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Viessmann light signals and K-83 deoders
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Offline Bahn-an-arama  
#1 Posted : 27 January 2011 12:57:32(UTC)
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Bahn-an-arama

Australia   
Joined: 30/12/2007(UTC)
Posts: 300
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Hey guys,

Can anyone confirm that using a bi-stable relay- such as one on the link below, is definitely the way to connect a k-83 decoder to a signal module, then to the Viessmann light (ONLY) signal, or is this method wrong??

LINK TO Signal Module:

http://www.neusens.de/sh...%3D249%26aid%3DSTLSBS%26

LINK TO Bi-stable relay:

http://www.conrad-intern...=SHOP_AREA_17035_1607513

I am looking for the cheapest way around without having to purchase expensive K-84's.

Could anyone explain the hook-up to a 6021 controller/6040 keyboard please?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. RollEyes Smile






Glenn
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#2 Posted : 27 January 2011 18:07:53(UTC)
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DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
that signal module description states it is driven by an impulse. ("Ansteuerung : Masseimpuls") I take that to mean it is driven by a k83 and not a k84, so you wont need the relays.

My Viessmans signal modules are also k83 driven and the modules do the latching for the signal.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
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Offline Bahn-an-arama  
#3 Posted : 28 January 2011 13:33:28(UTC)
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Bahn-an-arama

Australia   
Joined: 30/12/2007(UTC)
Posts: 300
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Thanks Dale, yes I understandn what you are saying. i had another go today, however still no luck. I am still a little unsure whether the module has a bi-stable relay or not and whether or not I am correctly connecting it to the K-83?

Appreciate your thoughts.

Mellow
Glenn
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Offline Piggy  
#4 Posted : 28 January 2011 13:47:13(UTC)
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Piggy

Australia   
Joined: 08/05/2009(UTC)
Posts: 590
Location: Sydney
Hi Glenn,

I use a Viessmann K84 (latching) decoder kit, controling the light for the signal and driving the relay in home made break module with non-latching relay, publish on this site some years back. If works well, and is a cheap solution.
Regards
Kenneth
CS1 update - K & C tracks - German Era 3B & 4, with some Swiss and Austrian visitors. - My Layout
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Offline rschaffr  
#5 Posted : 28 January 2011 13:54:21(UTC)
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rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,193
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
I use the LDT light controller LS-DEC-DB. It provides slow changes to the lights
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#6 Posted : 28 January 2011 17:00:37(UTC)
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DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
it said "Masseimpuls" so I would take that to mean a grounding impulse. Try just using a ground wire on its input to momentarily ground it. See if that triggers it to change the signal...

i.e. build up from known principles....

1. is the signal working (apply DC current to test according to signal instructions)
if so then
2. connect to signal module then try the manual grounding...

now I cant recall if k83 output is a momentary ground or non-ground output....
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline Bahn-an-arama  
#7 Posted : 31 January 2011 16:49:59(UTC)
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Bahn-an-arama

Australia   
Joined: 30/12/2007(UTC)
Posts: 300
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Dale,

Lights are working off the module. I can change the aspect using the RED and GREEN wire that run to the K-83. This holds and you hear the relay ticking over with the change. However, when the relative button on the Marklin Keyboard are depressed- no change happens.

Hope you would be so kind as to enlighten me further,

Huh Confused Confused Confused
Glenn
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#8 Posted : 31 January 2011 19:39:22(UTC)
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DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
OK that is progress... now for the k83... connect two lights to the three outputs (red, green and yellow common)

this is to you can see when the k83 actually does something. (one light should flash for a moment each time)

Check that you have the correct address of the k83 module. How are you driving the k83 ? (I don't have the modern Märklin controllers so I wont be able to help there, but I do know you have to be using the right address)
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline Bahn-an-arama  
#9 Posted : 01 February 2011 15:54:20(UTC)
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Bahn-an-arama

Australia   
Joined: 30/12/2007(UTC)
Posts: 300
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Hi Dale,

Checked k-83 decoder address and it is correct, double-checked by installing another Marklin solenoid signal and worked as normal with Keyboard buttons.

As for the Viessmann 4001 signal-

* signal to K-83- no action
* signal to module then red/green/yellow of K-83- no response
* same as above but momentary ground HP0, HP1 etc...- relay ticked backed and forth- aspect changed but did not hold.

So I think the momentary pulse action must be negative grounding.....Confused Confused Confused
Is that correct?

The seller assured me they would work with K-83, but I can't quite get my head around it- even tried another module incase one was faulty, but still the same results

Thanks for your help thus far.ThumpUp

Glenn
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#10 Posted : 02 February 2011 04:08:11(UTC)
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DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
I cant fault your logic...

you demonstrate the k83 works

you find a momentary grounding on the module works BUT it does not hold... - didn't you say before that it latched (held the aspect?)
>>I can change the aspect using the RED and GREEN wire that run to the K-83. This holds and you hear the relay ticking over with the change.<<

if that is so then it does sound like it wants a k84 rather than a k83 and the k84 would switch a ground to the signal module aspect input.

which brings you back to the original post of using a latching relay and a k83 to drive it...


but are k84s more expensive than k83s... what is the price differential?
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline nevw  
#11 Posted : 02 February 2011 05:02:39(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Using Viessmann Prices Ex VAT 5213 K84 31.92 Euro 5211 K83 10.41 EUR
Maerklin Prices a lot more

nn
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
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Offline Bahn-an-arama  
#12 Posted : 02 February 2011 13:10:01(UTC)
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Bahn-an-arama

Australia   
Joined: 30/12/2007(UTC)
Posts: 300
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Thanks Dale and Nev, for the info. Yes K-84 are expensive, Viessmann is a cheaper alternative, so I think I will have to investigate further.

Maybe I will contact the seller again and seek further clarification, however my technical German is not the best when it comes to electronics and all technical talk.....lol Confused Confused Scared
Maybe the bi-stable relay module would be the way to go, as this is all that the Marklin/Viessmann K-84 technically are.

Thanx.
ThumpUp
Glenn
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#13 Posted : 02 February 2011 17:39:45(UTC)
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DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
yes, the relays will be cheaper combined with a k83.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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