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ÖBB Schlafwagen + Couchette Coaches - which are the best?
Joined: 10/04/2011(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: UK
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Hi! I have a challenge, wonder if you can help  - I am looking to recreate the following consist (that I travelled on last summer!): EN237 Allegro Don Giovanni [Vienna to Venice, OBB rolling stock] http://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=OeBB&cislo=237&rok=2010&lang=enIt consists of the following: - ÖBB Bcmz73 5991.2 x2 [light grey, blue stripe, "liegewagen" marking]
- ÖBB WLABmz61 7171 x1 [grey, red roof, schalfwagen]
- ÖBB Bcmz73 5991.1 x2 [grey, red roof, unserviced couchette]
Can anyone recommend some good quality (highly detailed) choices of coaches for this? So far, I have come up with the following: - For the blue Bcmz73 5991.2, RAIL TOP-MODELL 32511 seems to be perfect - but are they still being made? Can't get stock anywhere! An alternative could be the Heris HI13087, not sure of the detail though.
- The WLABmz61 7171 seems to be a very difficult one. ACME have a WLABmz 33a (ACME 52641), and LS Models have a WLABmz 7171 T2S (LS 47082). Anyone know if these are close enough? Is the T2S the same as WLABmz61?
- For the red Bcmz73 5991.1, again there is a Rail Top (RAIL TOP-MODELL 32516) that looks spot on - but can't get stock. Does anyone know if they are still producing? Otherwise, there is LS Models 47058 which is apparently a Bcmz 59-90. How close is this to a 59-91?
The train will be pulled by a Piko 57426 Taurus in red OBB livery at the moment - looking for an OBB 1044 instead as I think more realistic for the consist, probably Roco 62443. Thanks a lot for your help!! Shaun
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,245 Location: Montreal, QC
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Shaun,
It is still possible to find the RailTop coaches at a few dealers are even directly from RailTop's website. The shops that have the best leftover stock seem to be Huenerbein in Aachen, Modellbahn Faustmann, Alpnacher Shop in Switzerland, to name a few. You may still be able to find these coaches in either blue/white or red/gray.
The exact couchette coaches (Modularwagen Type) (the first two coaches) were never manufactured by RailTop, but were available by Heris. ACME, Roco and LSM are all scheduled to make all of the Austrian variants of the T2S, including the modified ex-SBB WLA coaches.
My OBB sleepers and couchette coaches include Liliput Bcmz (soon to be replaced by LSM coaches), RailTop's Bcmz in red/gray. RailTop/LSM WLAB 33 (Type P), LSM WLAm, WLABm ex-CNL and the same coaches in red/gray ordered from Memoba.at.
My OBB night train (EN Wiener Walzer) also includes ACME MAV (Hungarian) couchette coaches and 2 SBB Bcm (Roco)
Regards
Mike C
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Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,705 Location: United Kingdom
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Hi Shaun, Welcome to the forum.  |
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
 1 user liked this useful post by steventrain
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Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
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Joined: 10/04/2011(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: UK
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Thanks for the replies, and the welcome steventrain!
Mike C - I checked all those places, useful tip - unfortunately no stock of the Railtop models. If LS are going to be making something similar, that might be another option. Hard to see whether their Bcmz 59-70's, in both blue window banding and grey/red, look similar to the real 5991.1 and 5991.2's without photos. Same story with their WLABmz T2s. (Is a T2s the same as a WLABmz61, do you know?) Hopefully photo's will be added somewhere before they go on sale :-)
Rinus - Thanks. ACME also look very good, but they don't seem to make these "current era" sleepers/couchettes?
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,245 Location: Montreal, QC
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One thing. Memoba is producing a second batch of ex-CNL double deck sleepers (WLABm and WLBm) in the new red/gray livery. Contact Mr Veith for details. As far as the RT couchette coaches, I noticed that there were a few on eBay and others will surely pop up from time to time. I did notice that somebody has listed custom built couchette coaches from the Austrian Hobby Shop (Rainer.at) which are kitbashed Roco models. See: http://cgi.ebay.de/HO-Ro...3569933563#ht_3042wt_907Here is the link for the Heris Modularliegewagen which was never released by RailTop: http://cgi.ebay.at/Heris...5f9ad3312#ht_1212wt_1141 (same seller has another similar coach with different number) Here is the Railtop model on eBay.fr: http://cgi.ebay.fr/LS-Mo...-Bmz-Ep-Va-/300546079620Bonne chasse (Good hunting)! Regards Mike C
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Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
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Hi Shaun,
Now I see you are looking for Era VI rolling stock. I'm concentrating on Era IV ÖBB/FS myself.
