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Offline davevo  
#1 Posted : 19 December 2011 20:55:25(UTC)
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davevo


Joined: 29/10/2011(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: South Africa
I was wondering, did Marklin ever make a model of the big Garratt locomotives like the monsters we had here in South Africa back in the 1950s. The 4-8-2 + 2-8-4 for example, or would it have been unable to corner on HO rails?

Here's a link to what I'm talking about

http://en.wikipedia.org/..._Class_GEA_4-8-2%2B2-8-4
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Offline ozzman  
#2 Posted : 19 December 2011 21:18:08(UTC)
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ozzman

Australia   
Joined: 23/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,828
Location: Sydney, Australia
Hi David and welcome to this forum. "I don't think so" is my answer to your question - a very similar topic was on here a couple of years ago. We had very similar beasties here in NSW, and one has been preserved (although it's not actually running).
Gary
Z Scale
"Never let the prototype get in the way of a good layout"
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Offline nevw  
#3 Posted : 20 December 2011 00:05:28(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Eureka Trains here in OZ has made a HO Model of a Garret. 2 rail but it would be easy to convert to 3 rail. not sure of the minimum radius of curves though.
N
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline ozzman  
#4 Posted : 20 December 2011 02:30:55(UTC)
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ozzman

Australia   
Joined: 23/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,828
Location: Sydney, Australia
Nev, being an articulated loco it should be able to get around reasonably tight radius curves - maybe not the tightest though. From memory Garrat locos were also used in NZ and Tasmania.
Gary
Z Scale
"Never let the prototype get in the way of a good layout"
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Offline nevw  
#5 Posted : 20 December 2011 03:15:51(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Originally Posted by: ozzman Go to Quoted Post
Nev, being an articulated loco it should be able to get around reasonably tight radius curves - maybe not the tightest though. From memory Garrat locos were also used in NZ and Tasmania.

Also Queensland and in Geelong Victoria the Cement works had 2 or more Garrets.
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline Tom Jessop  
#6 Posted : 20 December 2011 05:21:23(UTC)
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Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
Well after not seeing 2 post from me on this subject it seems that the Quick Reply does not work.

John from Perth WA [river6109 on here ] was considering converting a Eureka 2 rail model to 3 rail use, I'm not sure how far he had got with it or was still waiting on arrival from the company, I know if it is a succusful make over I 'll be onthe first plane fromSudney to perth to arrange with him to do a conversion of my future Garratt model.

Tom in Oz [Newcastle]
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Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 20 December 2011 05:40:51(UTC)
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river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Tom Jessop Go to Quoted Post
Well after not seeing 2 post from me on this subject it seems that the Quick Reply does not work.

John from Perth WA [river6109 on here ] was considering converting a Eureka 2 rail model to 3 rail use, I'm not sure how far he had got with it or was still waiting on arrival from the company, I know if it is a succusful make over I 'll be onthe first plane fromSudney to perth to arrange with him to do a conversion of my future Garratt model.

Tom in Oz [Newcastle]


Tom,

I had to wait for such a long time and there had been continous delays ( most probably nothing to do with Eureka models) I've cancelled the loco so I never had the chance converting it.

My original understanding was, that the loco was made from brass but I was corrected, apparently there are plastic parts included.

Some one else is producing it as well can't remember the name of the company, slightly cheaper but again I don't know the full story or the material it is made of.

Since than I have not followed up the supply of these Garratt's

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Tom Jessop  
#8 Posted : 20 December 2011 07:00:50(UTC)
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Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
Thanks John , oh well it was just a dream for me at the moment ,one ofthose things on the great wish list that have few come to fruition.

Il just put up with my 4 Crocs & 2 Mallets & 6 BR44/50 variations for some artriculated fun.
M are u listening ,there are some who would like a Garrett in their xmas presy bag some time in the future.

Merry Xmas & a happy & prosperous New Year to all on this wonderfull list spread worldwide


Tom in OZ.BigGrin BigGrin Laugh BigGrin Laugh
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Offline kariosls37  
#9 Posted : 20 December 2011 10:52:13(UTC)
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kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,067
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
The problem with Garratts is most of them run on narrow gauge track, and Marklin would have to move up a scale (To S for 3'6" gauge track) to allow it to run on 16.5mm track. Curves would not be much of a problem as they are built in a very simular way as the Swiss crocs; A chassis with running gear on either end with a cradle slung between them, in the Garratt's case holding a boiler, in the croc's case electrical gear and cabs.

