Hi all!

We all (should) know that not all Märklin coaches are made in 1:87 length scale.

I took some pictures to illustrate this.

Here's a picture of five coaches with a prototype length of 26.4 metres (UIC standard length):

Here we have:

• 24 cm class (1:110)
• 1:100 class (26.4 cm)
• 27 cm class (~1:97.8)
• 28.2 cm class (~1:93.6)
• 1:87 (30.3 cm (a Trix model, but announced from Märklin))

Here's a picture of five coaches with a prototype length greater than 26.4 metres:

Here we have:

• 27.5 m dining car, 24 cm class (~1:115)
• 27.5 m dining car, 27 cm class (~1:102)
• 27.5 m dining car, 28.2 cm class (~1:97.5)
• 26.8 m double stock coach, 1:100 class (26.8 cm)
• 27.3 m double stock control car, 1:100 class (27.3 cm)

The wooden bar indicates the prototypical length of the dining car.


Even shorter models came in shortened versions:

The old "Donnerbüchsen" were only 11.5 cm long (scale 1:121) while the new models are 16 cm long (1:87).


Here the side-view of the "Donnerbüchsen":

The old coaches have oversized lettering, so the prototype length is given as "13,9 m" while the new models are marked as "13,92 m" along with more information.


Here's a picture with 4 Am/Aüm coaches:

From top to bottom: Märklin 24 cm class, 27 cm class, 28.2 cm class, Roco 1:87
Please note that the coaches have varying prototypes, two have one-piece doors (with large windows), two have folding doors (with small windows).
Please note that the two short models only have 8 compartments while the long ones and the prototype have 10 compartments.

All coaches are lying with gangway to the camera. After I took the picture, I noticed that the frame details of the 27 cm coach were turned around - so I turned the coach and took another picture:


A closer look at the frame from below:

The frame of the Roco car is very detailed (bottom). The Märklin 27 cm car looks very similar (top), but nothing is printed or coloured. The Märklin 28.2 cm coach is in the middle (no comment).

The rear end of the coaches makes a difference with the last coach in the train. Here's a picture:

Märklin 24 cm coach: red rear lights are painted on, no window pane in the door windows.
Märklin 27 cm coach: painting the red rear lights is left as an exercise to the customer, no window pane in the door windows.
Märklin 28.2 cm coach: red windows for rear lights (can be made operational), window pane in the door windows.
Roco 30.3 cm coach: red windows for rear lights (can be made operational), window pane with coloured frame in the door windows, printed information.

A picture that allows comparison of the model window heights:

This picture also allows comparison of the interior details.
Roco (right or bottom respectively) seems to have the correct shape, details are coloured.
Märklin 28.2 cm class (next): no comment.
Märklin 27 cm class (next): shape seems correct, but details are not coloured.
Märklin 24 class (top): interior does not really match the compartment windows.

And one for width comparison:


Peeping through the windows (Märklin 24 cm class):

Three seats where there should be six, compartment door not showing.

Peeping through the windows (Märklin 27 cm class):

Sorry, picture is not too good (maybe I'll try again). Also see side-by-side picture above

Peeping through the windows (Märklin 28.2 cm class):

No comment.

Peeping through the windows (Roco 1:87):

You can see the coloured ventilation grill on the compartment door.

Märklin has mixed different length scales in several sets.
Maybe I'll take some pictures of such mixed sets to compare how they look side by side.


Update (June 1, 2014):
Märklin advertise their ICE 3 in the catalogue with the words "Scale length for 1:87".
When they sued Piko for plagiarism, they filed at court that both the Märklin ICE 3 and the Piko ICE 3 have a length of 1:88.8, a width of 1:88.57, a distance between pivot points of 1:92.8 and a height of 1:87.
Some details on the trucks are 1:100 with both models.
The product database still shows the "1:87" symbol for the ICE 3. It's too short by about two centimetres - the difference is way too small to be noticed with bare eyes, but length is rather 1:89 than 1:87 (along with various other compromises).

Update (October 20, 2021): Images now using SSL.

Edited by user 20 October 2021 20:57:22(UTC)  | Reason: Information about ICE 3. Updated image links to HTTPS.

Tom,

Great post, very helpful.


r/Thomas

Hi Tom,

Thank you for that post, you can really see/understand the difference with your pictures - I start to worry if those "double decker" cars will fit on Juniors layout when we get them (we ordered a set each)...

^__^
MikeK

Thanks for posting this, Tom. I thought I'd point out that liberties with scale are not just made by model railroad manufacturers: When I visited Disneyland for the first time, I liked the replica of "Main Street America", but since I grew up in a town with a main street just like it, I couldn't figure out why it still looked a little different from the real thing. Only later did I find out that the structures are made at 3:4 scale. But it still looks great, and I don't think too many vistors there are complaining about that fact! Sorry if this is a bit off topic...

Yes, Tom and at this point you are only comparing the lengths.

A comparison of heights and widths MAY reveal that ALL are 1:87, as these measurement criteria do not effect the running ability of models.

regards
Kimball

Tom,

Thanks for the detailed differences in length and other noticeable features.
Another point I like to make comparing Marklin with Roco, sometimes Marklin has produced a dining car but inserted the same interior as a 2nd or 1st class carriage or the seating arrangements between 1st and 2nd class did not alter.