I believe roco has a modern T2s in her programme. Jägerndorfer maybe?
What loco are you planning in front of the train? Rh 1216?
Rinus
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,245 Location: Montreal, QC
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Rinus/All,
ACME, Roco and LS Models have all announced models of the T2S in assorted OBB liveries for 2010-2012. The first models have already been released. Many modellers are waiting for the announced LSM models as both the Roco and ACME versions have reported shortcomings. I personally am looking forward to the model of the former SBB WLAm in it's current OBB red/gray livery to complete my OBB EN rolling stock.
@Rinus, did you order the Memoba/LSM Set of 2 ex-CNL WLm in red/gray?
Regards
Mike C
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Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by: mike c  Rinus/All,
ACME, Roco and LS Models have all announced models of the T2S in assorted OBB liveries for 2010-2012. The first models have already been released. Many modellers are waiting for the announced LSM models as both the Roco and ACME versions have reported shortcomings. I personally am looking forward to the model of the former SBB WLAm in it's current OBB red/gray livery to complete my OBB EN rolling stock.
@Rinus, did you order the Memoba/LSM Set of 2 ex-CNL WLm in red/gray?
Regards
Mike C I did not know you where interested in ÖBB too. You are working on an EuroNight transet? I'm afraid I'm running out of budget for this year. I've got the Roco Neuheiten 2011 Rh 4010, Rh 1044 and Jägerndorfer Rh 1822 on order and I'm planning to do some things on my Brennerbahn lay-out which needs funds too. These are difficult times Regards, Rinus
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Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by: mike c  Rinus/All,
ACME, Roco and LS Models have all announced models of the T2S in assorted OBB liveries for 2010-2012. The first models have already been released. Many modellers are waiting for the announced LSM models as both the Roco and ACME versions have reported shortcomings. I personally am looking forward to the model of the former SBB WLAm in it's current OBB red/gray livery to complete my OBB EN rolling stock.
@Rinus, did you order the Memoba/LSM Set of 2 ex-CNL WLm in red/gray?
Regards
Mike C I did not know you where interested in ÖBB too. You are working on an EuroNight transet? I'm afraid I'm running out of budget for this year. I've got the Roco Neuheiten 2011 Rh 4010, Rh 1044 and Jägerndorfer Rh 1822 on order and I'm planning to do some things on my Brennerbahn lay-out which needs funds too. These are difficult times Regards, Rinus
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,245 Location: Montreal, QC
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Rinus, I decided to include an OBB EN consist in my collection after seeing the EN Wiener Walzer in person in Zuerich HB. The train includes a varied assortment of OBB sleepers and couchette coaches, ranging from the 1970s Bcmz, similar to the SBB RIC Coaches to the modern UIC-Z coaches and from the classic metal WLAB Typ P to the modern double deck WLABm and WLBm (ex-CNL), which have largely replaced the sleepers of the T2S design that were previously used on this route. Today, this consist also includes couchette, restaurant and seating coaches of the Hungarian MAV. Here is the current consist (SBB Segment): http://www.reisezuege.ch...?action=13&komp=2430As the T2S and the modern couchettes are not seen on this route anymore, my current priorities have been the limited production double deck (ex-CNL) coaches by LSM for Memoba Vienna and the coming UIC-X Bcmz in both white/blue and white/red/gray liveries. I will likely order one or two of the coming LSM T2S models as well, mostly to replace older models by Heris that I already have in my collection. For OBB fans, ACME has a few sets, the Holland-Austria Express and the Wiener Walzer, which are both very interesting. For modern coaches, the RailTop ones were the best. Some dealers may still have the occasional item in stock. Regards Mike C
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Joined: 10/04/2011(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: UK
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Hi all, Thanks for the great replies. I've done a lot of research now, and it seems that the T2S sleeping car is well catered for, but the couchettes may be tricky! I've come up with the most accurate options: Accurate Option: * WLABmz 61 81 71-71 T2S ---> LS MODELS 47082 * Bcmz 73 81 59-91 100-108 ---> Railtop 32515, 32516 * Bcmz 73 81 59-91 200-219 --> Heris 13085, 13086, 13087
The Railtop models may be tricky to get hold of (and expensive!), and the Heris models are not as detailed as the LS models. Allowing for some 'artistic licence', the following could be switched out without looking too wrong: Alternatives: * Bcmz 73 81 59-91 100-108 ---> LS MODELS 47054, 47058 --> Bcmz 59-70 * Bcmz 73 81 59-91 200-219 --> LS MODELS 47053, 47057 --> Bcmz 59-70
All the LS Models items should be available (not yet released), so I am swinging towards that - and in the future improving the accuracy of the consist if some Bcmz 59-91's get produced by LS / ACME / Roco (or Railtop if they start again!). What do you think? Is a 59-70 similar enough to a 59-91? Oh, and does anyone know what the shortcomings of the ACME T2S are? Will the LS be a better option? Thanks for your help! Shaun
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Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,879 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Shaun,
Welcome to the forum,
Can't you change your train ticket from Couchette and upgrade it to a sleeping car ?