Gary is right, we did have Garretts in NZ, in the form of three six cylinder 4-6-2+2-6-4 beasts that were only really good at pulling drawgear out of wagons. However, a few people have bought and imported a few Zimbabwean Garretts which one day might run here as a substitute for the G class that were written off in the thirties.

Cheers,

Rick
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Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 20 December 2011 11:20:50(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Have a look at the Garrett models made by DJH. Some of them are for HO gauge.

http://www.djhmodelloco....ountry=Rest%20of%20World

UserPostedImage
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline rmsailor  
#11 Posted : 20 December 2011 12:48:31(UTC)
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rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 570
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
Hi,

the problem with a garratt is that the only places in Europe that main-line examples ran were the UK and Spain, both fairly peripheral markets for Marklin.
An OO model of a UK garratt has been commissioned by Hattons of Liverpool for delivery late next year. It is to be a model of the LMS 2-6-6-2 machines and will of course be 12 volt DC and two rail. It is not perhaps the most attractive looking of the type.

Bob M.
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Offline davevo  
#12 Posted : 20 December 2011 16:50:17(UTC)
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davevo


Joined: 29/10/2011(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: South Africa
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Have a look at the Garrett models made by DJH. Some of them are for HO gauge.

http://www.djhmodelloco....ountry=Rest%20of%20World

UserPostedImage


I may be saving up for a LLLOOOOONNNNNNGGGG time for that. That's the equivalent of two months salary for me Blushing
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Offline aos  
#13 Posted : 20 December 2011 18:15:23(UTC)
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aos

United Kingdom   
Joined: 03/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 526
Location: Salisbury
David, I worked for Anglo American in the IT Department of the Gold Mines in Welkom in the Orange Free State from 1984 - 1986. I vividly remember some of the old steamers still being used back then, although I cannot remember what class they were.

I also worked for Anglo American Copper Mines in Kitwe, on the Zambian Copperbelt between 1973 - 1975 when Ian Smith had closed the border between (as it was then) Southern Rhodesia and Zambia. I remember the steam locos passing over the bridge at Victoria Falls.

Happy memories ;-) Alan
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Offline Shintaro  
#14 Posted : 06 January 2012 07:06:55(UTC)
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Shintaro

Australia   
Joined: 23/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 240
Location: Campbelltown
Powerline also produce the "Garrat" here in Oz, but Eureka is cheaper. And powerline only do pre-orderfor this model.
Cheers.
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Offline rmsailor  
#15 Posted : 28 January 2012 10:26:50(UTC)
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rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 570
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
I have just been looking at the web-site of the Spanish firm Mabar and under models in preparation is a double 2-8-2 Garrat. It should be a large and impressive model when it appears.

Bob M.
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Offline Markus Schild  
#16 Posted : 28 January 2012 11:02:12(UTC)
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Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi,

the famous German small-series manufacturer SCHNABEL showed these Garratts in his 1970s catalogue. The models are based on Märklin parts. I have never seen one in reality.

UserPostedImage

Regards

Markus
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Offline steventrain  
#17 Posted : 28 January 2012 11:51:31(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,692
Location: United Kingdom
DJH Loco Kit make Garratt.

http://www.djhmodelloco....ountry=Rest%20of%20World

I think it is 2-rails ready to run price very expensive.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline Jay  
#18 Posted : 28 January 2012 12:13:16(UTC)
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Jay

South Africa   
Joined: 01/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Hi Marcus
Can you please make enquiries if the company still exists and if they still manufacture these giants
Regards
Jay
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Offline Markus Schild  
#19 Posted : 28 January 2012 12:22:05(UTC)
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Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: Jay Go to Quoted Post
Hi Marcus
Can you please make enquiries if the company still exists and if they still manufacture these giants
Regards
Jay


Hi Jay,

No, the company does not exist any more. It was closed in the 1980s, the models shown are from the 1950s or 1960s. Their products were very expensive. Models for 25% of the price of a new Volkswagen weren't rare.

Regards

Markus
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Offline steventrain  
#20 Posted : 28 January 2012 12:22:28(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,692
Location: United Kingdom
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

the famous German small-series manufacturer SCHNABEL showed these Garratts in his 1970s catalogue. The models are based on Märklin parts. I have never seen one in reality.

