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MärCo		#101 Posted : 17 July 2006 10:57:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,159 Location: The Netherlands		I bought a black KLVM from a starter set. I really want to see if it is so bad, but I don't think so.
		Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
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laalves		#102 Posted : 17 July 2006 15:09:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,162 Location: Portugal		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br /> It is even further interesting to hear what Märklin is currently doing with some product expansions around the "old" C-Sine. Just wait and see, probably not very long from now (it might be already offical announced during this fall). Regards, Lutz Lutz, I'm still drooling and mumbling on this..... After some thought, are you suggesting, maybe, a reworked turntable for C-track and c-sine motor ? Luis
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jeehring		#103 Posted : 17 July 2006 15:16:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		In the world of industry, you can find a large range of " c-Sine" type motors under the name of " Brushless Motors " ( low tension DC )... Look at this one, south of france nearby Nice( only for model-making - great look- French/English- some motors can be powered with small batteries)) ttp://www.cyclonbrushless.com/francais/findex.htm There are many kinds of brushless motors and different prices too...Prices are above the average (comparing to "normal" can motors average) ( Three phase motors are "brushless" too, but it different technology)
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al_pignolo		#104 Posted : 17 July 2006 17:13:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC) Posts: 904 Location: bologna, BO		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by laalves <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br />So, why don't you just install this motor into your models? Should "not cost more than 5$"! Regards, Lutz PS: The difference between those mentioned CD motors and the C-Sine should be quite apparent - or what would you say if your CD motor constantly changes its rpm? Lutz, actually CD drive main motors do change a lot of rotation regime. There's several routines that a CD drive may go through, changing RPM constantly, and I'm not talking spinning up and down... And the CD drive motors have exactly the same internal looks as a c-sine. Last time I checked, I believe one sample even had the same number of stator windings as of a c-sine. Usually the only visible difference is that CD-drive motors are flatter with a larger diameter, when compared to a c-sine. Luis Luis, you're right! And, if you don't change the RPM with extreme accuracy the CD can't be read. So the speed control is much more important into the CD driver! Lutz, installing a brushless motor (taken from a CD player) into a BR 24 is a project I'm thinking of. The problems are the size of the motor and the electronic driver... so I don't know if I'll can do that, but your idea is not so strange!!! Regards Pietro
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jeehring		#105 Posted : 17 July 2006 18:16:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		reading some specifications at topic" SUPPORT" of the site mentionned above, It seems that the driver must be specificaly programmed...Even power and torque may be modified by this programming..
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laalves		#106 Posted : 17 July 2006 18:40:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,162 Location: Portugal		Hi Pietro, I was thinking about trying that too, but I'm faced with the same difficulty. The CD player's typical motor has its driver imbedded in the same PCB as the rest of the electronics, BUT if one could find out the wiring, maybe we could use a Märklin driver ! Since a typical CD ROM drive can be had for 15 euros, it would be an extremely economical way of remotoring our loks with a very cheap and highly capable motor! Anyone with a CD motor datasheet laying around??? Luis
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Guus		#107 Posted : 17 July 2006 19:11:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Look at this one, south of france nearby Nice( only for model-making - great look- French/English- some motors can be powered with small batteries)) ttp://www.cyclonbrushless.com/francais/findex.htm Thank you Roland,very nice site! There used to be a small Swiss company Rail4you-I'm sure most of you heard of- that made conversion kits with C-sine like motors for Märklin and HAG.They also made their own driver. Looked very promissing,but regretably the firm went broke. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:originally posted by Luis: Anyone with a CD motor datasheet laying around??? Haven't looked myself yet,but doesn't Maxxon have one? Kind regards Guus
		Kind regards, Guus
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Hemmerich		#108 Posted : 18 July 2006 20:48:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Guus, group, Yes, unfortately Mr. Iten had to file his company "Konkurs" a few months ago. He tries now to recover with some other offerings. His webpage is still public. http://www.rail4you.ch/ Maxon has a dedicated product line called "EC" for brushless motors. Regards, Lutz
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steventrain		#109 Posted : 19 July 2006 00:19:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,705 Location: United Kingdom		Hi Hemmerich, Nice to see your face with german flag.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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john black		#110 Posted : 19 July 2006 01:15:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by steventrain <br />Hi Hemmerich, Nice to see your face with german flag Yeah. Available on stamps, soon
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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laalves		#111 Posted : 19 July 2006 01:22:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,162 Location: Portugal		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by john black <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by steventrain <br />Hi Hemmerich, Nice to see your face with german flag Yeah. Available on stamps, soon This summer, on a theatre near you, featuring Dolby Surround: "Lutz on the flag" Luis PS: This is the second time in a row that I laugh to the tears thanks to you, steventrain !