Only joking.
I'm also interested in Oebb Model Trains
any photos of your current stock ?
John |
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Joined: 10/04/2011(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: UK
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Thanks for the welcome John.
Unfortunately it seems pretty difficult to upgrade to a sleeper on the real train, I guess because there is only one car. In my case, there weren't even any couchettes available, so we had to take a 'seat'. Thankfully that actually meant 'unserviced couchette'. I think sitting upright in a 6 seat compartment for 8 hours might have been a bit much! :-)
Anyway, this will be my entry into ÖBB modelling. I currently have an Rh 1044 that will pull the consist, and a 2nd class passenger car by Roco which I will use on another train. My current collection is all of British stock, so I'm going to have to build two layouts in one to separate the two gauges - perhaps some water in the middle! I also have a red Roco DB schienenbus just because I think it looks great, so that'll require a little artistic licence too!
I'm interested in modelling (current Era) Tyrol here, so I'll also be adding an Italian sleeper set, and some local ÖBB alpine passenger services. And a cable car which I will have to scratchbuild!
At the moment the layout is only in my head, as I don't have space to build anything permanent. However that should change next year, so in the meantime I am getting the rolling stock sorted. :-)
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Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,879 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Shaun,
I remember travelling on a train from Graz to Hannover in the late 50's and being a kid I've discovered we finished up in a carriage (DB) whereas you were able to fold down all the 6 seats. The idea behind it was not only for sleeping but more or less prevented other passenger to occupy the compartment.
I have various Oebb carriages, from ERA 2 right up to ERA 5. bur haven't got any railjet carriages. I've bought some Marklin ones many years back but in those days Marklin bought out a carriage, if you lucky a 1st & 2nd class car but never a consist of anything.
My Oebb locos consists of: mainly
E-locos: 1089(R), 1010(R), 1014()(, 1016(M), 1018(R), 1041(M), 1042(R), 1043(M), 1044(R), 4010(R), Have to get a 1020, 1670
than Diesel: 2016, 2045, 2048,
and
4 steam locos, 2 x 2'10's, 1x 2'6' (Rh 674), 1 x 2' 6' 2' (Rh 86). (all Marklin)
regards., John
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Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
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Hi all, We should start a ÖBB tread, with all these ÖBB enthousiasts!! To get to shauns question: " Is a 59-70 similar enough to a 59-91? " I realy do not know, allthough I travel with CNL and EN nighttrains regularly. But I think Mike can help you there. There is a intresting review of the Roco T2S here: Review 2TsThe "Austria Express" from ACME is tested too: Review Austria ExpressThe Rh 1044 is a nice choise. These are the "OBB" models I have now: Rh 1010, Rh 1012, Rh 1020, Rh 1040, Rh 1042 (x2), Rh 1043, Rh 1044 tandem, Rh 1670, Rh 2043 I've got a couple on order as well: Rh 4010 train set, Rh 1044, Rh 1822 (Jägernd.) All roco except for the Rh 1822 (Jägernd.) and the Rh 1012 (Marklin) My Roling stock is a mix of Roco, Marklin and Acme for the larger part. I have chosen to buy 1:87 coaches only. regards, Rinus
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Joined: 10/04/2011(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: UK
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The Austria express looks lovely, so much detail! Even the calling stations written on. This is definitely what is swaying me to the LS models instead of going for complete accuracy. (i know the link is ACME but I am lead to believe quality is the same)
Hopefully Mike can advise on the differences between the Bcmz 59-90 and 59-70. From looking at photos, they appear pretty similar.
