Joined: 19/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: Herefordshire,England
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With help and advice from contributors here my railway is starting to come to life again after decades in boxes. One problem that has emerged is with three pairs of M-track turnouts. Of the six, only one operates. The lanterns on the other five light up but the solenoids don't operate. All seem free to move by hand. I wonder if anyone can suggest ways to renovate the five reluctant ones?
Chris
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 Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 841 Location: Lidingö, Sweden
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Originally Posted by: ChrisP  With help and advice from contributors here my railway is starting to come to life again after decades in boxes. One problem that has emerged is with three pairs of M-track turnouts. Of the six, only one operates. The lanterns on the other five light up but the solenoids don't operate. All seem free to move by hand. I wonder if anyone can suggest ways to renovate the five reluctant ones?
Chris First, have you looked at the working and not working one from underneath (remove the plate that covers the mechanism first)? As far as I recall it, there is a spring that is part of the transmission of the action of the solenoid to the turnout itself and if that is missing, it will of course not work. You can also check if there is rust preventing it from moving. If the turnouts pass this test, then: Second, connect ideally an Amps-meter in series with the solenoid or if you don't have an Amps-meter, a lamp (e.g. one for lighting H0-buildings). In this way you can see if there is a current passing through the solenoid or not. A simple drawing:  If this test fails, then you have found the solenoid faulty and then there are a few options: 1) Check the soldering of the yellow and blue wires to the solenoid 2) Dismantle the solenoid and check the thin copper coloured wire and finally if OK re-wind the coils of the solenoid. 3) Get a new spare part (or turnout)
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 Joined: 19/03/2004(UTC) Posts: 976 Location: Gorizia, Italy
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Hi Chris,
In addition to Western Pacific's post, do you hear any sound coming from the turnout mechanism?
If you hear the typical mechanical sound, but the turnout does not change position, try to move the moving rails by hand and if they maintain the new position, they could be magnetized or a drop of oil is needed in the hinge.
I found for some turnouts bought on eBay (new and never used), the drop of oil solved the problem.
Cheers
Renato
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Joined: 19/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: Herefordshire,England
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Thank you both for these ideas. I've compared a working with a non-working unit and can find no visible difference. The spring is in place on both and both operate freely when the lantern casing is turned by hand. There is a circuit through both of the solenoids (they seem to be in two parts with a blue wire connected to each end and yellow wires soldered together at a centre terminal). The rails move freely as do all the visible working parts. There is no sound coming from them but one of the non-working ones started to smoke! That, I think, must be a rusted solenoid and beyond repair.
Any other thoughts much appreciated.
Regards, and thanks
Chris
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Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 841 Location: Lidingö, Sweden
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Smoke coming from one of them is not a good sign.
A question: When testing are you using a Control Box, which has contacts that connect the blue wire to the brown return cable only when pressed?
If you don't use this type of "push button" switch that only give contact momentarily, then there is a risk that you burn the solenoid.
In case you use an old Control Box, check that the plastic hasn't deteriorated and causing the buttons to stick and the switches to remain giving contact. I have had this problem with an old blue Control Box.
Another aspect could be, if you connect both blue wires momentarily to the brown wire then the two parts of the solenoid will counter act each other.
(As you point out the solenoid is actually two solenoids mechanically mounted on the same plastic bobbin, thus the yellow wire going to the middle. By pressing one of buttons of a Control Box current will go only in one part of the solenoid assembly, pulling the iron core and thus throw the turnout and consequently the other button would let current through the other half of the solenoid assembly and throw the turnout the other way).
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 Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 276 Location: Houston, Texas
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Hello Chris,
My new layout haS 30 M track turnouts including many from E bay. I found that many would not work everytime when operated by decoders. ( I install first and test later ) Some including both double slip decoderes would not work at all. I changed to push button control using Viessmann 5547 panels and all work every time. It's also much less expensive.
good luck,
Tex
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Joined: 19/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: Herefordshire,England
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Thank you Tex. I had much the same thought overnight and tried the turnouts with a control box instead of through a decoder. Some progress. Two of them buzzed encouragingly but didn't quite manage to switch. On testing the circuits as suggested above by WP I had already found that one had no circuit through the solenoid. So that one, as with the one that smokes, are probably consigned to become spare part sources. One of the others is originally from a digital starter set so I don't hold out much hope for that one either. Which leaves me with two which are trying to work but aren't quite making it.I suppose I should persist and hope that they will switch given enough persuasion.
Regards
Chris
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 Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,919 Location: Auckland,
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Hi Chris,
I notice that you refer to a circuit board underneath, and one of them being from a digital starter set. They haven't had decoders installed in them have they? Marklin used to make a decoder for installation on the underside of M track points. If they have then they need to be wired for digital.
Any chance of a photo of the underside?
Cheers....
Mike.