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john black		#112 Posted : 19 July 2006 01:30:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Hold it, Luis ... ... Can't stand it, anymore ...
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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laalves		#113 Posted : 19 July 2006 01:34:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,162 Location: Portugal		John, I can't take it! Stop this man, please!
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john black		#114 Posted : 19 July 2006 01:46:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		... Impossible ... have you ever tried to stop Superman ? ...
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Hemmerich		#115 Posted : 19 July 2006 01:51:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Thanks alot guys - your crying tears saved me spending at least one cbm of expensive water for my garden today!!! PS: Honestly, I only inserted my pic into the flag to adjust the mismatching size shape (vertical vs. horizontal) - but given the great fun we all had with our visitors from all over the world during the "FIFA WM", even the German flag is no longer a "hidden item" in our country nowadays - so I just concluded - why should I hide it then from you?.
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alonso231gery		#116 Posted : 19 July 2006 01:58:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,959 Location: Hellas (Athens)		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by john black <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by steventrain <br />Hi Hemmerich, Nice to see your face with german flag Yeah. Available on stamps, soon P.s Why it was hidden?
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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Rowan		#117 Posted : 19 July 2006 11:13:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,278 Location: Brisbane, Queensland		How many stamps do you need to trade/barter a 2200?[:I]
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Guus		#118 Posted : 19 July 2006 17:51:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Hi Lutz,hi all, I think that's a nice idea to show a photo of yourself instead of an avatar. Guus P.S.:as a side note,I was unable to access the site for a while this morning. After checking with John it appeared it wasn't my browser settings(thanks John). Must be the heat wave that's making the computers sluggish too.
		Kind regards, Guus
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steventrain		#119 Posted : 19 July 2006 18:51:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,705 Location: United Kingdom		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Rowan <br />How many stamps do you need to trade/barter a 2200?[:I] Or a million?
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Vardex		#120 Posted : 20 July 2006 00:10:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 404 Location: vlaardingen,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Guus <br />Hi Lutz,hi all, I think that's a nice idea to show a photo of yourself instead of an avatar. Guus After having seen a photo of me you will see this won't be a good idea![:o)] Bart
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rschaffr		#121 Posted : 20 July 2006 00:21:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,193 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		That is the way Stummi's is. Actually, my 103 is MUCH better looking!
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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Vardex		#122 Posted : 20 July 2006 00:30:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 404 Location: vlaardingen,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:[i] Actually, my 103 is MUCH better looking! I agree,at first I thought it was real! Bart
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Gert-Jan		#123 Posted : 20 July 2006 14:38:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/04/2005(UTC) Posts: 777 Location: Netherlands		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hxmiesa <br />I wonder if I can install a NINCO EXTREME-3 motor in that chassis? ;-) Yeah, C-sine is for 'woosies'...every M* lok an EXTREME-3 engine! Are you promoting the Spanish economy here, Henrik?
		Mosty era III DB.
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hxmiesa		#124 Posted : 20 July 2006 15:15:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,601 Location: Spain		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Gert-Jan Yeah, C-sine is for 'woosies'...every M* lok an EXTREME-3 engine! Are you promoting the Spanish economy here, Henrik? Ninco, Fly and Scalextric (SCX-brand outside of Spain) are very nice spanish products, and deserves to do well. I dont know, however, how much of this stuff is actually made HERE or in China??? I beleive that Electrotren (very nice products also) is now no longer produced here, after the Hornby takeover. (Is it really true that Hornby paid more for Electrotren, than Kingsbridge did for Märklin? ;-) Other nice Spanish products are wines from La Rioja! Recommended! ;-) Goat and sheep cheeses and of course the famous JAMON (ham)!!! And... Not only SEAT cars are made here. In Spain they produce for ALL the brands. A Mercedes van is produced less than 100km from where I work...
		Best regards Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain") http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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jeehring		#125 Posted : 21 July 2006 15:46:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		I have read somewhere that Hornby has bought Electrotren for about 7 or 8 million Euro( I remember it was approximately the same amount for Lima & Electrotren) AT this time all Electrotren production was already transfered in China. For LIMA group they have spent 8 millons E too. But LIMA group = 4 brands ( Lima-Rivarrossi-Jouef-Arnold) At this time Hornby had a 40 million E turnover( approximately). With 5 brands more, their goal was to reach 80 millions within few years...
