Joined: 21/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 206 Location: Netherlands
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Hi all,
I am building my new layout, and I reached the phase of test-running. Great to see the trains back on track again.
On the layout so far I use 16 blocks, controlled by contact rails, which trigger the usual routes. And I use several shadow stations with a total of 20 tracks, controlled by reeds, which trigger another set of routes. So in total some 36 routes to make the trains run as they should.
Now the big question. Everything seems to be working just great, as long as I do NOT use the CS2 manually. If I do use it, to select a loc, or to set some swithces or whatever, things go wrong. It seems that CS2 does not complete the routes that are triggered at the time I use the CS2 manually. The last command of the routes (?) seems to be ignored. On the layout-screens everything looks ok, but in "real life" signals are not switched as they are supposed to.
Not a disaster on routes: it means that a signal that should go green, remains red. Trains come to a "controlled" stop. But quite a problem in shadow stations: signals not set to red as they should, cause collisions later on.
Has anybody else experienced anything like this? Any explanations or workarounds?
Peter |
Peter |
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Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC) Posts: 1,339 Location: USA
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ETE  ECoS iTrain TouchCab C-Gleis German Era Id & IIIb USA Era IIIb SBB Era III SJ Era IV GC Era V |
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Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,
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about the thread "https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=17111"....... it was in case of connection to a PC software ...I think. S88 is slow by nature . (seems enough for trains) I read on other forums that above 20 S88-contacts ECos looses its head....(from people using PC software too...)They prefer to choose another way to connect S88 bus to the PC... I don't trust too much what is said on forums excepted from some rare serious & wellknown contributors that are easily recognizable to their way of presenting & explaining things clearly & soberly.... Edited by user 25 October 2010 12:39:44(UTC)
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Joined: 21/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 206 Location: Netherlands
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Thomas, you are right, it seems to be the same (Dutch?) problem.
My layout is much smaller then that of Steamer01. Only 3 boosters, 1 for the K83's en K84's, 2 for shadow stations. So far the max amount of locs running is 4, with another 16 waiting in shadow stations. Just like Steamer01 is that the problem seems to occur when I use the CS-2 to select a loc from the list.
And though things seem to get better with version 1.4.0 (which I haven't updated yet, waiting for the USB-version), apparantly it is not yet solved.
Brands: my K83 are most Märklin. I have some Viessman, but those are not in use yet. K84's are most Viessman. S88: 2 Märklin, 1 Viessman.
And no, I do not use computer control, not even a network. A pretty simple CS-2 stand alone situation, you might say.
Peter |
Peter |
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Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC) Posts: 1,339 Location: USA
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Pavle wrote:Thomas, you are right, it seems to be the same (Dutch?) problem.
My layout is much smaller then that of Steamer01. Only 3 boosters, 1 for the K83's en K84's, 2 for shadow stations. So far the max amount of locs running is 4, with another 16 waiting in shadow stations. Just like Steamer01 is that the problem seems to occur when I use the CS-2 to select a loc from the list.
And though things seem to get better with version 1.4.0 (which I haven't updated yet, waiting for the USB-version), apparantly it is not yet solved.
Brands: my K83 are most Märklin. I have some Viessman, but those are not in use yet. K84's are most Viessman. S88: 2 Märklin, 1 Viessman.
And no, I do not use computer control, not even a network. A pretty simple CS-2 stand alone situation, you might say.
Peter Peter, It would seem that CS2 users of larger layouts using the CS to it's fullest potential are having this hiccup. There is some discussion about Marklin working on a "fix" Do you feed track power through the C track, or do you run feeder wire connected every couple of meters? Which transformers are you using for your boosters? I am a believer in separation. Clapcott has written about this. I go for track power feeds, all accessories like lights, signals, and scenery with separate power, and using LDT or Viessmann K83, K84, S88 with a separate power feed from the track or any other power user. r/Thomas |
ETE  ECoS iTrain TouchCab C-Gleis German Era Id & IIIb USA Era IIIb SBB Era III SJ Era IV GC Era V |
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Joined: 21/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 206 Location: Netherlands
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Hi Thomas,
Lots of feeder wires on my layout. Maybe not exactly every 2 meters, but one for every 3 meters (average). The boosters are 6017, powered by the older black-and-white transformers. The CS2 has the new, grey transformer.
