there goes the wallet! Won't be ordered from Suter though- still haven't got the fake crocodile caper resolved

There is no IC "Riviera dei Fiori" SBB/FS Set from Märklin. Märklin announced and delivered the set #43670 as Ep.V "Eurocity Express Train Passenger Car Set"; exclusive consisting of SBB coaches. Only combining coaches from two sets allows it to be run as the corresponding IC (Apm, Apm Pano, 6xBpm) at some time.

www.maerklin.com/en (original) states:

"EuroCity Express Train Passenger Car Set.
H0 - Article-No. 43670 EuroCity Express Train Passenger Car Set.
Gauge: H0 Era: V

Prototype: 6 different Swiss Federal Railways (SBB/CFF/FFS) EuroCity express train passenger cars of different car types. 1 type Apm EuroCity open seating car, 1st class, 1 type Apm EuroCity panorama car, 1st class, 1 Mark IV type WRm dining car, 3 type Bpm EuroCity open seating car, 2nd class. Train name "Riviera dei Fiori". Train route Nice - Basle SBB. The cars look as they did about 2004.

Model: The cars have adjustable buffers. The cars are ready for installation of a current-conducting car connection, either the plug-in 7319 close coupling drawbar or the 72020/72021 close coupler that can be uncoupled. The dining car has a pantograph that can be used to supply power for lighting. Total Length over the buffers 161.0 cm / 63-3/8". DC wheel set for each car 4 x 700580.

Highlights:

* Train name "Riviera dei Fiori".
* Train route "Nice-Ventimiglia-Genoa PP-Milan C-Como-Chiasso-Lugano-Bellinzona-Arth-Goldau-Lucerne-Olten-Basle SBB".

One-time series."

Nothing was announced anywhere by Märklin regarding IC or FS coaches for this set.

And even on the set box.


YES!!!


Nothing new (at least not for me, others and surely as well not for Märklin). You just didn't get it yet - this set has been announced intentionally as Eurocity set and even indicating the coaches within the set description correctly as EC coaches. The fact that the train with this name was operated just as IC (operating times needed? ) for known reasons doesn't change anything to Märklin's intend in their creation of a set similar to #4367 in order not just to have restricted use for this single train, but primarily for use of many other EC compositions running with these SBB coaches; as desired by any user.

Since I have -intentionally- two of those nice sets, I can easily compose a complete "Riviera dei Fiori" composition as it ran in the period designated by Märklin and thus most prototypically.
However, nothing will me or others restrict to use these sets or just some of its coaches for any other EC, SBB IR or even today's ICE substitution trains between Stuttgart and Zürich.


There was never any "IC" label on that train, not even on the model coaches. The only indication to an IC was provided by the train schedules.

"EC Riviera dei Fiori"

Märklin Apm-Bpm route label

If you have any problems with that, maybe you should take it up with Märklin.

My intent was to provide information about the availability of the Maerklin set as well as some information about the prototype that it was based on. The coaches are known as EC or Eurocity coaches as they were ordered with the intent of updating the SBB's fleet, specifically to replace the older 1960s and 1970s UIC coaches (UIC-X, UIC-Z Prototype) in the then newly introduced Eurocity services. Thus, any set containing these coaches could be referred to as a Eurocity Set, regardless of whether the destination signs said IR (Interregio), IC (Intercity) or EC (Eurocity).

Maerklin's correctness in terms of Swiss destination signs and decals is already well known in this forum. Their expertise in this area even extends to German coaches that pass through Switzerland. This can be seen on the destination signs of last year's Trix TEE Roland Set, which included a special route from Basel via Zuerich instead of the regular route to Luzern via Olten. Only the single coach with destination Chur made a stop in Zuerich. It can also be seen in the fantasy labelling of the RABe EC where the 1st class coaches disappeared completely from the trainset.

Thanks for the link to www.3rotaie.it. If you would have read my earlier post, you would have noted that the train was operated as an EC between Milano Centrale and Nice (Ville). The website that you mention clearly is most concerned with the train as operated on Italian rails. It remains that the train was integrated into the SBB Schedule as an IC during most of it's time of operation.

I ask you again, what is your problem today?

Respectfully,

Mike C

Those who wanted to assemble a SBB Eurocity, Intercity or Interregio train using the modern SBB Eurocity coaches have long had the ability to do so, using either the 4367 Set or the individual 4365, 4368 and 4369 coaches and the 42173 restaurant coach. Additionally, the 4266 Eurofima Am coach as well as the 42163 Bpm and SBB EWIV coaches which were routinely attached as domestic "Kurswagen" on international trains, could be added to the consist. Thus, the 43670 is nothing new, but a set of similar coaches released with the specific destination signs for the "Riviera dei Fiori", which was operated as an "IC" in Switzerland and as an "EC" in Italy and France.

