 Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,689 Location: United Kingdom
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Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
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Joined: 29/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: Netherlands
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Cewl...now I can be well prepared when my updated CS arrives (before X-mas) |
Mosty era III DB. |
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Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,165
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Finally....  |
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb] |
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 Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 5,382 Location: Akershus, Norway
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Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by steventrain
Please note it came with Germany page 1-23 and english Page 24-44. Seems to make sense since it clearly says now "D" and "GB"; the previous single German version contained 24 pages, with pg. 24 being just the FCC compliance statement and the document ID. (same part number, just dated 05/2007). So, now we can finally talk "technical English" here!!! Where are your questions? 
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Joined: 22/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,836
Location: Trumbull, CT
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Thanks for this information Steven! You would think that our local dealer who I purchased the Cnetral station from would tell me about the English version.
Its great to have such a good group of Marklin friends. |
Stephen(USA)
ETE,NMRA,MEA |
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 Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA
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I note that in section 9 that it says that a rocker insulator must be installed between power circuits. M track users, I may be able to help if you can not find them. I can't supply the world but I can Help a few. ejoerg@comcast.netEric
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Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
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Well,
as sudibarba noted, due to this description these awful rocker insulators are required unconditionally when using boosters. Does this mean that the editor is so short sighted that he/she has not taken the new boosters into account, or that there will be no new boosters, or that also these will need rocker isolators?
Other peculiarities are:
- why do they still courage using 24088 for connection; normally several power feeds are needed anyway and branching is easier without it. And they risk that someone puts in the transformer cable in it; warnings in manuals are poor protections.
- I still don't understand the meaning of this adapter cable when running the Mobile Station as throttle. The female socket could as well have been of the right kind from start. Current design does not prohibit errors, not even if throttles will be available in the future either.
- I note that the bus may not be physically branched.
- They keep 3 sockets for Mobile Station, and "encourage" the use of it saying that no damage will be caused using it, except possibly violating EMV-tests.
- Why is it so important that 3-4 aspect signals/turnout should be connected to the same decoder? My theory is that the CS does not properly shut off the decoder of the first adress; if one decoder is used it's OK to send the first command, then the second, then shut off. Strange that they still have such a bug.
So still IMHO,
a major step for mankind - back.
/Lars
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Joined: 29/12/2006(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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Hi all
Can any of you Boffins tel me wat a rocker insulator is, and what is it's function.
Regards Jannie.
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Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
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AKA ski lifter, inserted at the point of isolation. When current pickup shoe (slider/ski) reaches that point, the forward part of it is lifted to pass over, hence no contact with the new track. If there is enough speed :-( the slider proceeds and tilts over, so that only the forward part gets contact, and now with the new power district/track. In that way it's assured that the slider does not cause short circuit between the two power districts. Normal isolation is needed as well.
My distaste is caused mainly of the fact that in slow speed it's normal that the train stops with the whole slider lifted.
/Lars
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Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
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<br /> Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Lars Westerlind
<br />Well,
as sudibarba noted, due to this description these awful rocker insulators are required unconditionally when using boosters. Does this mean that the editor is so short sighted that he/she has not taken the new boosters into account, or that there will be no new boosters, or that also these will need rocker isolators? Hi Lars, this notice is for protection reasons as a 100% equal power balance accross all distributed booster circuits cannot be guaranteed - it is load dependent. It also has to work when still using older boosters (i.e. 6015/6017). Even if you have only a small voltage difference between two booster circuits and you bridge them for some time with a slider it may cause problems. The rockers (should) avoid these. Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Other peculiarities are:
- why do they still courage using 24088 for connection They offer both - a) using connector box (for "plug and play") and b) direct connection (for example for larger layouts). Please see 2.2.3. (pg.25 bottom and pg.26 top). Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:- I still don't understand the meaning of this adapter cable when running the Mobile Station as throttle. The female socket could as well have been of the right kind from start. Current design does not prohibit errors, not even if throttles will be available in the future either. I think this has been discussed lenghty (enough) in previous threads. Instead of leaving the MS booster power output open at the 2nd connector of the box and the three CS connectors, they decided to choose the adapter cable to eliminate the booster power instead. The ECoS MS connectors are no different, so it doesn't look like a "design by accident". Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:- I note that the bus may not be physically branched. Not yet. It might be offered at some time in the future. The ECoSlink in the architecture diagram of ESU shows this already; however, until now IMHO no devices (like the Märklin #60125 Terminal) have been specified. Until now I can for example live very well with the terminal and extension cables for my layout (I might publish its digital architecture some day). Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:- They keep 3 sockets for Mobile Station, and "encourage" the use of it saying that no damage will be caused using it, except possibly violating EMV-tests. You can use these ports, but they are not "EMV guaranteed". The ECoS offers the same functionality and it works there as well. Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:- Why is it so important that 3-4 aspect signals/turnout should be connected to the same decoder? Should they really? If I connect one of my 3-way signals #7241 with red/green to the last output of one decoder (with address set to 1-4) and (red/)orange to the first output of the next decoder (address 5-8) this works perfect. The only condition is that they use consecutive addresses (see also handbook section 4.3 pg. 37 top).
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Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
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Thanks for polite reply, Lutz!
About 3-4 aspect wirinng, I was referring to the 10.6 and 10.7 notes.
"Die beiden einzeldecoder müssen die gleiche Grunddekoderadresse besitzen". "Müssen" means "must", doesn't it? Might be that it works in other ways, but I wondered why Märklin should say like this? To say that it's because of better overview clearly is rubbish.