I think I separated what can be separated: CS-2 "feeds" main line/station, one booster does shadow station A, another booster is for shadow station B, and the third booster feeds K83 and K84. Scenery and lights are not in place yet, but they will get another fully independant power feed.
I guess I will have to wait for the fix by Märklin to solve this problem. Any tips or tricks for avoiding the problem? (apart from NOT selecting locs - that does the trick, but reduces playing options quite a bit...)
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Peter |
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Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,919 Location: Auckland,
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It certainly sounds like the problem is in the CS and not related to power feeds. I hope they can find a fix.
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Joined: 21/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 206 Location: Netherlands
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Did some more test running:
- not using the shadow stations, so only the 16 routes for the block system are used - 6 trains chasing one another
Works fine without manual interference, all blocks do what they are supposed to do (= set this signal to red, previous signal to green). But try selecting a loc a few times: some signals do not turn green, trains come to a stop.
- same, but only 2 trains running
Now, at any point in time, only 2 routes can be triggered. Not a big deal, I'd say. But the problem remains the same
- Thinking that only the last command of the routes is not working properly, I created a few dummy switches. Each route now has the structure: set this signal to red, previous signal to green, and switch a dummy.
Did not solve the problem.
So I think it is not a problem only for big layouts that use the CS2 to it's limits. It seems to be a problem for any layout: using routes with S88 AND selecting locs don't go together. Must be a bug in the loc-selection-function.
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Peter |
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Joined: 16/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 151 Location: The Netherlands
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Yes, there are more of us. I reported the problem to Märklin and hope that they will solve this. Also in the German forum (Stummi) there are some people that reported this problem of the none switching routes in some special cases.
Steamer01 |
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Joined: 21/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 206 Location: Netherlands
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Installed version 1.4.0 today. Did not seem to make any difference to this problem. |
Peter |
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand
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My CS2 with update 1.4.0 and GFP 1.35 will not communicate with any of my K83's. It still seems to communicate OK with turnouts that have onboard decoders.
If I replace the CS2 with my CS1, all the K83's work fine.
I haven't tried any train routes as yet, though.
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,442 Location: DE-NW
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Bigdaddynz wrote:If I replace the CS2 with my CS1, all the K83's work fine. Have you swapped the red and brown wires on the plug? CS2 has them turned 180° vs. CS1. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand
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H0 wrote:Have you swapped the red and brown wires on the plug? CS2 has them turned 180° vs. CS1. Yes, I have the appropriate plug/cable for each CS each pre wired to a piece of track, which I swap around on the layout. I also checked the protocol setting for the K83 on the CS2, it is set to MM.
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Joined: 21/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 206 Location: Netherlands
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Bigdaddynz wrote:My CS2 with update 1.4.0 and GFP 1.35 will not communicate with any of my K83's. It still seems to communicate OK with turnouts that have onboard decoders.
If I replace the CS2 with my CS1, all the K83's work fine.
I haven't tried any train routes as yet, though. Same update here. Results so far: - switches and signals - via K83 - work fine - routes work fine - triggered by hand - routes work fine - triggered by S88, as long as I don't do anything else. Routes by S88 in combination with loc selection (or any other manual input to CS2) do not work properly, as before. |
Peter |
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Joined: 04/11/2010(UTC) Posts: 191 Location: South Africa.
