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Davy		#51 Posted : 12 July 2006 17:23:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,915 Location: Netherlands		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by john black <br />Hans Martin and Per: Thanks for your most interesting statements, they bear lots of logic. That single model isn't important at all - but it could be the writing on the wall ... I confess I was shocked deeply when seeing this thing called "motor" the very first time in a Marklin [:0] And it's still hard to believe this shall be a genuine Marklin loco. Since components like Mabucchi motors and worm drives are known all to well here in 2-rail land - they are loud and rough runners, and notorious for breakdowns. John The engine is very quit and still. And very strong also. My little KVLM steamengine drops yesterday from more then one meter one the the floor and there was no damage to the lok what so ever. The loc drives back and forward still perfectly. So it is still Marklin quality.
		M-track with a CS2.
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john black		#52 Posted : 12 July 2006 18:18:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Davy <br />little KVLM steamengine The new digital one ? Got a picture how she looks inside (shell off) ?
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Davy		#53 Posted : 12 July 2006 20:55:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,915 Location: Netherlands		Klik on the link. http://img218.imageshack...3087neuausschnitt4po.jpg
		M-track with a CS2.
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Guus		#54 Posted : 12 July 2006 22:46:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:originally posted by Lutz: Version 1 (low cost models, like this) - inexpensive "off the shelf" DC motors. Version 2 (high value/cost models, like Taurus, V200, etc.) - high performance compact C-Sine motors. In conjunction with these changes, the mechanical design of the corresponding models is also updated for easier manufacturing (less labor cost) and better reuse for possibly planned two-rail versions. Can't see anything wrong with that. I agree with you Lutz. It makes sense. The only thing I'm afraid off is that in the constant quest for cost cutting, well proven qualities of the original products are discarded as old fashioned and just too costly. Cost reduction all too easily affects quality. Just my two pennies worth of opnion [:I] Kind regards Guus
		Kind regards, Guus
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Hemmerich		#55 Posted : 12 July 2006 23:28:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr This type of product will undermine the brand loyalty we have had for Marklin in the past. Just wrong or a "prejudice"! First someone has to test it and then one can judge. I have now all three different motor types of this model (SFCM, DCM, DC) and cannot say that this latest design is any worse than its predecessors; it surely has nothing to do with the Harry Potter stuff (which we all know is Hornby "plastic crap"). Simply by comparing it with the "old" 3032 it runs much smoother, especially due to the new drive construction - including that motor; and yet, still has the same fine Märklin "look and feel" - and needless to say - weight! That motor too has nothing to do with the "junk" that John showed here. Regards, Lutz
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Hemmerich		#56 Posted : 12 July 2006 23:39:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr ...and Marklin can't or won't tell me what the replacement parts are. So I'll tell ya: just order part #323679. Regards, Lutz
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Hemmerich		#57 Posted : 12 July 2006 23:47:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by john black <br />little KVLM steamengine The new digital one ? Got a picture how she looks inside (shell off) ? John, did you already forget what you posted on - 2006/02/28 : 22:27:58 in response to the thread "Another new beauty"? I showed all motor relevant pics already there. Regards, Lutz
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john black		#58 Posted : 13 July 2006 00:58:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br />John, did you already forget what you posted on - 2006/02/28 : 22:27:58 in response to How could we ever forget one of your topics. All remembered. Especially the seconds
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Hemmerich		#59 Posted : 13 July 2006 02:29:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Good to hear! I was already afraid about this famous "Alzheimer" disease coming back. Regards, Lutz
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rschaffr		#60 Posted : 13 July 2006 03:29:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: quote:Originally posted by rschaffr This type of product will undermine the brand loyalty we have had for Marklin in the past. Just wrong or a "prejudice"! First someone has to test it and then one can judge. I have now all three different motor types of this model (SFCM, DCM, DC) and cannot say that this latest design is any worse than its predecessors; it surely has nothing to do with the Harry Potter stuff (which we all know is Hornby "plastic crap"). Simply by comparing it with the "old" 3032 it runs much smoother, especially due to the new drive construction - including that motor; and yet, still has the same fine Märklin "look and feel" - and needless to say - weight! That motor too has nothing to do with the "junk" that John showed here. Regards, Lutz Lutz: I was referring to the Thomas set which I DO own,have tested, and found clearly inferior to the quality I expect from Marklin. That is not prejudice, it is experience. Also thanks for the part number. It is a shame that Marklin cannot respond to such a request. Disregard that...that part says it is for the Harry Potter set. I was referring to the Thomas set.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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MärCo		#61 Posted : 13 July 2006 07:55:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,159 Location: The Netherlands		I like to know if the motor of the Thomas the Tank Engine locomotive or the Harry Potter locomotive is the same as builded in by Hornby. I think only the decoder makes the difference. In such a case, the motor can be ordered by Hornby as well.
		Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
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john black		#62 Posted : 13 July 2006 12:34:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MärCo <br />I like to know if the motor of the Harry Potter locomotive is the same as builded in by Hornby It is, my friend, it is ...
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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laalves		#63 Posted : 13 July 2006 13:41:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,162 Location: Portugal		Piko's steamers are like that too. I can't understand why do they use these horrible motors nowadays, when they can use those (in comparison) much better sealed motors, such as those used used by Märklin that are being discussed here. Luis
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rschaffr		#64 Posted : 13 July 2006 15:56:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		No, the Thomas is an open frame motor. It is at my son's house, so I have to wait until I go over there to get a picture of it.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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john black		#65 Posted : 13 July 2006 16:36:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Ron: My answer relates only to the Harry Potter Steamer: MARKLIN production vs. HORNBY production - on both makes the motor is the same. The Thomas Steamer is your territory Now ya all can see what Granddads are busy with ... [xx(]
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Bill		#66 Posted : 13 July 2006 16:44:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 07/11/2001(UTC) Posts: 256 Location: ,		I skipped the Harry Potter set(although the family is a fan of the movies/books) because it looked too much like the Bachmann set and it seemed they were simply throwing the Marklin logo on a junky set. Marklin does have a certain quality I expect -- but the definition of quality can vary from person to person, hence all the debate. Thr bottom line is Marklin is at an interesting point in their history.
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john black		#67 Posted : 13 July 2006 16:46:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Hopefully not the point of no return ...
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Bill Marklin		#68 Posted : 13 July 2006 17:26:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/05/2005(UTC) Posts: 46 Location: ,		Hi All! Yes, there is no return. Infact it's a turning point The BR81 has a new frame: take a cheap Mubachi or Igarishi motor and a flywheel and a cheap load regulated Zimo (yes)decoder and voila! When you take alook in the Conrad cataloque: you can find and see all the parts. Will it be over the 10 euro? I don't think so. Of course all the hobby lok's will get another frame with a cheap motor. I wonder: is there a 3 pole or 5 pole motor in it? Marklin has to change everything to survive, no matter what. So I think that the old motors will completely disappear in the future. Even the old but steady C-sinus. But the prices stay the same! Greetings from Bill
		K-Rail layout wth DC, Delta Control and C-rail layout with Mobile Station
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Davy		#69 Posted : 13 July 2006 19:52:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,915 Location: Netherlands		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bill Marklin <br />Hi All! Will it be over the 10 euro? I don't think so. Want do you think of a price of almost 38 euro for this engine.
		M-track with a CS2.
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john black		#70 Posted : 13 July 2006 22:32:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bill Marklin <br />the old motors will completely disappear in the future. Even the old but steady C-sinus. Hi Bill - it already happened. When digging through 2006 catalog there's only one model left with the big & heavy C-Sinus: E194 #39223. Not before long this last V8 will be gone, too ... [:(] Have a nice day, John
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Bill		#71 Posted : 14 July 2006 03:37:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 07/11/2001(UTC) Posts: 256 Location: ,		John, That is sad news about the C-sinus. I have not received the 2006 catalog yet (I know -- I am pretty late!) but a few years ago when I discovered Marklin and became a fan (1999) I was captivated by the description and possibilities of the C-sinus motor. It seemed like they had something special in that design. It is almost like I got into Marklin at the wrong time! It is interesting to read about the direction and survival of the company. I just don't want them to be another Bachmann. Some might argue better to survive with the changes than to not survive -- but their name alone evokes quality, but I can't get into Bachmann quality at the Marklin prices. This is not a total slam at Bachmann -- they've improved their product amazingly the past ten years -- I guess I am talking the "Toys R Us" type Bachmann or Lifelike product.
