Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 250 Location: united kingdom
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Hello Guys. When did Marklin make the first models of the famous "TEE" Trans Europe Express coaches and what were the model numbers please ? Were they metal construction or plastic bodied ? Regards Neil. 20-VOLT-AC attached the following image(s): |
1950's Marklin Fan . |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,463 Location: DE-NW
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Hi, Neil,
They made #4055 through #4059 back in 1966 - all 24 cm tin-plate DB TEE coaches.
The Swiss TEE RAm 3070/4070 is listed with 1965.
TEE service started 1957, so there may be older coaches by Märklin.
BTW: the name is Trans Europ Express. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
 1 user liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 250 Location: united kingdom
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Originally Posted by: H0  Hi, Neil,
They made #4055 through #4059 back in 1966 - all 24 cm tin-plate coaches.
TEE service started 1957, so there may be older coaches by Märklin.
BTW: the name is Trans Europ Express. Hi Tom. Thanks so much for your knowledge on the TEE question. Regards Neil. |
1950's Marklin Fan . |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,463 Location: DE-NW
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Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 250 Location: united kingdom
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Originally Posted by: H0  Hi, Neil,
They made #4055 through #4059 back in 1966 - all 24 cm tin-plate DB TEE coaches.
The Swiss TEE RAm 3070/4070 is listed with 1965.
TEE service started 1957, so there may be older coaches by Märklin.
BTW: the name is Trans Europ Express. Which Marklin coach would be used as a LUGGAGE coach in the TEE coach set when making up a train please ? Thanks Neil. |
1950's Marklin Fan . |
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Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 250 Location: united kingdom
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Which Marklin "DB" locomotive would pull these TEE coaches please ?
Regards Neil.
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1950's Marklin Fan . |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,463 Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: 20-VOLT-AC  Which Marklin coach would be used as a LUGGAGE coach in the TEE coach set when making up a train please? None. AFAIK there were no luggage cars in TEE, InterCity, InterRegio, or era III Rheingold trains. It seems there never were TEE coloured luggage cars. IC trains had a single compartment reserved for IC Kurier for urgent parcels, but baggage was carried by other trains. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,463 Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: 20-VOLT-AC  Which Marklin "DB" locomotive would pull these TEE coaches please? Any electric loco in TEE livery (BR E 03, BR 103, BR E 10.12, BR 112), a BR V 200, BR 210, or a blue BR 110 will also do. These are the typical locomotives, but list is probably incomplete. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,802 Location: Wurttemberg
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Hi Neil,
The luggage-compartment of the early RHEINGOLD and RHEINPFEIL- trains was in the "basement" of the dome-cars behind the folding doors. So this car was originally named AD4üm - 62 ("A"= 1st Class "D"= Luggage). Märklin sold the E 03/103 (3053, 3054 and various other numbers) for their TEE - coaches.
Regards
Markus
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Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
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Originally Posted by: Markus Schild  Hi Neil,
The luggage-compartment of the early RHEINGOLD and RHEINPFEIL- trains was in the "basement" of the dome-cars behind the folding doors. So this car was originally named AD4üm - 62 ("A"= 1st Class "D"= Luggage). Märklin sold the E 03/103 (3053, 3054 and various other numbers) for their TEE - coaches.
Regards
Markus Correct! Thanks Markus: we knew such a detail would not have escaped your sagacity! I'll just add also the 4058/4088 ARD4üm Bar cars (the ones marked "TRANS EUROP EXRESS") which contained a small luggage compartment, which was also used as a "service" compartment. Cheers |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
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Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 2,073 Location: Edinburgh,
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Hi Neil
24cm tin plates consisted of the following; 4085, 4086, 4087, 4088, 4089, 4090
The 4086 bar car seems the rarest, certainly when I went looking for one to make up the full set.
I use a BR103 for both my TEE consists.
Mike |
1957 - 1985 era What's digital? |
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Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 250 Location: united kingdom
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Originally Posted by: hennabm  Hi Neil
24cm tin plates consisted of the following; 4085, 4086, 4087, 4088, 4089, 4090
The 4086 bar car seems the rarest, certainly when I went looking for one to make up the full set.
I use a BR103 for both my TEE consists.
