Hi Steve,

Welcome to the forum.

Ian.

Hi, Steve,

the new Mobile Stations from Trix and Märklin are technically the same. They support DCC, MM, and mfx. The Delta decoders use MM, so they will work, too.
You may be limited to running one loco at the time, but you can register up to 10 locos per Mobile Station (and up to 2 Mobile Stations can be used allowing 20 locos). So this should fit.

On the small display you can see two accessories (turnouts, signals, etc.) at the time. So for a small diorama with few accessories, that will do.
Accessories can still be controlled the conventional (analog) way. Digitally controlled accessories make sense if you want to have automatic control (but the Mobile Station is not capable of any automatic control so you can save the money for turnout decoders).

hello Big Daddy & Tom..
I appreciate so much your kind words of encouragement..
to Big Daddy first if I may..all sounds very positive but I need to understand a bit more..

Firstly the mobile station 2 is this the one i keep seeing on ebay being sold from what looks like Spur 1 start sets e.t.c.=Märklin 60653 Mobile,then there is the Märklin mobile Station 60652 and of course the Central station ,which will be to expensive for me new or used! i`m afraid. but I think i understand the connection in the chain using a mobile staion + the 60112 box; am interested to learn about how the 6021 control unit works,and what it offers? as against other options.
I see the 60212 central sation is maybe the older version is this correct? and again how good is this unit and if you guys were me given the basic criteria set out whaich combo would you use/best?

Tom..
I thank you for your suggestions also..so if we follow on from above ..If for example I run a T3 with sound functions and I wish to utilise all the functions available both sound options + lights,smoke e.t.c. any of the mobile stations mensioned would suffice,,? ok I add marklin/Besig signals two ground one main..few lights here and there I wish my loks to slow down,speed up + all these wonderful functions i keep reading about is this all possible or

Quote:

not?..

Digitally controlled accessories make sense if you want to have automatic control (but the Mobile Station is not capable of any automatic control so you can save the money for turnout d

ecoders).please bare with me guys,I have neurological problems cause a lot of confusion and hinders my ability to understand..it usually gets ther but takes a wee bit of time I am unsure waht I am looking at so please forgive me here...automatic control could someone explain what this means as against the mobiles not offering this fuction..sorry if I have nor phrased that very well

all the best Steve

Hi Ranjit.
many thanks indeed for your most kind welcome much appreciated

all the best & a very merry Christmas!
from a very,very snowy Norway
Cheers Steve

The old Mobile Station 60652 doesn't support DCC and it's limited to 9 functions per loco.
The new Mobile Station 60653 does support DCC and it supports 16 functions per loco. Thus you can control all functions of mfx locos and only few DCC locos have more than 16 functions either.

Central Stations support advanced features such as shuttle trains or automization of shadow stations.
A shuttle train could be an option for you, but I presume you won't need a shadow station for your diorama.

Mobile Stations don't have interfaces for feedback from the track (contact tracks, curcuit tracks, etc.) and cannot react automatically. With Central Stations you can use S88 decoders to trigger signals and turnouts automatically.

Hi Steve,

A warm welcome from me too.

Cheers

Renato

Merry Christmas Renato
Thank you for the welcome...

all the best St eve

Hi Steve

1. Go for it ! Spur 1 sounds great.
2. Since you have 3m, space, I suspect that the operations you can carry out with train movements will be limited, so I suspect that a relatively simple controller will be all you need.
3. I like the idea of the diorama - some of only achieve that as part of a larger plan anyway !
4. I would go for super detailing and perhaps some nicely chosen 'active' accessories - like the interior of a signal box that looks out onto the rails.
5. I would also go for just the steam depot - lots of interesting things packed into a small area, and you can have lots of locos in one place. A roundhouse would be too large and waste too much space, but a coaling, water, sand and slag pits would give you lots to work on. They could end up in a well detailed loco shed, (perhaps open to the viewer on one side) and just use turnouts for bringing locos out the shed and run past the incoming lines back out to the mainline (outside of the diorama)
6. etc.

BTW when my wife an I camped around Europe in 1989 we found a preserved train just East of Kristiansand - you probably know it well. We got there on a Saturday to learn that the Sunday was a running day, so to my wife's disgust we camped in the engine yard! I went on the rail inspection run with some Norwegian guy who spoke no English (and I spoke no Norwegian) before the steam train did its Sunday runs. Great memories !