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Hallo all. I am new to this forum and i think its great. I have the same problem as peter where as more and more trains go then some of the routes are not completed. Could it be that as more power is consumed that the cs2 still transmits the command but somehow somewhere the command is lost. I am thinking of adding more boosters, do you think this will help. Thanks Andreas |
Pure Marklin - Steam is my Passion |
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Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC) Posts: 1,339 Location: USA
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Andreas K wrote:Hallo all. I am new to this forum and i think its great. I have the same problem as peter where as more and more trains go then some of the routes are not completed. Could it be that as more power is consumed that the cs2 still transmits the command but somehow somewhere the command is lost. I am thinking of adding more boosters, do you think this will help. Thanks Andreas Andreas, Welcome to the forum. There maybe an issue with the CS2 and poor or slow feedback polling. This has been mentioned to Marklin. At issue when using the CS2 to run routes, either with a few trains, or many is the operator initiating a manual selection on the CS2 while routes are active. The initiation of a manual selection seems to interrupt the route, causing an item like a turnout or a signal not to operate causing missed commands and trains colliding as a worse case example. This requires a fix from Marklin. Is your issue solely when routes are running, or when routes are selected and you do a manual intervention? Can you describe your layout a bit and what you are using for triggers and feedback? Regards, Thomas |
ETE  ECoS iTrain TouchCab C-Gleis German Era Id & IIIb USA Era IIIb SBB Era III SJ Era IV GC Era V |
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Joined: 16/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 151 Location: The Netherlands
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Andreas K wrote:Hallo all. I am new to this forum and i think its great. I have the same problem as peter where as more and more trains go then some of the routes are not completed. Could it be that as more power is consumed that the cs2 still transmits the command but somehow somewhere the command is lost. I am thinking of adding more boosters, do you think this will help. Thanks Andreas Welcome in the forum. Your problem (is my problem) has nothing to do with adding more boosters. I myself use 8 MFX boosters and the CS2 has only to give commends to the signals. Nothing else. The digital signals are powered by a special power module and a separate transformer. So I have power enough but the routes are not all switched when I am looking for other lay outs or other trains in the CS2. Steamer01 |
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Joined: 18/02/2010(UTC) Posts: 43 Location: Netherlands
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I do not have the problems as described but I have established my layout somewhat else. The CS2 with its trafo switches only the signals and points and my 4 boosters with their trafos provide the track with power. I have separated the ground of the K83, K84, signals and points completely from the ground of the rail track thus creating two different loops. I discovered that because my lay out didn't work properly and after the separation the problems were over. I am still changing my layout because I found out that my digital system which I created in 1988 according to the Märklin book 0305 (Dutch) or 0306 (German) is completely different from the CS2 system especially in the use of contact tracks. Therefore I check everything critically. It also costed me a CS2 (repaired in Germany).
Jan
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Joined: 21/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 206 Location: Netherlands
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Steamer01 wrote: Your problem (is my problem) has nothing to do with adding more boosters. I myself use 8 MFX boosters and the CS2 has only to give commends to the signals. Nothing else. The digital signals are powered by a special power module and a separate transformer. So I have power enough but the routes are not all switched when I am looking for other lay outs or other trains in the CS2.
Steamer01
And by the way: also using no boosters at all does not change the problem. I rewired things the other day, using only the CS2 to power all of the layout. The routes-problem still existed. |
Peter |
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Joined: 04/11/2010(UTC) Posts: 191 Location: South Africa.
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Quote:Andreas,
Welcome to the forum.
There maybe an issue with the CS2 and poor or slow feedback polling. This has been mentioned to Marklin. At issue when using the CS2 to run routes, either with a few trains, or many is the operator initiating a manual selection on the CS2 while routes are active. The initiation of a manual selection seems to interrupt the route, causing an item like a turnout or a signal not to operate causing missed commands and trains colliding as a worse case example.
This requires a fix from Marklin. Is your issue solely when routes are running, or when routes are selected and you do a manual intervention?
Can you describe your layout a bit and what you are using for triggers and feedback?