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laalves		#72 Posted : 14 July 2006 03:47:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,162 Location: Portugal		Guys, hang on. The larger c-sine motor is actually a stop gap, while the definitive design is the newer, more compact design. The first design was made with compatibility in mind. That's why you can fit the large c-sine in a lot of older chassis, examples being E103, E94 and many others. The new design is made for new design chassis. There's nothing wrong with it (so far, nobody knows how long will any of them last), it pulls as much as the big one. When comparing my large c-sine BR42 and small c-sine BR 61, I have noted no difference in pulling power. They're just as strong. Luis
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rschaffr		#73 Posted : 14 July 2006 04:51:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		That is good to hear, Luis.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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john black		#74 Posted : 14 July 2006 15:06:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bill <br />1) I was captivated by the description and possibilities of the C-sinus motor. It seemed like they had something special in that design. 2) It is almost like I got into Marklin at the wrong time! 3) It is interesting to read about the direction and survival of the company. I just don't want them to be another Bachmann. Bill, ad 1) You're right - the big & heavy C-Sinus was (and still is) M's very best motor, fitting heavy-metal Electrics like Gators and Crocodiles especially well. A true piece of gold [:p][:p][:p] !!! Luckily I was able to get all three locos from the E94/E194/E1020 C-Sinus series before they were gone ... ad 2) Definitely not. I returned to the hobby 3 years back when my Grandson was born, and never regretted this comeback. Since those are great times for Marklin lovers, with a myriad of excellent models and one very good system - from the beginnings til today ad 3) You're right, again - that's one big danger, now, and that's precisely what M's new owners better take care of. Or they'll loose their customer's money faster than a rollercoaster ... [}:)] For us it's simple like that. As long as they release top quality models in the future - we will buy them, gladly. If quality starts to go down or even vanishs - there are always tons of excellent Marklins from the past at our dealers, ready to go. John
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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john black		#75 Posted : 14 July 2006 15:50:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by laalves <br />When comparing my large c-sine BR42 and small c-sine BR 61, I have noted no difference in pulling power. They're just as strong. I believe in your comparisons, Luis - they are always precise, definitely But when it comes to heavy-metal Gators we get another picture ... I'm sure M had tested their C-Sinus baby motor in lots of locos, and I'm also sure it had failed miserably in the heavy E94 - otherwise their latest Gator Edition were a smooth #39224 (instead of the rough #37224) [}:)][}:)][}:)] Would have been the same as if in the old times M had fitted their E94s with SFCM motors. They never did. Cos heavy locos and pipsqueak motors simply do not go together [xx(] John
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Hemmerich		#76 Posted : 14 July 2006 17:41:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr Lutz: I was referring to the Thomas set which I DO own,have tested, and found clearly inferior to the quality I expect from Marklin. That is not prejudice, it is experience. Also thanks for the part number. It is a shame that Marklin cannot respond to such a request. Disregard that...that part says it is for the Harry Potter set. I was referring to the Thomas set. Ron, what I meant with "prejudice" was related to the new model under discussion here, #36320. This has nothing to do with the Thomas or Harry Potter crap. You should not judge a model if you haven't any own experience with it yet, especially if it is quite different than those being referred; otherwise it might get treated as "dumb talking". Hmm, I got this part number from Märklin (from where else?) being correct for the cars of the Thomas set 29120. Yes, it is also listed as coupling adapter for the cars of the Harry Potter set. When I get to my dealer next time, I'll check this (he has both sets).
