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Simple question about combining analogue operation and MS1 digital operation
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Offline Chris6382chris  
#1 Posted : 08 April 2011 04:41:23(UTC)
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Chris6382chris

United States   
Joined: 27/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,218
Location: Middle of the US
I am looking at adding catenary to a portion of my layout and the question I have is this. If I am operating the C track portion of the layout with my MS1 (1.9A)can I wire the catenary for analogue? In other words, I have ten engines right now using my MS1, I am thinking I could buy an electric and run it off of the catenary in analogue sharing the common ground on the c track?

Is this doable or will I end up shorting out my MS1?

Please advise.

Thanks,

Chris
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Offline Ian555  
#2 Posted : 08 April 2011 05:16:25(UTC)
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Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,289
Location: Scotland
Hi Chris,

My own digital and analog sections of the layout are totally seperate from each other,both electrically and mechanically.

Ian.
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 08 April 2011 07:36:34(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,442
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Chris!
Originally Posted by: Chris6382chris Go to Quoted Post
Is this doable or will I end up shorting out my MS1?

This can be done, but a short between catenary and centre rail could fry your MS1.

So turn catenary power off before lifting all-metal coaches of the track ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Johnvr  
#4 Posted : 08 April 2011 20:18:41(UTC)
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Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,293
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Chris, that will work.

Actually, I plan to do it the other way around : Digital/Delta in the Catenary and Analog in the Ground. I suppose it depends on your collection of trains.

See my post where I tested out a flick-switch to switch between Delta in catenary and Analog in ground, and then the other way around.

https://www.marklin-user...arklin-friends-meet.aspx

Regards,
John
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Offline Chris6382chris  
#5 Posted : 16 August 2011 05:33:55(UTC)
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Chris6382chris

United States   
Joined: 27/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,218
Location: Middle of the US
So John, I read your other posts on this topic and I was wondering how exactly do you wire it? Specifically, lets say you have the track wired to the Digital, center stud positive and outside rails negative. You then wire the catenary to a seperate analogue transformer, positive to catenary and do you just not wire the negative from the analogue tranformer to anything? Is that all that is needed?

Thanks for the help.

Chris
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Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 16 August 2011 11:20:02(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,442
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Chris,

Please note that the red output of your transformer is positive (60 times a second) and negative (60 times a second). Same for your digital controller, but changes are much more frequent.

You have to connect the brown output of the analogue transformer to the outer rails and the red output to the catenary.

A short between centre rail and catenary will probably fry your MS1, so avoid this. This could happen if you lift off a tin-plate coach and have the lower coupler touch the centre rail and another part touch the catenary (a screw driver, a piece of M track or other metal parts could also make a short here, so avoid that, too). I'm not sure but I presume nothing happens if catenary power is turned to 0 (but take no risk while catenary power is on).

Catenary won't work if you leave the brown output of the analogue transformer unconnected.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Chris6382chris  
#7 Posted : 16 August 2011 16:33:24(UTC)
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Chris6382chris

United States   
Joined: 27/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,218
Location: Middle of the US
So, I will have the two wires of the ugly box going to the track, brown to outer rail and red to center stud, and I will have the analogue wired also, red to catenary and brown to the outer rail. So I will have both power sources (ugly box and analogue transformer wired to the outer rail), correct?

Thanks.

Chris
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Offline jeehring  
#8 Posted : 16 August 2011 18:15:54(UTC)
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jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
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Originally Posted by: Chris6382chris Go to Quoted Post
So, I will have the two wires of the ugly box going to the track, brown to outer rail and red to center stud, and I will have the analogue wired also, red to catenary and brown to the outer rail. So I will have both power sources (ugly box and analogue transformer wired to the outer rail), correct?

Thanks.

Chris


... this type of double connection - analog catenary + digital central studs with MS 1 - appears quite dangerous to me....
If someone tell you that you can do it, I would like him to say whether he already did it or whether it is based on an assumption...
As for myself I wouldn't do it without serious guaranties...
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Offline Chris6382chris  
#9 Posted : 16 August 2011 22:32:33(UTC)
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Chris6382chris

United States   
Joined: 27/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,218
Location: Middle of the US
Jeehring:

I really appreciate your cautious tone here. I am of the same thinking, that is why I am asking so many questions.

Chris
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Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 17 August 2011 01:15:08(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,442
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post
... this type of double connection - analog catenary + digital central studs with MS 1 - appears quite dangerous to me....

I haven't tried it yet and I don't give anybody any guarantee.

But I plan to do it like that, only with DC on the catenary to run my Roco streetcars.

I don't see any risk as long as centre rail and catenary do not make contact.

You could add a three-position switch so you have power on centre rail/no power/power on catenary to reduce the risk of short-cuts between catenary and centre rail.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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