Regards,
Thomas
Good day again, Thanks for your comments. On my layout i have the following Cs 60214 as master and Cs1 60212 as slave (only to control trains) 3 x 60173 + 1 6017 boosters Total of 44 locos on layout, there of 13 running at any given time + 2 shuttle trains. There are 48 routes, these get activated randomly by trains on other routes (points & signals) Some routes have up to 16 points. I have +- 180 solinoid assesories driven by S88, K83 & K84 but mostly build in decoders art # 74460. Activating the routes only by switch track art # 24994 for directional reasons. Every thing runs smoothly if only a few trains and routes are running.(Say half) but as more trains start up then chaos.Some routes work better than others. Should there by a momentry short due to a derailment then nothing (no routes) work any more. My problem starts randomly without any intervention of any kind to the cs. Thanks again. Andreas Edited by moderator 07 November 2010 05:54:26(UTC)
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Pure Marklin - Steam is my Passion |
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Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,689 Location: United Kingdom
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Hi Andreas, Welcome to the forum. |
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand
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Bigdaddynz wrote:My CS2 with update 1.4.0 and GFP 1.35 will not communicate with any of my K83's. It still seems to communicate OK with turnouts that have onboard decoders. I think I have got this problem solved. The turnouts that would not work are all connected to a Viessmann 5211 K83. The decoders built into the other turnouts are all Marklin decoders, and they all worked OK. Since the Viessmann 5211 can take a power feed from a separate transformer (I was running them all off the track power) I connected up a transformer to separately power them. This fixed the problem, and all turnouts are now switching reliably from the CS2.
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Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
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Bigdaddynz wrote:Bigdaddynz wrote:My CS2 with update 1.4.0 and GFP 1.35 will not communicate with any of my K83's. It still seems to communicate OK with turnouts that have onboard decoders. I think I have got this problem solved. The turnouts that would not work are all connected to a Viessmann 5211 K83. The decoders built into the other turnouts are all Marklin decoders, and they all worked OK. Since the Viessmann 5211 can take a power feed from a separate transformer (I was running them all off the track power) I connected up a transformer to separately power them. This fixed the problem, and all turnouts are now switching reliably from the CS2. I had a similar problem as David (BDNZ) and the turnouts off the Viessmann 5211 when running on track power would work now and then and very slowly. I was using an ECOS with a Lot more power When I switched to a sepatate power supply all problems went. I had 16 Turnouts off the Viessmann 5211 and 22 Turnouts with in track decoders, a mixture of Marklin and Viessmann. NN |
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around |
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand
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And yet, the CS1 was fine with them! Another plus mark for the CS1.
And I've been playing with the free version of Touchcab on the iPad. Very cool!
I've been using it Touchcab --> CS1 --> CS2 --> Track.
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Joined: 16/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 151 Location: The Netherlands
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nevw wrote:Bigdaddynz wrote:Bigdaddynz wrote:My CS2 with update 1.4.0 and GFP 1.35 will not communicate with any of my K83's. It still seems to communicate OK with turnouts that have onboard decoders. I think I have got this problem solved. The turnouts that would not work are all connected to a Viessmann 5211 K83. The decoders built into the other turnouts are all Marklin decoders, and they all worked OK. Since the Viessmann 5211 can take a power feed from a separate transformer (I was running them all off the track power) I connected up a transformer to separately power them. This fixed the problem, and all turnouts are now switching reliably from the CS2. I had a similar problem as David (BDNZ) and the turnouts off the Viessmann 5211 when running on track power would work now and then and very slowly. I was using an ECOS with a Lot more power When I switched to a sepatate power supply all problems went. I had 16 Turnouts off the Viessmann 5211 and 22 Turnouts with in track decoders, a mixture of Marklin and Viessmann. NN This is not the solution. I have separate power supply for many years. It is a good decoder of Viessmann and separate power supply is a good thing but it doesn't solve the problem of the not always switching routes. Steamer01 |
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand
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Steamer01 wrote:This is not the solution....it doesn't solve the problem of the not always switching routes.
Steamer01 Steamer, read the fine print. I never said this was a fix for the CS2 routing issue. I mentioned in post #11 that I was having trouble getting some solenoid devices to reliably switch. Since I mentioned the problem in the first place, I felt obliged to post my solution for the problem. It has already been mentioned in this thread that the fix for the CS2 routing problem will be in a future CS2 software update from Marklin.
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Joined: 21/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 206 Location: Netherlands
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I updated the GFP to version 1.36 today, hoping it might do some good to the routes-problem. But it does not. I guess we will have to wait for the next CS2 update 1.5. |
Peter |
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Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
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Pavle wrote:I updated the GFP to version 1.36 today, hoping it might do some good to the routes-problem. But it does not. I guess we will have to wait for the next CS2 update 1.5. Or maybe Update Ver 5.9 |
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around |
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