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First TEE ( Trans Euro Express ) Coaches / Cars ?
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Offline 20-VOLT-AC  
#1 Posted : 06 April 2012 21:20:36(UTC)
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20-VOLT-AC

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 250
Location: united kingdom
Hello Guys.

When did Marklin make the first models of the famous "TEE" Trans Europe Express coaches and what were the model numbers please ?

Were they metal construction or plastic bodied ?

Regards Neil.

20-VOLT-AC attached the following image(s):
TEE.jpg
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 06 April 2012 21:49:55(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,443
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Neil,

They made #4055 through #4059 back in 1966 - all 24 cm tin-plate DB TEE coaches.

The Swiss TEE RAm 3070/4070 is listed with 1965.

TEE service started 1957, so there may be older coaches by Märklin.

BTW: the name is Trans Europ Express.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline 20-VOLT-AC  
#3 Posted : 06 April 2012 21:54:17(UTC)
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20-VOLT-AC

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 250
Location: united kingdom
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Neil,

They made #4055 through #4059 back in 1966 - all 24 cm tin-plate coaches.

TEE service started 1957, so there may be older coaches by Märklin.

BTW: the name is Trans Europ Express.


Hi Tom.
Thanks so much for your knowledge on the TEE question.
Regards Neil. BigGrin

1950's Marklin Fan .
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 06 April 2012 21:56:49(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Location: DE-NW
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline 20-VOLT-AC  
#5 Posted : 06 April 2012 21:57:11(UTC)
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20-VOLT-AC

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 250
Location: united kingdom
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Neil,

They made #4055 through #4059 back in 1966 - all 24 cm tin-plate DB TEE coaches.

The Swiss TEE RAm 3070/4070 is listed with 1965.

TEE service started 1957, so there may be older coaches by Märklin.

BTW: the name is Trans Europ Express.


Which Marklin coach would be used as a LUGGAGE coach in the TEE coach set when making up a train please ?

Thanks Neil.

1950's Marklin Fan .
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Offline 20-VOLT-AC  
#6 Posted : 06 April 2012 22:01:42(UTC)
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20-VOLT-AC

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 250
Location: united kingdom
Which Marklin "DB" locomotive would pull these TEE coaches please ?

Regards Neil.

1950's Marklin Fan .
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 06 April 2012 22:03:07(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 20-VOLT-AC Go to Quoted Post
Which Marklin coach would be used as a LUGGAGE coach in the TEE coach set when making up a train please?
None.
AFAIK there were no luggage cars in TEE, InterCity, InterRegio, or era III Rheingold trains.

It seems there never were TEE coloured luggage cars. IC trains had a single compartment reserved for IC Kurier for urgent parcels, but baggage was carried by other trains.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 06 April 2012 22:08:28(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: 20-VOLT-AC Go to Quoted Post
Which Marklin "DB" locomotive would pull these TEE coaches please?
Any electric loco in TEE livery (BR E 03, BR 103, BR E 10.12, BR 112), a BR V 200, BR 210, or a blue BR 110 will also do. These are the typical locomotives, but list is probably incomplete.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Markus Schild  
#9 Posted : 06 April 2012 22:11:05(UTC)
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Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
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Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Neil,

The luggage-compartment of the early RHEINGOLD and RHEINPFEIL- trains was in the "basement" of the dome-cars behind the folding doors. So this car was originally named AD4üm - 62 ("A"= 1st Class "D"= Luggage).
Märklin sold the E 03/103 (3053, 3054 and various other numbers) for their TEE - coaches.


Regards

Markus
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Offline jvuye  
#10 Posted : 07 April 2012 08:50:39(UTC)
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jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,883
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi Neil,

The luggage-compartment of the early RHEINGOLD and RHEINPFEIL- trains was in the "basement" of the dome-cars behind the folding doors. So this car was originally named AD4üm - 62 ("A"= 1st Class "D"= Luggage).
Märklin sold the E 03/103 (3053, 3054 and various other numbers) for their TEE - coaches.


Regards

Markus


Correct! Thanks Markus: we knew such a detail would not have escaped your sagacity!ThumpUp

I'll just add also the 4058/4088 ARD4üm Bar cars (the ones marked "TRANS EUROP EXRESS") which contained a small luggage compartment, which was also used as a "service" compartment.

Cheers

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline hennabm  
#11 Posted : 07 April 2012 10:15:41(UTC)
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hennabm

Scotland   
Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC)
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Location: Edinburgh,
Hi Neil

24cm tin plates consisted of the following; 4085, 4086, 4087, 4088, 4089, 4090

The 4086 bar car seems the rarest, certainly when I went looking for one to make up the full set.

I use a BR103 for both my TEE consists.

Mike
1957 - 1985 era
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Offline 20-VOLT-AC  
#12 Posted : 07 April 2012 10:44:57(UTC)
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20-VOLT-AC

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
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Location: united kingdom
Originally Posted by: hennabm Go to Quoted Post
Hi Neil

24cm tin plates consisted of the following; 4085, 4086, 4087, 4088, 4089, 4090

The 4086 bar car seems the rarest, certainly when I went looking for one to make up the full set.