Regards

Markus



The cab similer to BR23.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline rmsailor  
#21 Posted : 28 January 2012 13:40:27(UTC)
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rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 570
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
Here is some further information on the Mabar Garratt. It is to be a model of the 282.0421-30 series, which were the last Spanish Garratts to be built in 1961 by Babcock and Wilcox. They were basically similar to the 1931 batch built for the Central of Aragon Railway for heavy freight service.

A model of the large 4-6-2 + 2-6-4 Garrats from the same line, might have been nice as they were employed in express passenger service. The only Garratts in Europe to do so.

The C of A also employed a number of Mallet locomotives and elsewhere in Spain were to be found du Bousquet and Kitson-Meyer articulates, all of which would make interesting models.

Details of the Garrats and Mallets can be found in the books by Durrant and Marshall.

There is no indication on the Mabar web-site of delivery date or price. However, the do AC versions of there stock.

Bob M.
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Offline rmsailor  
#22 Posted : 28 January 2012 13:47:15(UTC)
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rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 570
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
I seem to have a bit of a problem putting all the "ts" into the spelling of Garratt. The version with "tt" is of course the correct one.

Bob M.
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Jay
Offline husson73  
#23 Posted : 29 January 2012 11:11:44(UTC)
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husson73


Joined: 20/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Paris - France
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

the famous German small-series manufacturer SCHNABEL showed these Garratts in his 1970s catalogue. The models are based on Märklin parts. I have never seen one in reality.

UserPostedImage

Regards

Markus

Schnabel didn't build the models but made transformation from rare and expensive 2 rails models to 3 rails such as Fulgurex or Metropolitan models.
BTW Fulgurex sold a Beyer-Garatt on HO on the later 70s.
So the model of the Beyer on this brochure was perhaps the fulgurex one.
3 rails HO OO O I, DC and AC, analogic and digital.
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Offline Markus Schild  
#24 Posted : 29 January 2012 11:42:21(UTC)
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Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Husson,

Schnabel did these models themselves without any doubt. They started long before METROPOLITAN even existed, the SAR-Garratt is from 1952.
It is right, that they even converted hand-crafted models of other marks or built kits to order. But they also scratch-built new models.

Regards

Markus

Edit: fulgurex was founded in 1947. Schnabel started 1948.
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Offline husson73  
#25 Posted : 01 February 2012 11:54:50(UTC)
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husson73


Joined: 20/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Paris - France
Markus,
thank you for the informations.
discovered Schnabel on german e bay and seen the schnabel on sales were mostly Fulgurex Metrop on 3 rails.
Don't know they build their own loks, have you a link?
regards
3 rails HO OO O I, DC and AC, analogic and digital.
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Offline Markus Schild  
#26 Posted : 01 February 2012 13:32:18(UTC)
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Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: husson73 Go to Quoted Post

discovered Schnabel on german e bay and seen the schnabel on sales were mostly Fulgurex Metrop on 3 rails.


Hi Husson,

Only a small part of the locos which are sold as SCHNABEL on Ebay Germany were really made by them. SCHNABEL is still a great name here, and their models are sometimes hard to identify. So it is used very often wrongly.

Regards

Markus
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Offline 610  
#27 Posted : 03 February 2012 12:46:58(UTC)
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610


Joined: 02/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 30
Wow, very interesting topic here!
Having an H0 scale Garratt is actually one of my old dreams!
I wonder why they are so unpopular in H0 scale, since no other manufacturer beside DHJ, Schnabel, Mabar and Eureka Models produce(d) them. I mean some meter gauge Garratts were so big that it they almost looked like standard gauge locos, so I wouldn´t mind if a meter gauge Garrattt would be produced in H0 scale although it wouldn´t be 100% correct of course.
By the way:
By the way: What are your favorite Garratt models?
From South Africa, Zimbabwe, Sambia, Botswana,Angola, Mosambique, Tansania, Kenia, Uganda, Algeria, Spain, UK, India, Australia, New Zealand, Bolivia, Chile, Argentina or Brazil?
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Offline Markus Schild  
#28 Posted : 03 February 2012 13:15:05(UTC)
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Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi,

So far the KITMASTER-kit is not mentioned:

http://www.kitmaster.org.uk/BeyerG.htm

But 00-scale and also not cheap today.