Hi Steve,

yes indeed, Setasdalbahn ! When I get home I can look up the name of one of the chaps there...

If you cant get out, do you have any programming skills? I got great pleasure from writing my own train control software - perhaps you can too! If not, you will have plenty to do with the diorama...

I am toying with the idea of making my software available to others, but mine only works with the Intellibox.... a fine controller and well ahead of its time ! I also have the computer play sounds based on various events happening on the layout. There are lots of conrtol programs out there, and now smart phones can act as train controllers too!

Hi Dale
I did go to bed,but am not feeling to great so decided to get up and resume the Diorama trail
Intellibox? interesting this as come up a few times during my modelling travels...how does it compare to the marklin Central Station 60212..I am looking for the best possible for the least amount of money

Your Computer knowledge sounds extensive and I suspect your set up is superb!would love to hear more if you can spare the time dale

all the best Steve

The "least amount of money" leads to the Delta Control 4f #66045. I bought some for Euro 1 each.

The "best possible?"
There is no easy answer, because some prefer ECoS or CS1 reloaded, some prefer CS2, some prefer Viessmann Commander, other think Tams MC is the best.
Intellibox is another option if the price matters.

Which amount of money are we talking about?


For many years I used the Intellibox to control my layout - and I used the CS 60212 only to program mfx locos.
But the Intellibox Upgrade 2.0 was vapourware for many years. I bought the ESU upgrade CS1 reloaded for the 60212 and now I use the 60212 for the layout - and the Intellibox is used only to program DCC locos.
The Intellibox upgrade was a big disappointment: many announced features are missing and it came several years after the announced date. Too little, too late.

Intellibox doesn't support mfx, but it uses the Loconet bus. Many people still use it, some because they need the Loconet bus, others because it can be used as a PC interface for computer controlled layouts.

Hi Steve. The Marklin CS2 is the one to go for, Intellibox is a specialist type controller and the firm as said above are very slow with support. The Viessmann also sells in tiny numbers like the Intellibox and I am not sure is anybody on the forum here has one.
I do not have a Marklin Spur 1 catalogue but I think they have start sets and if there is a mega start set you will get a CS2 very cheap. Even a start set with an MS2 (if available) would be a good way to go to get things up and running.
This way you get track and loco and wagon and control system along with,I would hope, a useful booklet.
I dont know where you are thinking of buying but I use Lokshop who have an excellent web site and the prices are about as good as you can get and they also pack well.

dave

Hi, Steve!

The Märklin CS 60212 was developed by ESU for Märklin. The hardware is only slightly different from the ESU ECoS 50000.
If you buy one, take care to get one with the Märklin hardware upgrade (with software 2.0.3 or higher installed).
The latest software published by Märklin is 2.0.4 - if you have 2.0.3 you can do the update yourself.

Version 2.0.4 is OK, but it's rather old and lacks some current features (you cannot use DCC, you cannot set the speed of a loco using the touch screen).

An upgrade is available from ESU: CS1 reloaded (RRP is about 160 Euro, some dealers have it cheaper).
With version 3.3.x the CS1 reloaded can compete with the CS2 (Central Station 60213, 60214).
CS1 reloaded still has a monochrome display (320x240 pixels) while CS2 has a colour display (640x480 pixels).

CS1 reloaded includes a power supply (90 Watts). ESU makes a CD-R that will work with your CS1 only, therefore you must specify the serial number of your CS1 while ordering the CS1 reloaded upgrade. The upgrade worked fine for me (I had to click "Next" a few times, then I had to wait 15 minutes - and that was it; if upgrade fails it might show you a German error message, but the forum should be able to help you; once installed you can select English from the CS settings).
So if time matters, you might prefer to buy an upgraded CS1 or a compatible ECoS 50000.

I cannot decide whether a CS1 2.0.4, a CS1 reloaded, or a CS2 will work best for you.
CS1 reloaded is much faster than CS1 2.0.4 and usability has improved a lot. And "reloaded" includes a power supply while the original 60212 normally comes without power unit.

When I use a CS2 I miss several of the new features of a CS1 reloaded (loco selection is much more easy, but with less than 10 locos it probably won't make a difference for you).
A chap who bought them both has written a very detailed review on Stummi's Forum. It's a close race and in the end it's a matter of personal preference which one is best for you.