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Joined: 19/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: Herefordshire,England
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Hello Mike Image attached (I hope!). I think the decoder is the small unit at top right. Viewing the underside this closely I can see that the spring looks suspect but not sure that this would entirely explain the failure to switch. Regards Chris ChrisP attached the following image(s):
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Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 276 Location: Houston, Texas
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Chris,
this is getting to be interesting. Is the photo from a curved turnout ? I had two of them in my origional Marklin 2602 starter set but never opened them. They worked with the digital control unit that came with the starter set on buttons 3 and 4, however they never operated when I upgraded to a 6021 control unit many years ago. The only way to operate them would have been to install a switchboard with the correct address.
Tex
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Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,919 Location: Auckland,
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Hi Chris,
These turnouts cannot be used in analogue operation! they are digital only. If you try to use them on an analogur layout you will destroy the decoder.(possibly what caused the moke on one of them).
The address on them is set by bridging some solder pads on the decoder. If they are all like this, you need to use a marklin digital controller to switch them.
I'm sure someone here on the forum will have a copy of the old marklin digital handbook that they could scan and email to you.
Cheers....
Mike.
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Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 841 Location: Lidingö, Sweden
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Originally Posted by: mvd71 Hi Chris,
These turnouts cannot be used in analogue operation! they are digital only. If you try to use them on an analogur layout you will destroy the decoder.(possibly what caused the moke on one of them).
The address on them is set by bridging some solder pads on the decoder. If they are all like this, you need to use a marklin digital controller to switch them.
I'm sure someone here on the forum will have a copy of the old marklin digital handbook that they could scan and email to you.
Cheers....
Mike. Not knowing what your plans are. Would you operate the turnouts in digital or analogue mode? In case of digital mode, as pointed out earlier, perhaps somebody has the operations manual. In case of analogue mode, then it would be relatively simple to turn them into analogue. Just cut the yellow, green and red wires going from the decoder and extend them with longer yellow and blue wires (connected to the green and red). Solder the joints and put shrink tube on them. You could also put shrink tube around all 3 cables and use the hole above the decoder as "cable duct". Doing this modification of course assumes the solenoid works ok and this could easily be tested before doing any cutting or soldering work by twisting test cables around the soldering points of the solenoid and then use the method I described earlier. (If you leave a short bit of each of the coloured cables soldered to the decoder would simplify restoring the turnout as digital, assuming the decoder is OK). Turning the turnout into analogue this way would of course also make it possible to use external decoders in digital mode. This would in particular apply if the smoke mentioned earlier came from a decoder.
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 1 user liked this useful post by Western Pacific
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Joined: 18/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 119
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Chris
As has been stated ..
The turnouts you have with this circuit board in them have been retrofitted with the 6073 decoder and are digital .. .
Do not power them with conventional analogue transformers as you will most likely blow the decoder ... these require 6021+keyboard, MS or CS to operate and to do this you need to figure out what address the decoder(s) have been set to .. address on the 6073 decoder was set using the solder pads on the circuit board ...
Any that do not have these circuits but have the traditional 2 x blue wires, 1 x yellor wire are still analogue
Cheers
Sprogger
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1 user liked this useful post by sprogger
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Joined: 22/05/2010(UTC) Posts: 190 Location: USA
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Chris, In addition to the excellent advise many have offered you above, let me tell you that I have had very bad luck with old M turnouts (see my postings in "Me and My Layout" page, https://www.marklin-user...lding-my-new-layout.aspx ). My problem was not the operation of the solenoids (they worked perfectly), but the aged spring that moved the old frog legs. No matter what I have tried I could not get 100% reliability from them for my operation. So, I solved the problem by replacing the M turnouts with C. I had to do some "re-engineering" on the C turnouts so they could be connected to M track, but the result was perfect. Should you decide to take this solution, contact me and I'll explain in detail how to make the connections to C-to-M. Regards, Yannis
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1 user liked this useful post by YannisB
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Joined: 19/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: Herefordshire,England
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Thank you Yannis. I'll keep this in mind. I haven't had time to follow all of the advice given above yet but my temporary solution is to abandon much of the M-track on the layout (which is digital) for the time being and further develop the K-track section. I'm looking for a pair of K-track curved turnouts to complete the project and trying to restore the turntable and signals with some success though not 100% yet.
Regards
Chris
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 Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,593 Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by: YannisB but the aged spring that moved the old frog legs. No matter what I have tried I could not get 100% reliability from them for my operation. .. I always replace the springs on all of my m-track turnouts before laying the track.. I think that the part number is 35308 (or it could be 765530).. The other thing is to ensure that the tracks are not twisted - they must always we laid flat on a layout with the nearest approach tracks also laid flat... |
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1 user liked this useful post by xxup
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Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Chris, I don't know whether or not it has been mentioned to take the solenoid apart. Look at the moving arm and as you said it may be rusted up. But this can easily be rectified by cleaning it up. when looking at the photo I can't see any thing bent but this is not to say there isn't. (moving arm) the part I would like to see is where the moving arm and lantern mechanism meet. I don' t know how the decoder operates but it may need an address to be active. In principal, these turnouts are serviceable and should operate when properly fixed. John Edited by user 10 October 2011 04:26:34(UTC)
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1 user liked this useful post by river6109
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