Kind regards,
Lars
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 Joined: 16/04/2006(UTC) Posts: 117 Location: Netherlands
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by sudibarba<br />I note that in section 9 that it says that a rocker insulator must be installed between power circuits. M track users, I may be able to help if you can not find them. I can't supply the world but I can Help a few. ejoerg@comcast.netEric Hi to all, I read the new manual and as far as I understand a rocker insulator is only required between the power section of the CS and the power sections with boosters. Between booster sections only a mid-rail isolation should suffice. So when I decide to switch to a CS at least in my setup I can avoid these dreadfull rockers. At the moment my layout is powered with 6021 for digital switching only while the tracks are powered by 2 boosters. |
Regards,
Jos |
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Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
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Yes,
rocker insulators were only required between analog and digital sections in the 6021/6015/6017/Delta days. The basics of electricity has not changed, so what Märklin and Lutz tells is that the new power stages are more sensitive to back currents.
In fact your idea is my prefered, Jos. Only drawback is that a mfx lock must be placed on a "programming track" powered directly from the CS to be activated, and then can be used freely on the main track. It sounds absurd, and I tend to think it is, but if you don't like the rocker insulators, and do want a CS, it's the way to go.
/Lars
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Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Lars Westerlind
<br />Thanks for polite reply, Lutz!
About 3-4 aspect wirinng, I was referring to the 10.6 and 10.7 notes.
"Die beiden einzeldecoder m�ssen die gleiche Grunddekoderadresse besitzen". "M�ssen" means "must", doesn't it? Might be that it works in other ways, but I wondered why M�rklin should say like this? To say that it's because of better overview clearly is rubbish.
Kind regards,
Lars
Hi Lars, thanks for your reply. 10.6 is IMHO just a recommendation; if you decide to do it different - no problem. I must admit: in history long, long time ago when I was still controlling my switches solely with keyboards #7072, I used to connect my 3-way signals and switches as well to only one keyboard. It was just a habit, likely due to a better overview and I knew that it basically didn't matter where I connected my nice little banana plugs. For 10.7: those two single switch decoders #6073 and #74460 have a different addressing scheme than the k83/k84's.
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Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by graafjp<br /> Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by sudibarba<br />I note that in section 9 that it says that a rocker insulator must be installed between power circuits. M track users, I may be able to help if you can not find them. I can't supply the world but I can Help a few. ejoerg@comcast.netEric Hi to all, I read the new manual and as far as I understand a rocker insulator is only required between the power section of the CS and the power sections with boosters. Between booster sections only a mid-rail isolation should suffice. So when I decide to switch to a CS at least in my setup I can avoid these dreadfull rockers. At the moment my layout is powered with 6021 for digital switching only while the tracks are powered by 2 boosters. Hmmm, I read it that you need rockers between any separate power circuit wheather or not it is a CS circuit to booster circuit or a booster circuit to booster circuit. I don't know, but this seems to be what Lutz is saying previously. Eric
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Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA
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I will send an email to Dr. Tom Catherall At tom@ marklinmarklin.com.
He is our USA representative for all things digital and see what he says.
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Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
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Do so, and tell his answers. I see two possibilites:
1. CS and the new booster have technically weaker power stages than 6021/6015/6017.
2. Märklin want to change policity, in order to minimize warranty repairs.
If 1., grafiip has the correct interpretation, even if Märklin don't want to tell that the old equipment is more sturdy.
2. is also possible, it seems likely or at least possible to me that they do get some boosters and 6021 for repair due to destroyed power transistors; in cost reduction times it's better to get the customer to pay, isn't it?
/Lars
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Joined: 16/04/2006(UTC) Posts: 117 Location: Netherlands
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by sudibarba
<br />I will send an email to Dr. Tom Catherall At tom@ marklinmarklin.com.
He is our USA representative for all things digital and see what he says.
Hi subibarba, It's interesting to see what answer you get from Tom Catherall. As I reread the dutch manual I still see that between 60172 booster sections only a mid-rail isolation is needed. So I'm eagerly awaiting the reply from Marklin Usa. It also says to see the installation instructions of the 60172 booster. Let's hope this confirms what is in the CS manual. Unfortunately in the ECOSboost FAQ they mention to use rocker-isolations between two booster sections. [:(!] |
Regards,
Jos |
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 Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,448 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
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re pg27 s88s:
I note the reference to the support of 32 units. On the face of this this implies 512 sensors. However I am aware of non-Marklin units that have only 8 ports rather than 16.
pg34 appears to confirm this with the ability to select 8/16 port modes.
So. Is this an inherited/typo (from ESU and the non-Marklin world)? or does Marklin have a 8 port s88? or has the number of sensors really been increased to 512?
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Peter
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 Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
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NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around |
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Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by sudibarba<br /> Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by graafjp<br /> Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by sudibarba<br />I note that in section 9 that it says that a rocker insulator must be installed between power circuits. M track users, I may be able to help if you can not find them. I can't supply the world but I can Help a few. ejoerg@comcast.netEric Hi to all, I read the new manual and as far as I understand a rocker insulator is only required between the power section of the CS and the power sections with boosters. Between booster sections only a mid-rail isolation should suffice. So when I decide to switch to a CS at least in my setup I can avoid these dreadfull rockers. At the moment my layout is powered with 6021 for digital switching only while the tracks are powered by 2 boosters. Hmmm, I read it that you need rockers between any separate power circuit wheather or not it is a CS circuit to booster circuit or a booster circuit to booster circuit. I don't know, but this seems to be what Lutz is saying previously. Eric I have received no reply yet - I will keep trying. Eric
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Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA
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Tom replied from his Blackberry. Exact quote: "Anytime you have power from different transformers,use rockers".
Eric
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