Regards

Markus
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Offline NZMarklinist  
#29 Posted : 03 February 2012 15:47:30(UTC)
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NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: husson73 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

the famous German small-series manufacturer SCHNABEL showed these Garratts in his 1970s catalogue. The models are based on Märklin parts. I have never seen one in reality.

.



I have it on good authority that a certain list member is intending to turn two wrecked Marklin '01's into a Garrett ThumpUp
It'll be a one off unless somebody has a few more doner '01's and lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$ Wink
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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Offline 610  
#30 Posted : 03 February 2012 19:53:11(UTC)
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610


Joined: 02/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 30
Here is a photo of a privately made Garratt by a Märklin-fan:
http://h8.abload.de/img/rimg08669t5b.jpg
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Offline GlennM  
#31 Posted : 04 February 2012 21:06:42(UTC)
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GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,971
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Thought you might like to see a photo of the real thing. This is a Rhodesian Railways Garrett and the I took the photograph circa 1975 at a small rail halt whilst they re-watered whilst on route from Bulawayo to Mafeking. I thing of real beauty


UserPostedImage


BR

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
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Offline Angus  
#32 Posted : 06 February 2012 15:23:36(UTC)
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Angus

South Africa   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: Johannesburg
Not Marklin but here are some South Africa Railways items in HO

http://www.precisionminiatures.co.za/
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Offline nevw  
#33 Posted : 06 February 2012 22:03:25(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
about 10 days ago I was talking to the Eureka Rep at a Model train Show. There is "Some-one" (he forgot the name) in Sydney who is doing conversions of the garret to 3 rail, successfully also from all reports that they have received.
Nev
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#34 Posted : 07 February 2012 01:07:04(UTC)
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kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,764
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: rmsailor Go to Quoted Post
Here is some further information on the Mabar Garratt. It is to be a model of the 282.0421-30 series, which were the last Spanish Garratts to be built in 1961 by Babcock and Wilcox. ....

Details of the Garrats and Mallets can be found in the books by Durrant and Marshall.

There is no indication on the Mabar web-site of delivery date or price. However, the do AC versions of there stock.

Bob M.



Hi all,

I really find this topic interesting, with lots of great info about the real Garratts, and possible models.

Bob's post does of course show up the problem of gauge, which I believe in Spain is not standard. This presents a problem for the model-maker, regards what scale to use.

At 1:87 HO, and given Marklins indulgent provision of track and accessories to match the models, the only sensible option is to build models of standard gauge.

This limits the possible offerings to the LMS and LNER in the UK, New South Wales in Australia, Algeria and perhaps some others.

The Algerian unit possibly offers the best market, because it aligns with their existing French customers. The locomotive was the AT and BT class built for the PLM in the 1930s as the PLM.Algeria/231-132. There were 16 of them. The builder was Société Franco-Belge, Raismes, France.

Another problem for Marklin is access to records for creating their model, I am not sure that France would be that easy for them. With the Big Boy for example, they had access to builders plans and the UP Historical information. Unfortunately, no German builders (Henschel, Maffei etc, to which Marklin would have smooth access) ever built a standard gauge Garratt for anyone, except for one solitary unit for a tramway in Holland. (They did build many narrow gauge units).

For a definitive overview of who built what Garratts, and for what railway, see this website. http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/source.html

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#35 Posted : 07 February 2012 01:12:11(UTC)
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kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,764
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: 610 Go to Quoted Post
Wow, very interesting topic here!
Having an H0 scale Garratt is actually one of my old dreams!
I wonder why they are so unpopular in H0 scale, since no other manufacturer beside DHJ, Schnabel, Mabar and Eureka Models produce(d) them. I mean some meter gauge Garratts were so big that it they almost looked like standard gauge locos, so I wouldn´t mind if a meter gauge Garrattt would be produced in H0 scale although it wouldn´t be 100% correct of course.
By the way:
By the way: What are your favorite Garratt models?
From South Africa, Zimbabwe, Sambia, Botswana,Angola, Mosambique, Tansania, Kenia, Uganda, Algeria, Spain, UK, India, Australia, New Zealand, Bolivia, Chile, Argentina or Brazil?


Hi,

The red Queensland 3'6" gauge Garratts looked spectacular, the NSW AD60 were an impressive bulk, exuding power. I saw both in the working days of steam.

regards
Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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