I am not stating that Maerklin's labelling of the set was incorrect. I was only providing additional information about the consist, including which loks would be used to pull the train on the various national sections. I provided information on the equivalent Roco 1/87 models for those who might wish to recreate the train in exact scale, as well as providing some other suggestions, like adding an EC Apm (1st class) in the Cisalpino livery from the 26544 Set, which was also common between 2004 and today.

Regarding the link to the Italian forum, I have been long aware of that site. It's information is good but no better than any other site for information.

For once and for all, I have no problem with Maerklin. I may have an issue from time to time with certain models. AFAIK the only daily problem that I seem to be having is with one specific member, who likes to spout off in every topic that I post.

Respectfully

Mike C

All these coaches are knowingly no longer produced; the predecessor of this new set even since more than 15 years - actually the reason why this new set was created, including an update to the appearance of these coaches. It should therefor attract many Märklin fans who are looking TODAY for such a new set/coaches.

Those actually comparing the old coaches with this set should/will also realize the differences and can therefor be assumed to better know what they're talking about.


Yes, nothing new. Situation for those is the same as above - no longer in production except EW-IV coach #42162.


Maybe just for those who haven't seen this set personally (see above) .

PS: We're here to discuss (Märklin) model train stuff.

Edited by user 18 August 2010 00:07:22(UTC)  | Reason: Abusive hint about other person removed - Much to common with this user and next time will give susp

First of all, this is not the thread of user "mike c" - it is just one thread of this forum like any other (only with that person "accidentially" being the creator).

Second, doubtless there are many other people who are quite more familiar with both the prototype and the model of this Märklin train composition - those who have experienced either one or both live in operation and thus don't need to rely upon second sources. It is not only their right, but also "privilege" to comment on misleading or incorrect information which is clearly different from their own knowledge (needless to say that personal attacks/bashing also influences willingness of sharing).

In order to understand the different prototype train classifications as well as the coach composition of the train "Riviera dei Fiori" it is mandatory to specify as well the corresponding operating period. In conjunction with the Märklin set it is 2004 (even extending up to at least 2005).

There is for example a major difference between this "Riviera dei Fiori" train here and the prototype train with the same name at the time when it operated as reflected adequately by the Märklin set (even the inclusion of the - actually very nice - dining coach matches the composition at that time). For discussions of such 87:1 topics IMHO the "prototype" section would likely be more/most adequate.

It sounds quite "funny" if one and the same person calls this Märklin EC coach set (not the prototype train) in one place of this forum an IC and in another one an EC, even "translates" the trainset announcement of both the referring dealer and Märklin to his own wishful thinking (might have been one of the reasons why the link which I made to the helpful Italian website for Märklin train fans was not mentioned before).

All forum readers interested in this trainset can look excited forward in getting it from their favorite dealer; they should not be dissatisfied; all coaches are surely different from those mentioned older ones (there is even one typical Märklin "Schmankerl" within the set, but I'll leave that finding up to everyone her/himself).

Since it's no real quiz, neither for the owners of this nice set nor any others interested in getting their set, I intentionally mentioned it still here.

Anyone interested in a quiz is surely welcome to open a thread there.

Sadly agree with everything you said, Dave..
Sadly, it may also the intention of the one of the parties to cause such "disruptions" to make the threads unreadable.

The elephant in the room...?
Why do only Mike C's threads have to endure these senseless back-and-forth arguments?

Other members have been able to post critical threads of Marklin with little or no disruptions like the ones here - there are normal disagreements, of course, but this is different - those are generally resolved very politely in this forum (we agree to disagree).

There are unhealthy issues here that I think need urgent attention.

Hi Brian. I also like Swiss stuff but no little about the prototype and Mike is great in that respect but reading the above is just confusing and to me useless.

dave

I mean it Lutz.
Everytime Mike posts something, you "jump down his throat".
That is such a shame as you manage to ruin a thread with your snide remarks.
And that turns the likes of me off - and I don't buy the article in question!

Well, there is no real competition there!






I very much doubt it!


However, since this thread no longer seems to be about the '43670 SBB/FS IC Riviera dei Fiori', I'm reluctantly locking it.


Lutz, you would do well to take notice of the opinions about you here, and change your forum behaviour. I know the moderators have almost had enough of having to deal with your nonsense. And as Juhan said to you recently...."Basta!"