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Transfesa		#126 Posted : 21 July 2006 16:19:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 140 Location: Madrid, Madrid		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hxmiesa <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Gert-Jan Yeah, C-sine is for 'woosies'...every M* lok an EXTREME-3 engine! Are you promoting the Spanish economy here, Henrik? Ninco, Fly and Scalextric (SCX-brand outside of Spain) are very nice spanish products, and deserves to do well. I dont know, however, how much of this stuff is actually made HERE or in China??? I beleive that Electrotren (very nice products also) is now no longer produced here, after the Hornby takeover. (Is it really true that Hornby paid more for Electrotren, than Kingsbridge did for Märklin? ;-) Other nice Spanish products are wines from La Rioja! Recommended! ;-) Goat and sheep cheeses and of course the famous JAMON (ham)!!! And... Not only SEAT cars are made here. In Spain they produce for ALL the brands. A Mercedes van is produced less than 100km from where I work... Dear Henrik, Thank you so much for your recommendations, looks like Spanish Commerce Office should employ you as International Relations Chief Manager Here in Spain there has been some notorious industries since many years ago. It's a pitty that Electrotren was finally sold, but I hope they just keep their great detailing and strongness. I still have a 25-year old Renfe 333 (now digitized) and it runs softly with a great pulling power, with some goods wagons behind it (most of them from Transfesa ). Kind regards.
		Julio Castillo Madrid, Spain
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jeehring		#127 Posted : 21 July 2006 16:50:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Guus <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Look at this one, south of france nearby Nice( only for model-making - great look- French/English- some motors can be powered with small batteries)) ttp://www.cyclonbrushless.com/francais/findex.htm Thank you Roland,very nice site! There used to be a small Swiss company Rail4you-I'm sure most of you heard of- that made conversion kits with C-sine like motors for Märklin and HAG.They also made their own driver. Looked very promissing,but regretably the firm went broke. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:originally posted by Luis: Anyone with a CD motor datasheet laying around??? Haven't looked myself yet,but doesn't Maxxon have one? Kind regards Guus Thank you Guus. All these 10 or 14 poles brushless motors are designed for model-making. It means Model-making is still alive! Nothing special for trains, but the " Nano cyclone" motor amaze me because of its 17 grammes weight and 50 Watts power, (...17 grammes...that's really nothing!) Laalves: are you sure that old C-sine and New compact C-sine have same power ? I'm not sure at all . IMHO the old C-sine motor is the best .For the future, I do hope that I'll find this motor into many Marklin Loks again! There are plenty of manufacturers making brushless motors.
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jeehring		#128 Posted : 21 July 2006 17:17:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		quote ...(...)...It's a pity that Electrotren was finally sold...(...)... quote Oh yes, I agree with you. I think that It was just an opportunity for the owner Mr Gonzales...
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MärCo		#129 Posted : 27 July 2006 00:05:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,159 Location: The Netherlands		I recieved today the new KLVM black locomotive that is sold with the new starter sets. It is certainly not so bad as suggested over here, but truly it is different than we used to. But certainly not bad at all. — The frame is still from metal. The cilinders are from plastic, and simple to replace. Very handy if a cilinder might be damaged. The locomotive housing can be repaired easy in this way. — The lettering is sharp and from good quality. — The gearing is from metal. Märklin did not make the mistake to replace the gearing by plastic. — The motor is strong and silent. In case of problems the motor can be removed by two clips, and thus easy be replaced by a new one. A solution I saw earlier by Roco and hoped Märklin would do it one day. And they did. The motor even has a solid flywheel. Not often see in a cheap locomotive. — The gearing hous is enclosed, so you have less problems in a dusty enviroment. — Placing the motor in the middle makes the locomotive drives much better. I did not like the old model with the motor on the end. It had the tendency to lift up the front wheels. — It has NEM coupling. So you can place a coupling you like. — It also drives very good slowly. All in all I think it is better than the old model. Before you have more critical comments, please give the new locomotives a change, and see for yourself.
		Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
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perz		#130 Posted : 27 July 2006 00:58:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:All in all I think it is better than the old model. Before you have more critical comments, please give the new locomotives a change, and see for yourself. But the main critical comments have been about the assumed low durability. The one thing we can't test easily.
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MärCo		#131 Posted : 27 July 2006 01:12:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,159 Location: The Netherlands		I think that is good. Märklin did make a serie 3000 with plastic gearing, and that was a disaster. They soon got back to metal gearing. This locomotive has also metal gearing, so that problem is avoided. I have faith in this motor. It is almost entire closed, and thus not sensitive for dust. Certainly with the old open motors that was oft a problem. Argh, buy one before you give comments !
		Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
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MärCo		#132 Posted : 27 July 2006 01:13:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,159 Location: The Netherlands		P.s.: I started with a 3090 on a carpet, I know what I am talking about.
		Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
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rschaffr		#133 Posted : 27 July 2006 01:22:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,193 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		I like your comment about the inclosed gear train. Glad to hear you are happy with it.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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perz		#134 Posted : 27 July 2006 03:22:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Argh, buy one before you give comments ! Even if I buy one, I couldn't tell if it's durable or not. Not without running it for a couple of years. The same thing applies to all new designs actually. We don't know if the new C-sine is durable either. However, some early comments indicated that some people had some specific knowledge about this specific motor from other applications. Is that true or not? If it's true that it is the same motor, their comments are alarming. If it's not true, then we can only wait and see.
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viragoLDR		#135 Posted : 27 July 2006 13:01:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC) Posts: 703 Location: ,		The whole durability things applies to everything. If you never buy anything because you don't know whether or not it's durable, you'll at least have a lot of space.. Oh, no, wait, you wouldn't buy a house, it might fall apart in 5 years from now, you never know ;) With care and regular maintenance, durability increases. Try buying a car and never have a check up, or never have the oil filter changed, or the tires, or brakes. Durability will go right down the drain.
		- Martijn (early planning : H0-scale Era I K.Bay.sts.b) (active planning : N-scale mixed late Era Japanese) (possibly something Z-scale as well ;))
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hxmiesa		#136 Posted : 27 July 2006 14:31:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,601 Location: Spain		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by viragoLDR With care and regular maintenance, durability increases. Try buying a car and never have a check up, or never have the oil filter changed, or the tires, or brakes. Durability will go right down the drain. Come now... That is stretching the comparrison, no? ;-) How about this; Take two identical cars. Service them regularly at their scheduled maintenance intervals, BUT CHANGE ONE OF THE GEARBOXES TO A PLASTIC ONE! Point in case: I think, that even with regular care and maintanence, the one with the plastic gearbox will not last the longest... Now, it might last long enough, but if YOU have the choice, and price is the same, which one would YOU buy? ;-)
		Best regards Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain") http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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xxup		#137 Posted : 27 July 2006 14:37:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,612 Location: Australia		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hxmiesa <br />BUT CHANGE ONE OF THE GEARBOXES TO A PLASTIC ONE! Now, it might last long enough, but if YOU have the choice, and price is the same, which one would YOU buy? ;-) Well to be honest - I would buy the plastic one if I were racing a car as the weight advantage would be enormous!!! [:I][:I] It only has to last one race! [:0]
		Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com
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viragoLDR		#138 Posted : 27 July 2006 15:14:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC) Posts: 703 Location: ,		Henrik, that point is moot, since the gearbox in the loco in question is not of plastic according to Märco. Also, don't underestimate the strength of high quality plastic.
		- Martijn (early planning : H0-scale Era I K.Bay.sts.b) (active planning : N-scale mixed late Era Japanese) (possibly something Z-scale as well ;))
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hxmiesa		#139 Posted : 27 July 2006 17:40:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,601 Location: Spain		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by viragoLDR <br />Henrik, that point is moot, since the gearbox in the loco in question is not of plastic according to Märco. Also, don't underestimate the strength of high quality plastic. It´s not any more moot than comparing Märklin locos to cars in the first place. And it WAS MärCo who mentioned a 3000 with a plastic gear. And I am NOT underestimating plastics. Actually I´m a diploma engineer (mecanical) specialized IN plastics! ;-))) (Now, dont expect me to elaborate further on the physics of plastics. Havent used that knowledge since I graduated... BUT... for a "cheap" toy-piece you would probably just use PA which would last only a fraction of a second in a car. For a car you would probably use a very special compounded material with glass-fibres. PC, POM or something more exotic and modern I havent even heard of yet... HAHA) Ha' det! Ha' det!
		Best regards Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain") http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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hxmiesa		#140 Posted : 27 July 2006 17:42:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,601 Location: Spain		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by xxup Well to be honest - I would buy the plastic one if I were racing a car as the weight advantage would be enormous!!! [:I][:I] It only has to last one race! [:0] Well, hardly a problem having to service it every 20.000 km then?! ;-) I understand they have a better chance with ceramic based materials anyway...
		Best regards Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain") http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Zora la rousse		#141 Posted : 30 July 2006 14:50:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/10/2005(UTC) Posts: 856 Location: ,		What a technical speach . Has anybody experience with the new locomotive ?
		You are never too late to become a Märklin fan.