I use a BR103 for both my TEE consists.

Mike


Hello Mike.
Thanks for the numbers, i just looked them up in my KOLL's guide and they are all photographed in there !

What colour is your BR103 please and the Marklin catalogue number please ?

Thanks Neil.
1950's Marklin Fan .
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Offline mike c  
#13 Posted : 07 April 2012 11:27:13(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,226
Location: Montreal, QC
If I remember, the original model numbers were 4055-4059. Similar models were later reissued under 4085-4090. The 4086 was a Apumh Open Seating coach and the 4088 was the ARDumh Bar coach.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline NS1200  
#14 Posted : 07 April 2012 11:39:30(UTC)
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NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
For good orders sake,note the TEE Ram dieseltrain was a shared project between the Dutch NS and the Swiss SBB.
In fact,it was the former CEO of NS who invented the TEE concept,back in 1957 or so.
The design of the TEE Ram was a Dutch design.
The dieselengines in the motorunit were Dutch built Stork-Werkspoor engines.
A total of 5 trains were built,2 trains operated by NS,the other 3 trains operated by SBB.
just to get the facts straight.
I have the NS version of Maerklin in my collection.

Cheers,
Paul.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline hennabm  
#15 Posted : 07 April 2012 11:44:06(UTC)
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hennabm

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Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,073
Location: Edinburgh,
Hi Neil

my BR103s are both 3054. and both in TEE colours

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

One I bought in the 80s from a guy in the south of England and the other more recently via ebay.de

I also have my eye on a BR114, number 3033 in TEE coloursBigGrin

Mike
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital?
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Offline hennabm  
#16 Posted : 07 April 2012 11:46:04(UTC)
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hennabm

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Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,073
Location: Edinburgh,
Hi Mike

IIRC the early series of 4055 etc differed little from the later 4085 etc, as far as I can see.

The only major difference is that the early series were without interiors, whereas the 4085 etc came with interiors already fitted.

Mike
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital?
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Offline hennabm  
#17 Posted : 07 April 2012 11:47:41(UTC)
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hennabm

Scotland   
Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC)
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Location: Edinburgh,
Hi Paul

thank you for the details on the TEEThumpUp

Mike
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital?
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Offline 20-VOLT-AC  
#18 Posted : 07 April 2012 12:30:23(UTC)
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20-VOLT-AC

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 250
Location: united kingdom
Originally Posted by: hennabm Go to Quoted Post
Hi Mike

IIRC the early series of 4055 etc differed little from the later 4085 etc, as far as I can see.

The only major difference is that the early series were without interiors, whereas the 4085 etc came with interiors already fitted.

Mike


Hi Mike.
Did the later version TEE coaches have interior lighting fitted as standard ? ( 4085 etc )

Neil.
1950's Marklin Fan .
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Offline RayF  
#19 Posted : 07 April 2012 14:37:34(UTC)
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RayF

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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
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Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Was the Br120.0, in TEE colours, ever actually used in TEE service?

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Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline mike c  
#20 Posted : 07 April 2012 17:35:56(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,226
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
For good orders sake,note the TEE Ram dieseltrain was a shared project between the Dutch NS and the Swiss SBB.
In fact,it was the former CEO of NS who invented the TEE concept,back in 1957 or so.
The design of the TEE Ram was a Dutch design.
The dieselengines in the motorunit were Dutch built Stork-Werkspoor engines.
A total of 5 trains were built,2 trains operated by NS,the other 3 trains operated by SBB.
just to get the facts straight.
I have the NS version of Maerklin in my collection.

Cheers,
Paul.


Hi Paul,

Slight correction. Of the 5 RAm/DE Diesel TEE Trainsets, 3 belonged to NS (DE 1001-1002-1003) and 2 belonged to SBB (RAm 501-502). The design of the RAm was a joint project between Swiss and Dutch companies. The power unit was designed by Werkspoor. The middle carriages and pilot coach were designed by SWS and SIG. Electronics for the train was designed by BBC.
One of the two SBB trainsets was destroyed in the accident in Aitrang in 1971. The remaining 3 NS and 1 SBB trainsets continued to operate on the Edelweiss route until 1974. They were sold to a Canadian company and shipped to Canada in 1976. The last remaining segments of the trainsets were shipped back to Europe roughly a decade ago. A Swiss project to restore the train failed and the coaches are now in Holland waiting for a Dutch group to have a go at restoring the trainset.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline hennabm  
#21 Posted : 07 April 2012 17:36:59(UTC)
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hennabm

Scotland   
Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,073
Location: Edinburgh,
Hi Neil

I've had a look at the 1979 brochure (as an example) and it shows the lighting as an optional extra for the 4085> series

Mike
1957 - 1985 era
What's digital?
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Offline mike c  
#22 Posted : 07 April 2012 17:37:54(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,226
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: 20-VOLT-AC Go to Quoted Post
Hi Mike.
Did the later version TEE coaches have interior lighting fitted as standard ? ( 4085 etc )

Neil.