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Hemmerich		#77 Posted : 14 July 2006 17:45:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bill Marklin ...and a cheap load regulated Zimo (yes)decoder Maybe it helps if I tell ya that the company Zimo has nothing to do with these decoders; besides that Zimo is an Austrian company whereas this decoder supplier is a German firm, as I mentioned already. Regards, Lutz
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Hemmerich		#78 Posted : 14 July 2006 17:52:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by laalves <br />Guys, hang on. The larger c-sine motor is actually a stop gap, while the definitive design is the newer, more compact design. The first design was made with compatibility in mind. That's why you can fit the large c-sine in a lot of older chassis, examples being E103, E94 and many others. The new design is made for new design chassis. There's nothing wrong with it (so far, nobody knows how long will any of them last), it pulls as much as the big one. When comparing my large c-sine BR42 and small c-sine BR 61, I have noted no difference in pulling power. They're just as strong. Luis It is even further interesting to hear what Märklin is currently doing with some product expansions around the "old" C-Sine. Just wait and see, probably not very long from now (it might be already offical announced during this fall). Regards, Lutz
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laalves		#79 Posted : 14 July 2006 18:02:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,162 Location: Portugal		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by laalves <br />Guys, hang on. The larger c-sine motor is actually a stop gap, while the definitive design is the newer, more compact design. The first design was made with compatibility in mind. That's why you can fit the large c-sine in a lot of older chassis, examples being E103, E94 and many others. The new design is made for new design chassis. There's nothing wrong with it (so far, nobody knows how long will any of them last), it pulls as much as the big one. When comparing my large c-sine BR42 and small c-sine BR 61, I have noted no difference in pulling power. They're just as strong. Luis It is even further interesting to hear what Märklin is currently doing with some product expansions around the "old" C-Sine. Just wait and see, probably not very long from now (it might be already offical announced during this fall). Regards, Lutz Lutz, you're very good at watering our mouths.... Any chance of some unnoficial news ? Luis
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perz		#80 Posted : 15 July 2006 22:00:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich Just wrong or a "prejudice"! If I understand it right, the criticism against the motor in the 36320 from some of the people in this forum stems from the fact that they have found the same motor in other products, and that the motor has worn out rather quickly in these other products. If that's the case, it is definitely not "prejudice" to criticise it. I'm sceptical myself. I cannot say I have seen the exactly same motor but I have seen similar ones and they haven't lasted long. But maybe Märklin buys some "DeLuxe" version?
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Hemmerich		#81 Posted : 16 July 2006 02:05:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		That's what I mean - how can someone judge "fairly" if s/he has not even seen and tested THIS model and motor? (especially if those people come along with a Harry Potter or Thomas model which are completely different than the BR81; also with respect to the motor, gears, etc.). Honestly, I really don't care since I know how both new models run (#36871 and #36320) and can just repeat my previous recommendation - try it out yourselves and make your judgement then. Regards, Lutz
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rschaffr		#82 Posted : 16 July 2006 03:28:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Lutz: The point is that not everyone can afford to buy something to find out if they like it or not. My reference to the Thomas train (I know it is completely different from the BR81) was with respect to expectations. I passed on the Bachmann Thomas set available here and bought the Marklin one because it was Marklin and I expected a better product. I wound up with the same junk only with a pickup shoe on it. I could have bought a set in WalMart for half the price and gotten the same quality. Consequently, I can no longer accept the Marklin name unconditionally as meaning quality and will be skeptical of anything I purchase, except maybe high end loks, in the future.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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dbmike		#83 Posted : 16 July 2006 07:17:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 468 Location: Kokomo, IN		I agree on the aspect that if you base your purchase on marklins past trains, even the ones made in the last few years, and when you get your purchase and its not much better than a bachmann set, then yes I would be unhappy and probaby send it back if possbile. But that is where ebay and train shows will come in, the older marklin trains will always be there, just have to have patience and keep searching, thats the fun of the chase, finding that train you have been looking for. If these cheaper to produce sets keep marklin going, then the more high doller locos they can produce for us more die hard operators and collectors. Even American companys are doing this, John Deere makes the cheaper line for Lowes and Home Depot, most older operators hate them, think they are cheap junk compared to what JD has produced in the past. But they sell them by the boat loads, and this helps keep the company going. This is good as it keeps the parts coming for the older models and the nicer and more expensive stuff on the market as well. Its just the way things are these days. Just my 2 cents Mike
		Due to budget shortfall, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off....mgmt.
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rschaffr		#84 Posted : 16 July 2006 07:59:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Mike: Just grousing. As I said above, I probably would have bought it anyway for my grandson, but at least i would have known what I was getting. I guess I sould have expected it, though. I love Marklin trains, and they have brought out some great models recently. I have the new Scheinenbus and love it (see my review), and just received my new Seetal, which is great. I understand that the GG-1 nd Big Boy are outstanding models. I have no problem with Marklin bringing out a toy line. I just didn't expect it.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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al_pignolo		#85 Posted : 16 July 2006 12:01:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC) Posts: 904 Location: bologna, BO		As someone said, we just should wait to test this motor before judging it... the fact it is a cheap motor does not mean it is surely a bad motor. Even the good C-sine is cheaper than normal 5-star engine... but surely we don't complain about that... I find this new hobby engine could have some advntges: it runs better and it's less... cumbersome. And M should have tested its reliability (I hope!)