Have been looking at the Brawa 6342 Kitzbuhel gondola set the last couple of days too.... going to be an expensive year! ;-)
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Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by: scrauny  The Austria express looks lovely, so much detail! Even the calling stations written on. This is definitely what is swaying me to the LS models instead of going for complete accuracy. (i know the link is ACME but I am lead to believe quality is the same)
Hopefully Mike can advise on the differences between the Bcmz 59-90 and 59-70. From looking at photos, they appear pretty similar.
Have been looking at the Brawa 6342 Kitzbuhel gondola set the last couple of days too.... going to be an expensive year! ;-) Life can be hard for your creditcard Concerning quality, detail and scale ACME and LS Models are among the best. They are relitavely cheap too. They are very popular here in the Netherlands among the more serious trainmodelists. I treasure my 5 ACME coaches. every time I look at them I discover new details. Have you seen the Rh 1016/1116/1216 Taurus family from Jägerndorfer? They are very nice too. Not to mention their Rh 1822 and Rh 4010. Regards, Rinus
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,245 Location: Montreal, QC
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Originally Posted by: scrauny  The Austria express looks lovely, so much detail! Even the calling stations written on. This is definitely what is swaying me to the LS models instead of going for complete accuracy. (i know the link is ACME but I am lead to believe quality is the same)
Hopefully Mike can advise on the differences between the Bcmz 59-90 and 59-70. From looking at photos, they appear pretty similar.
Have been looking at the Brawa 6342 Kitzbuhel gondola set the last couple of days too.... going to be an expensive year! ;-) The Austria Express looks nice. The add-on NS WLAB MU completes the set very nicely. Regarding OBB couchette coaches: The 59-70 are older couchette coaches that were built along the lines of the SBB RIC coaches. There were various series of these coaches, some with 10 and some with only 9 compartments. These coaches are similar to the original K-Wagen Salon coaches, which were also developed along the lines of the SBB RIC coaches. The 59-90 are upgraded modified versions of this coach type. http://www.railfaneurope...ight/Bc/59-70_0/pix.htmlModels from Liliput (incorrect details) and newly announced from LSM The 59-91 are more modern couchette coaches that were built along the lines of the OBB EC coaches from the 1990s. http://www.railfaneurope...ight/Bc/59-91_1/pix.htmlModels from RailTop some may have also been released by LSM from the same molds A further set of couchette coaches (59-91) were built along the lines of the Modularwagen, which was intended to be the next generation of Intercity/Eurocity coaches. http://www.railfaneurope...ight/Bc/59-91_2/pix.htmlBoth of these newer types are assigned numbers beginning with 73 81 instead of 61 81. Models from Heris. See here for more details on models: Couchettes: http://www.modellbahninfo.org/data/oebb_pw_bc.pdfSleepers: http://www.modellbahninfo.org/data/oebb_pw_wl.pdfOBB Traction and Rolling Stock: http://www.modellbahninfo.orgRegards Mike C
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Joined: 10/04/2011(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: UK
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Originally Posted by: rinus c  Have you seen the Rh 1016/1116/1216 Taurus family from Jägerndorfer? They are very nice too. Not to mention their Rh 1822 and Rh 4010. The Rh 1822 would look nice with some passenger coaches behind it - in the deep red. I believe I've seen these running between alpine towns and Schwarzach / Salzburg / Villach. Originally Posted by: mike c  Thanks very much for the details of the differences. Do you know if LSM are planning any 59-91 (1/2) models from the Railtop moulds? The only models of the 59-91 appear to have been by Railtop and Heris, neither are still being made (both companies went under?) - and both pretty expensive to get hold of (Railtop ones go for 90 euros+ on eBay, and the Heris ones although cheaper are still more expensive and seem much less detailed than the LSM 59-70's). Edited by user 26 April 2011 10:20:04(UTC)
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ÖBB Schlafwagen + Couchette Coaches - which are the best?
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