I know that the 4089 (the Avmz with taillights) at one point came with factory installed lighting. I think that the remaining coaches required customer installation of slider and lights.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline hennabm  
#23 Posted : 07 April 2012 17:43:16(UTC)
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hennabm

Scotland   
Joined: 22/09/2009(UTC)
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Hi Ray

good point on the BR120. I have a 1980 version so I too would like to know if it was ever used for TEE dutiesConfused
1957 - 1985 era
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Offline H0  
#24 Posted : 07 April 2012 21:21:57(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
I have the NS version of Maerklin in my collection.
Märklin made the RAm 502 in 1965 and the NS DE 1001 in 1995.
Since this thread is about the first TEE coaches, I only mentioned the 1965 model and not the 1995 model.
It surely was a co-operation in 1:1 - but it took Märklin a long time to release the Dutch version.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline H0  
#25 Posted : 07 April 2012 21:28:15(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Was the Br120.0, in TEE colours, ever actually used in TEE service?
I dunno.
BR 120.0 came in 1979. In 1979, most TEEs were replaced by InterCity trains.
So I presume the trains looked like TEEs (with locos and coaches in TEE livery), but were not called TEEs.
Don't forget the 2nd class coaches (blue/beige) for an IC '79.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline hqstu  
#26 Posted : 07 April 2012 23:17:53(UTC)
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hqstu

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/04/2002(UTC)
Posts: 429
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Would anyone be able to complete the list of Marklin SBB/NS RAm model numbers, whether they were SBB or NS and what the model differences are?

I'll have a go by starting what I think I know:

3070/4070 (first model - prone to coach warping, interior lighting?) SBB/NS?
3071/4071 (Second model - no interior lighting)
3150 (Northlander 4 part model - based on 3071? 5000 units, collectable it appears)
3071/4071 (Darker red version - mid 80's?)
3471 (Mid 90's 4 part DELTA - any details? NS?)
37500? (Northlander with F7? engine)
39700 (Early 2000's C Sine - interior details, lighting - I had one of these, did not like M Track...)

Roco Models? I see they have a few for AC, with sound, and a Northlander...
Cheers

Stuart
New Zealand
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Offline mike c  
#27 Posted : 08 April 2012 00:18:27(UTC)
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mike c

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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
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Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
I have the NS version of Maerklin in my collection.
Märklin made the RAm 502 in 1965 and the NS DE 1001 in 1995.
Since this thread is about the first TEE coaches, I only mentioned the 1965 model and not the 1995 model.
It surely was a co-operation in 1:1 - but it took Märklin a long time to release the Dutch version.


The first model of the TEE Diesel trainset (3070) was the SBB RAm
The second version (3071) was neither labelled for the RAm nor for the DE series, so Swiss modellers could pretend it was the RAm and Dutch modellers could pretend that it was one of the DE trainsets. I think that the final production of this model may have included lettering for SBB in the late 1980s.
The 3471 Delta Set was indicated as SBB on the box, but the trainset itself is marked as one of the NS DE transits
The final 39700 Sinus model was labelled SBB RAm

RAm/DE TEE Models

3070 First model - 3 Pronged cables connecting cars, silver frames on windows, labelled as SBB RAm
3071 Second model - 2 Pronged cables connecting cars, transparent frames on windows, minimal lettering (SBB or NS?)
3471 Delta model - Special cable connectors, interior details and lights, labelled as NS DE
39700 Sinus model - Special cable connectors, interior details and lights, labelled as SBB RAm
As far as I know, all models were labelled as TEE Edelweiss

Roco

63120 SBB RAm Edelweiss (Set with track)
63121/69121 SBB RAm Edelweiss
63123 NS DE ?
63126/127 SBB RAm Arbalete
63118/119 SBB RAm Bavaria

LSM/RT*
11101*/21101 SBB RAm Edelweiss (21101 was not officially released by RailTop but came from LSM in RT packaging)
14001/14501 NS DE Etoile Du Nord
14002/14502 NS DE Oiseau Bleu

Regards

Mike C
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Offline NS1200  
#28 Posted : 08 April 2012 08:57:32(UTC)
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NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Should add that for the TEE Ram dieseltrain the motorunits were designed by the Dutch NS,whereas the passenger coaches were designed by the Swiss SBB,which explains the distinctive light-steel Swiss appearance of these coaches.

About the model: during the early eighties things were not going well for Maerklin.
I have a catalogue for the year 1981/1982 which holds a scaled down productrange,including a TEE Ram without interior(!),making it look very basic.

Paul.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline H0  
#29 Posted : 08 April 2012 09:25:22(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
63123 NS DE ?
Roco also made an AC version 69123 with ESU Loksound decoder (DE 1002).

Trix also made models of this train: 22131 (SBB with sound) and 22132 (NS without sound).

A four-unit Trix train has a length of 1130 mm.
A four-unit Roco train has a length of 1117 mm.
A four-unit Märklin train has a length of 935 mm.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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