Mike Hello Mike. Thanks for the numbers, i just looked them up in my KOLL's guide and they are all photographed in there ! What colour is your BR103 please and the Marklin catalogue number please ? Thanks Neil. |
1950's Marklin Fan . |
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,243 Location: Montreal, QC
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If I remember, the original model numbers were 4055-4059. Similar models were later reissued under 4085-4090. The 4086 was a Apumh Open Seating coach and the 4088 was the ARDumh Bar coach.
Regards
Mike C
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Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 3,443
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For good orders sake,note the TEE Ram dieseltrain was a shared project between the Dutch NS and the Swiss SBB. In fact,it was the former CEO of NS who invented the TEE concept,back in 1957 or so. The design of the TEE Ram was a Dutch design. The dieselengines in the motorunit were Dutch built Stork-Werkspoor engines. A total of 5 trains were built,2 trains operated by NS,the other 3 trains operated by SBB. just to get the facts straight. I have the NS version of Maerklin in my collection.
Cheers, Paul. |
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare). |
 2 users liked this useful post by NS1200
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Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 2,073 Location: Edinburgh,
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Hi Neil my BR103s are both 3054. and both in TEE colours   One I bought in the 80s from a guy in the south of England and the other more recently via ebay.de I also have my eye on a BR114, number 3033 in TEE colours Mike |
1957 - 1985 era What's digital? |
 1 user liked this useful post by hennabm
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Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 2,073 Location: Edinburgh,
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Hi Mike
IIRC the early series of 4055 etc differed little from the later 4085 etc, as far as I can see.
The only major difference is that the early series were without interiors, whereas the 4085 etc came with interiors already fitted.
Mike |
1957 - 1985 era What's digital? |
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Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 2,073 Location: Edinburgh,
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Hi Paul thank you for the details on the TEE Mike |
1957 - 1985 era What's digital? |
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Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 250 Location: united kingdom
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Originally Posted by: hennabm  Hi Mike
IIRC the early series of 4055 etc differed little from the later 4085 etc, as far as I can see.
The only major difference is that the early series were without interiors, whereas the 4085 etc came with interiors already fitted.
Mike Hi Mike. Did the later version TEE coaches have interior lighting fitted as standard ? ( 4085 etc ) Neil. |
1950's Marklin Fan . |
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Was the Br120.0, in TEE colours, ever actually used in TEE service?  |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,243 Location: Montreal, QC
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Originally Posted by: NS1200  For good orders sake,note the TEE Ram dieseltrain was a shared project between the Dutch NS and the Swiss SBB. In fact,it was the former CEO of NS who invented the TEE concept,back in 1957 or so. The design of the TEE Ram was a Dutch design. The dieselengines in the motorunit were Dutch built Stork-Werkspoor engines. A total of 5 trains were built,2 trains operated by NS,the other 3 trains operated by SBB. just to get the facts straight. I have the NS version of Maerklin in my collection.
Cheers, Paul. Hi Paul, Slight correction. Of the 5 RAm/DE Diesel TEE Trainsets, 3 belonged to NS (DE 1001-1002-1003) and 2 belonged to SBB (RAm 501-502). The design of the RAm was a joint project between Swiss and Dutch companies. The power unit was designed by Werkspoor. The middle carriages and pilot coach were designed by SWS and SIG. Electronics for the train was designed by BBC. One of the two SBB trainsets was destroyed in the accident in Aitrang in 1971. The remaining 3 NS and 1 SBB trainsets continued to operate on the Edelweiss route until 1974. They were sold to a Canadian company and shipped to Canada in 1976. The last remaining segments of the trainsets were shipped back to Europe roughly a decade ago. A Swiss project to restore the train failed and the coaches are now in Holland waiting for a Dutch group to have a go at restoring the trainset. Regards Mike C
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Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 2,073 Location: Edinburgh,
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Hi Neil
I've had a look at the 1979 brochure (as an example) and it shows the lighting as an optional extra for the 4085> series
Mike |
1957 - 1985 era What's digital? |
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,243 Location: Montreal, QC
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Originally Posted by: 20-VOLT-AC  Hi Mike. Did the later version TEE coaches have interior lighting fitted as standard ? ( 4085 etc )
Neil.