John

I buy Marklin whenever possible unless they are not the correct length. I only run ultra wide radius so I don't have limitations there.

The only shortened Marklin model I have is the 39080 insider VT 08.5 since there was no suitable alternative that I was happy with.
It is 1:93.5 so it is not too bad.

Love the look of the full length 26.4m roco coaches.

Oh well, Henrik, at least they will still be in business. Pretty smart when you think about it.

regards
Kimball

Very interesting article Tom! Thank you!

I have a question: do you have both wide and regular radii switches? It would be interetsing to take pictures of 2 cars in the switches, to compare the intervals between the cars depending on their length.

I know it's a bit of work, you might not have the time to do all this...

Cheers,
Ricky

The coaches in the 26727 set are 1:100 (they'd be 30.3 cm in 1:87).
The so-called "-3yg" and "-4yg" Umbauwagen are made in 1:87 while the older Silberlings are 1:100. Märklin sold these together in train sets.
The 27 cm Rheingold coaches (era II) are 1:87 while the shorter 26.4 cm models actually represent longer prototypes.

Wonderful thread!

Fantastic pictures, detail and write-up.

Those old Marklin Tin-Plate, to me, have that 'real' feel to them.

Regards,
Paul

Minimum radius is 360 mm, minimum radius for reversing curves is 400 mm (that's what the leaflet says, I only tested them on R2/R3 - review to come).

And Nev is right: prototype coaches have different lengths.
The era II Rheingold coaches are about 27 cm long - and they are 1:87. And even shorter coaches can be 1:87. OTOH some coaches will be longer than 303 mm if made in 1:87 (dining cars and modern doublestock coaches).

Thanks for the thread Tom.

Beside radius issues, there is also another point that makes me prefer shorter coaches, miimum 1:93.5 if not 1:100. I want to run on my lay-out closer to prototypical length trains (at least 5 to 6 coaches)an this makes trains ~2m long. This means my stations (I am still planning two of them) become quite long (with entry-exit switches etc. apporx. 3m). So, if the choice is one fewer coach or shorter coaches, I prefer the second option. I am in the process, for example, of aquiring HAG swiss IC 2000 double-stock cars (length 282) and replace my Roco cars (length 303). In this train, you need at least 5-6 coaches as they have quite a variation (there is a baggage end-car, a first class, a second class, a restaurant/buffet car and an end cab-control car).

I agree totally, Mario. My layout is even tighter than that, so I'm very limited to length. I can just manage a 4 coach train of 27cm coaches. 30+ cm coaches restricts me to just 3.

I remember when I was a kid, I felt the 4029 CIWL sleeper was a "smaller scale" in all directions than the rest of the coaches...

Since I have very limited space, I prefer shorter coaches - I rather have 5 1:100 scale length ones than 4 1:87 ones. Steam locos look "better" with shorter coaches in my opinion too... I'm a "playing" guy, not really into the correct scale or detail thing, so I just want it to "look good" from my perspective - For me, wagons are something you have to hook up behind a good looking loco so it looks complete - keeps me happy...

Great comparison, Tom!

Thanks, Tom.

Very interesting information. My longest coaches are 27 cm. They could not any longer on my planned layout. I actually prefer shorter ones. I think it looks better.

Hi!
Being, until not long ago, a Lima collector mostly. I always found the length of their passenger cars acceptable. Saying this while being unaware of "shorter" than real 1:87 length, and always with the belief that they were really prototypical.

This is the Dome Rheingold, taken from a 1980 catalog, where you can see from the length that it most closely is 1:100 than 1:87.

My opinion: I'd value "usability" (for not using the term playability) rather than "authenticity". I do not mind 2 or 3 less cm in length if it still resembles quite well the real thing.

Great article i must say. Some really good stuff to be found here when digging a bit in the archives.

A question that I can't find the answer on, are there any other companies out there that makes the 1:100 scale passenger wagons? I'm one of these weird guys that prefers the shorter wagons.

D.

Different eras...

I've got 2 Roco carriages with a length of !:93, dining or restaurant cars are even longer 310mm (1:87)

The short one appears to be #4000, offered from 1953 through 1980. The #4040, a livery variation, was available until 1991.
The middle one appears to be #4002, offered from 1951 through 1975.
The long one appeared as #4100 in 1981 - and as #4313 is still available.

Different eras, but overlapping. Different target groups.

Hello i have two märklin wagon here the 41368 And the 42769(mitropa speisewagon)how accurate are those in scale?
/Stephan Höglund

Hi Stephan
Those item numbers do not show up in the Märklin database.
Anyway I googled them OK.

These original cars were built in the early 20th Century.
Unless you have an original build diagram/plans from the workshops you don't know the original dimensions.

So one is unlikely to discover if they are made to a particular scale.
In my experience if they look OK and run well - that is important.

Kimball

Nobody's perfect. When they mess up, it's usually big. My first dealer told me that 30 years ago when I asked him why my SBB Be6/6 croc is geared so fast if the top protype speed was 25 or 30 kmh.