CS2 was developed by Märklin. I hope on December 21 it will be thumbs up to get Märklin out of insolvency. Otherwise this could be a sudden death for Märklin and the CS2.
CS1 reloaded is supported and will be repaired by ESU.
CS1 "unreloaded" will be repaired neither by ESU nor by Märklin.

So it's a complicated matter and every new answer will bring up several new questions ...
... feel free to ask them.

Hello Tom,

Must really thank you most sincerely for your patience in explaining what is a some what slightly complex set of issues? surrounding the CSs
as you and everyone else will fully understand and appreciate,folk like me,could be so easily put off by these complexities.

CS1 reloaded is looking favourite to me..as it stands Tom.There seems to be a massive differnce in price between the CS1 & CS2 ?
The Märklin CS1 60212 with all its latest upgrades e.t.c. seems a better value way to go to me..if I have understood you Tom.

I

Quote:

Version 2.0.4 is OK, but it's rather old and lacks some current features (you cannot use DCC, you cannot set the speed of a loco using the touch screen).

cannot decide whether a CS1 2.0.4, a CS1 reloaded, or a CS2 will work best for you.
CS1 reloaded is much faster than CS1 2.0.4 and usability has improved a lot. And "reloaded" includes a power supply while the original 60212 normally comes without power unit.

this is the bit i was/am getting bogged down a bit with?so CS1-2.0.4. is not the same as CS1 reloaded? IE.I will be able to use the following quoted features? but only if I go for CS 1Reloaded...





Black & white is more than fine for me.so my friend lets say ok! lets go withe CS1-Reloaded
so I do not continue to confuse me updates with me hardware what is the ball park cost of this CS1 uploade with all latest bells & whistles e.t.c.

look forward to hearing from you

many thanks once again Steve

Having used both I would not like to return to the CS1 just because of the poor screen compared with the CS2.
However for Steve there may be a case for using the MS2 as with few locos and no complicated routes etc it could well do the job.
With a CS1 not longer being made there will not I expect be any warranty as against Marlklin with two years bacxk up on the CS2.
Might be good to hear if we have anybody using Spur 1 with a MS2.

dave

The features are not really limited. It supports no automation, but OTOH how much automation do you need for a diorama?

I said before that in my opinion the Mobile Station 2 could be a good start for you.
It's perfect for locos with up to 8 function (it supports 16 functions per loco, but the other 8 will be on a second screen). It's good if you only have a handful of accessories to control with it (you can use external control boxes to control signals and accessories).

On my layout I control the trains - I don't want automation or PC control.

Hi, Steve,

what you describe in your last post is normally done automatically by the loco decoder (provided it's a sound decoder).

All current decoders have acceleration and braking delay and the loco will slowly change its speed.
With steam locos, you press the button for the whistle, but coal is fed automatically and other sounds are also played at random. Brakes will squeal automatically before train comes to stop.

All this will work with a Mobile Station (MS2 strongly recommended).

I think Viessmann do a type of s88 decoder. My view is that is there is little difference in cost then go for Marklin. I run my s88 with the CS2 ... I am not sure how this works with a MS2 but maybe Tom can explain.
s88 decoders give feedback and work with signals and turnouts and allow you to see where locos are on a certain part of the layout (this is not necessary for you.)
There are other maufacturers of shuttle type control but I do not own any so not sure how they work etc.


dave

Welcome to this forum Steve from a freezing cold western France.
I'm on the learning curve you're on and i know it sounds absolutely baffling(spelt wrong i think) but you will get on top of it, and you will get a great sense of achievement when you run your first Loco.
The guys on this site will help with any problems you come across, and don't worry about asking any type of questions, even really basic one's like the ones i've asked.

I hope you have a happy Christmas

Kevin

This feature is included in the Central Station, but it can also be done with a separate module like this one: http://tams-online.de/htmls/produkte/pzs2/produkte_pzs2.html. Use the DC version, since the AC version is not compatible with all decoders. AFAIK all Märklin spur I locos have decoders that can run on AC, DC and digital power.

Since you will probably not have muck room for a lot of tracks, this module could be all you need to control the layout. A Mobile Station 2 would in any case be enough. The only reason to choose a Central Station would be if you need automatic operation of the shuttle train and at the same time manual control of other trains and accessories...

Using this shuttle module, you won't need a Central Station - but it should be noted that trains will then run in analog mode (not digital mode). This means: no switchable functions, operating sounds will be on for some locos and off for other locos.