I know that the 4089 (the Avmz with taillights) at one point came with factory installed lighting. I think that the remaining coaches required customer installation of slider and lights. Regards Mike C
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Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 2,073 Location: Edinburgh,
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Hi Ray good point on the BR120. I have a 1980 version so I too would like to know if it was ever used for TEE duties |
1957 - 1985 era What's digital? |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,463 Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: NS1200  I have the NS version of Maerklin in my collection. Märklin made the RAm 502 in 1965 and the NS DE 1001 in 1995. Since this thread is about the first TEE coaches, I only mentioned the 1965 model and not the 1995 model. It surely was a co-operation in 1:1 - but it took Märklin a long time to release the Dutch version. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,463 Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: RayF  Was the Br120.0, in TEE colours, ever actually used in TEE service? I dunno. BR 120.0 came in 1979. In 1979, most TEEs were replaced by InterCity trains. So I presume the trains looked like TEEs (with locos and coaches in TEE livery), but were not called TEEs. Don't forget the 2nd class coaches (blue/beige) for an IC '79. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 12/04/2002(UTC) Posts: 429 Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
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Would anyone be able to complete the list of Marklin SBB/NS RAm model numbers, whether they were SBB or NS and what the model differences are?
I'll have a go by starting what I think I know:
3070/4070 (first model - prone to coach warping, interior lighting?) SBB/NS? 3071/4071 (Second model - no interior lighting) 3150 (Northlander 4 part model - based on 3071? 5000 units, collectable it appears) 3071/4071 (Darker red version - mid 80's?) 3471 (Mid 90's 4 part DELTA - any details? NS?) 37500? (Northlander with F7? engine) 39700 (Early 2000's C Sine - interior details, lighting - I had one of these, did not like M Track...)
Roco Models? I see they have a few for AC, with sound, and a Northlander... |
Cheers
Stuart New Zealand
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,243 Location: Montreal, QC
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Originally Posted by: H0  Originally Posted by: NS1200  I have the NS version of Maerklin in my collection. Märklin made the RAm 502 in 1965 and the NS DE 1001 in 1995. Since this thread is about the first TEE coaches, I only mentioned the 1965 model and not the 1995 model. It surely was a co-operation in 1:1 - but it took Märklin a long time to release the Dutch version. The first model of the TEE Diesel trainset (3070) was the SBB RAm The second version (3071) was neither labelled for the RAm nor for the DE series, so Swiss modellers could pretend it was the RAm and Dutch modellers could pretend that it was one of the DE trainsets. I think that the final production of this model may have included lettering for SBB in the late 1980s. The 3471 Delta Set was indicated as SBB on the box, but the trainset itself is marked as one of the NS DE transits The final 39700 Sinus model was labelled SBB RAm RAm/DE TEE Models 3070 First model - 3 Pronged cables connecting cars, silver frames on windows, labelled as SBB RAm 3071 Second model - 2 Pronged cables connecting cars, transparent frames on windows, minimal lettering (SBB or NS?) 3471 Delta model - Special cable connectors, interior details and lights, labelled as NS DE 39700 Sinus model - Special cable connectors, interior details and lights, labelled as SBB RAm As far as I know, all models were labelled as TEE Edelweiss Roco 63120 SBB RAm Edelweiss (Set with track) 63121/69121 SBB RAm Edelweiss 63123 NS DE ? 63126/127 SBB RAm Arbalete 63118/119 SBB RAm Bavaria LSM/RT* 11101*/21101 SBB RAm Edelweiss (21101 was not officially released by RailTop but came from LSM in RT packaging) 14001/14501 NS DE Etoile Du Nord 14002/14502 NS DE Oiseau Bleu Regards Mike C
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Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 3,443
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Should add that for the TEE Ram dieseltrain the motorunits were designed by the Dutch NS,whereas the passenger coaches were designed by the Swiss SBB,which explains the distinctive light-steel Swiss appearance of these coaches.
About the model: during the early eighties things were not going well for Maerklin. I have a catalogue for the year 1981/1982 which holds a scaled down productrange,including a TEE Ram without interior(!),making it look very basic.
Paul. |
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare). |
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,463 Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: mike c  63123 NS DE ? Roco also made an AC version 69123 with ESU Loksound decoder (DE 1002). Trix also made models of this train: 22131 (SBB with sound) and 22132 (NS without sound). A four-unit Trix train has a length of 1130 mm. A four-unit Roco train has a length of 1117 mm. A four-unit Märklin train has a length of 935 mm. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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