/QQlyNiq416A Inspired by: http://www.nakedmarklin.com/... Am not alone in this universe, phew.
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igf2		#20 Posted : 04 May 2012 21:08:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/04/2010(UTC) Posts: 268 Location: France		Hi Jacques You are right : it seems to be a club within the club ! Dear Yum I Will soon show you a few special issues.
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steventrain		#21 Posted : 04 May 2012 21:22:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,705 Location: United Kingdom		Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR See this link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/...&hash=item4ab6ddd7b7 My vote is fake, painted on a railbox donor car. Well done though! I have never see it before.
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Iamnotthecrazyone		#22 Posted : 04 May 2012 22:21:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,048		Originally Posted by: Yumgui Hmm, Before even reading this thread, I had decided that this car was mine ... and now it is ! Haha, I was wondering if all this silence before meant some people here were interested and wanted to keep it as quiet as possible. Congratulations on a very nice car, once you get it I'd like to hear your opinion about the originality. Even if it isn't it is a very good job and you would have paid that money to have it done by someone else. During the auction I did contact the seller and he said he couldn't find any reference to it either. It's a shame I don't remember anymore but a couple of years ago I thought it was released in one of those multipackage 20 or 40 american cars that most dealers tend to split up. I did some research and it doesn't appear on the ones I can find listed. I have a Koll spezial items but it is too old and it does not appear there either, I should probably by a more recent one. I prefer New Haven to Rio Grande too! Enjoy! BTW:Do you know there is a different NH in this set?HERE
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igf2		#23 Posted : 04 May 2012 22:22:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/04/2010(UTC) Posts: 268 Location: France		Hello Jum Here are some pictures of 3 very special New Haven Marklin items which are in my collection... I hope you will enjoy this first extract.
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Iamnotthecrazyone		#24 Posted : 04 May 2012 22:36:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,048		Nice, I was actually planning to buy the Fleischmann version of that loco whenever I can pick up a cheap example.
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kimballthurlow		#25 Posted : 04 May 2012 23:12:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,769 Location: Brisbane, Australia		Hi Yum, Congratulations on buying the metal NH car. As you say, regardless of the origins, it is a nice addition to your NH items. The fact that it is a real metal car,makes it a purchase that has intrinsic value anyway. regards Kimball
		HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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3rail4life		#26 Posted : 06 May 2012 02:23:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC) Posts: 426 Location: Northern California		Congratulations Yum on winning the auction! I can not believe no one here knows the origins of this car and that I have forgotten them, there is such a powerhouse of knowledge here you would think someone here remembers this car when it was being offered back in the day. I was thinking maybe Scott at Helmut's Hobbies might remember it, he was selling special items back then. Had I purchased it back when I had the chance, you can be sure I would know every detail even if had to make some of them up , but since it was not a catalog item or ma. special imprint, I passed, I guess that was a mistake
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Iamnotthecrazyone		#27 Posted : 22 May 2014 09:17:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,048		Originally Posted by: Yumgui Hmm, Before even reading this thread, I had decided that this car was mine ... and now it is ! Why pay such a nutty price for a possibly "fake" Märklin USA freight car ? Well first, just have a look at my avatar ... ^^ Second, I have always been left a bit hanging with the 3 "official" brown versions I have; even going to the extent of recently buying 3 Branchline Trains "Yardmaster Series" very nicely detailed orange NH cars ... to be fitted soon with AC wheels and trucks ! While the quality of the paint job, whatever the process (I'll know more when I receive the item), convinced me to go for it ... I am now very curious following this discussion to know if this item was part of some Märklin "sondermodell" program, or not ... I certainly haven't found anything in Koll's (yet?) ... Any info would be greatly appreciated, and of course I'll post here any that I may find ... this could be a quiz. Yum Hi, I wonder if it might be easy to post a photo of this New Haven car, I'd like to see it again. If too much trouble don't worry about it. Thanks
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Yumgui		#28 Posted : 24 May 2014 23:45:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,660 Location: Paris, France		Originally Posted by: Iamnotthecrazyone Hi, I wonder if it might be easy to post a photo of this New Haven car, I'd like to see it again. If too much trouble don't worry about it. Thanks OK Iam, My apologies for letting this post, and a few others, "get away" ... no excuse ! Will respond asap ... Y
		If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out ! Working on: https://studiogang.com/projects/all My heavy train station renovation: https://youtu.be/QQlyNiq416A Inspired by: http://www.nakedmarklin.com/... Am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Iamnotthecrazyone		#29 Posted : 25 May 2014 05:22:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,048		Thanks, I remember I like it but I couldn't remember if it was nicer than the 2013 release. I
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Frankenbahner		#30 Posted : 25 May 2014 10:18:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 625 Location: Nuremberg, Bavaria		I would prefer the term "repaint" for models like this: someone invested a lot of work to create a very special car. Another way to add to your fleet of American Märklin cars means fitting cars from American brands with Märklin bogies. Not those plastic cars, but those with classic tin-plate (such as Varney) or wooden car bodies (such as Ambroid), like this one: Or these Model Power Metaltrain cars, which come with die-cast car bodies: Regards, Florian
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