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Hoffmann		#142 Posted : 30 July 2006 18:50:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,106 Location: Guelph, Ontario		Hello Zora , Having just recieved 18 of these Locomotives and tested them all I must say that for the Price,Quality and smooth running these Locomotives are a real bargain and should put Marklin Products back were they belong [ Number one in Value/Price]. This little locomotive has two Traction Tires, acceleration and braking delay a universal Decoder (no switching of Addresse when running analog or digital) and best of all it comes in a Startset with two Cars a oval of C-Track and a 32VA Transformer for less then CAD$ 150.00. It is Time that we as Consumers look again what we get for the Money we spend instead of being critical of whether a Motor will last for 5 or a 100 Years. P.S. Have you looked lately what you spend on filling your Cars Gastank Martin
		marklin-eh
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rschaffr		#143 Posted : 30 July 2006 19:09:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,193 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hoffmann <br /> ... It is Time that we as Consumers look again what we get for the Money we spend instead of being critical of whether a Motor will last for 5 or a 100 Years. Martin: Perhaps you are right in a short term view, but the Marklin name has always meant that it will last for 100 years. That is one of the things that attacted me to Marklin in the first place, and if they are going to become another maker of discardable toys, perhaps I should look for another hobby.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
		WWW
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Hoffmann		#144 Posted : 30 July 2006 19:28:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,106 Location: Guelph, Ontario		Hello Ron, This Locomotive is of the same Quality as the Locomotive Marklin produced 50 Years ago ( I am talking of the same type of Locomotive ). Should one need to replace the Motor in this Locomotive it would probably cost no more the replacing a Armature and brushes for the earlier Models of this Locomotive. The point I was trying to make is that we ( this includes me )are trying to analize everything Marklin makes now because of the failures in the past two Years of Marklin Products ( see Henschel-Wegmann and others ). This little Locomotive is surley no Junk as far as I am concerned. Martin
		marklin-eh
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rschaffr		#145 Posted : 30 July 2006 19:36:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,193 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Martin: I amended my junk comment..it was too extreme. I think I said near the top of this thread that I can understand Marklin selling toy quality products but I would expect them to be distinguished from the model quality somehow. I realize that the 36xxx series is the lower cost items, but they are even rugged and reliable, just not as finely detailed. My ire is at the Thomas set. I should have guessed that it was just a rebranded item and was essentially the same as the Bachmann one I could buy here, but I was blinded by the name..I ordered the Marklin one from Germany and paid a lot more for the same thing because it was Marklin, and I expected that to mean something. I was dissillusioned. The ONLY advantage is that I can run it on my layout (we've done that once.)
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
		WWW
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MärCo		#146 Posted : 30 July 2006 19:41:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,159 Location: The Netherlands		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr <br />Martin: Perhaps you are right in a short term view, but the Marklin name has always meant that it will last for 100 years. That is one of the things that attacted me to Marklin in the first place, and if they are going to become another maker of discardable toys, perhaps I should look for another hobby. If you want something to last 100 years, buy a diamond ring. That is a better investment. I have been shunting all weekend with the little KLVM locomotive. And it does this perfectly. The inside of the new KLVM locomotive —&gt; The frame is still all metal, the housing is of plastic. That is the same like the older version. A picture of the gearing, as you can see it is made from metal —&gt; Unlike the older version of the KLVM locomotive, the housing of the gearing is enclosed. In my opinion a good measure against dust. Also note that the electric motor is build in the middle of the frame. This gives good driving capabilities.
		Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
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rschaffr		#147 Posted : 30 July 2006 19:51:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,193 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MärCo If you want something to last 100 years, buy a diamond ring. That is a better investment. So you are willing to accept a pardigm shift from Marklin being the top quality items that will last a lifetime, then? That is what the name used to mean. Marklin WAS the diamond ring of model trains. I guess that era has gone the way of the Geprüft tag. It is a shame. On the other hand, they have brought out some stars recently.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
		WWW
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MärCo		#148 Posted : 30 July 2006 20:06:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,159 Location: The Netherlands		Well, I am in favour of the current swift of Märklin. I always bought Märklin to play with, and in my opinion it is nothing else. Märklin made many model trains over the past time, and only a few lasted 50 years, let alone 100 years. Many boys and men enjoyed playing with them, and like all toys it will be beyond repair sooner or later. In my vision a model train is to play with and enjoy, and it is no investment. There are better things to invest into.
		Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
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Bill Marklin		#149 Posted : 30 July 2006 22:13:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/05/2005(UTC) Posts: 46 Location: ,		Hallo Marco, thanks for the great pictures! At last someone who shows what this topic is about. And now the BR81 Greetings Bill
		K-Rail layout wth DC, Delta Control and C-rail layout with Mobile Station
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