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laalves		#86 Posted : 16 July 2006 18:19:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,162 Location: Portugal		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by al_pignolo <br />Even the good C-sine is cheaper than normal 5-star engine... but surely we don't complain about that... Are you sure? That is not the case when looking at Märklin's price list. The older c-sine is only sold as a spare part together with the special decoder and costs 300€....... The new c-sine goes for about 65€, but you have to add the driver board for another 20€. Quite a bit more than the 30€ or so for all the bits that go into a 5-star motor.... Luis
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jeehring		#87 Posted : 16 July 2006 22:20:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		(...)...If Märklin give up the "it-will-work-next-time-too" quality they will be just another toy manufacturer, and that will erode their customer base and destroy the brand name in the long run. So they definitely should care. Even more with the "Hobby" products than with anything else....(...)... quote I totally agree . Thank you Lutz for pictures. But it makes me sad seeing that it is a Marklin lok. The old BR 81 looks much nicer than this one. I have been shocked to see it without the real Heusinger distribution. And what about this motor and toy transmission? So it means that if I need a BR 81 I have to buy a Hobby range Lok. Why don't they create a separate brand , something like "PRIMEX" ? Buying "Marklin" will become less and less clear, I'm afraid... To make my opinion I have to see this model and to know the price... I must admit that Hobby range " Hercules" and "BR 185", are great models.They are great because it is sold less than 100 E...
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jeehring		#88 Posted : 16 July 2006 22:31:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		BTW I don't see any German decoder manufacturer with " Z.... " name....
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laalves		#89 Posted : 16 July 2006 23:25:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,162 Location: Portugal		There's a very easy way to distinguish the modern Hobby lok range: Hobby: 36xxx Normal range: 37xxx and 39xxx. As clear as it gets. Luis
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al_pignolo		#90 Posted : 17 July 2006 00:38:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC) Posts: 904 Location: bologna, BO		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by laalves Are you sure? That is not the case when looking at Märklin's price list. The older c-sine is only sold as a spare part together with the special decoder and costs 300€....... The new c-sine goes for about 65€, but you have to add the driver board for another 20€. Quite a bit more than the 30€ or so for all the bits that go into a 5-star motor.... Luis I don't know exactly the c-sine technology, but the c-sine looks surprisingly similar to the hall-effect motors you can find in every CD driver (CD technology needs a very accurate speed control to work!). Its structure and the working principle are the same. I talked about it to a friend of mine that knows electronics better than me and confirmed my suspicions... If all that is true (I'm not sure!!! [:I][:I][:I] ), it could be that M ask 65€ for a device that does not cost more than 5... but this doesn't surprise me! Obviously this type of motor needs a more complcated driver, but I was talking about the mechanics only... Tomorrow I'll post a picture of some CD driver motors (now I don't find them...) and you'll see they are like twins with the old c-sine... Pietro
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laalves		#91 Posted : 17 July 2006 01:03:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,162 Location: Portugal		Pietro, I have no doubt that 5€ is a more accurate price for a c-sine. And yes, I have a couple of CD drive motors laying around I removed from old CD drives. They also have two more conventional motors inside, one for the drawer movement and the other for lens movement, all of which I preserve for future layout use..... Luis
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Hemmerich		#92 Posted : 17 July 2006 01:46:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		So, why don't you just install this motor into your models? Should "not cost more than 5$"! Regards, Lutz PS: The difference between those mentioned CD motors and the C-Sine should be quite apparent - or what would you say if your CD motor constantly changes its rpm?
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laalves		#93 Posted : 17 July 2006 01:55:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,162 Location: Portugal		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br />So, why don't you just install this motor into your models? Should "not cost more than 5$"! Regards, Lutz PS: The difference between those mentioned CD motors and the C-Sine should be quite apparent - or what would you say if your CD motor constantly changes its rpm? Lutz, actually CD drive main motors do change a lot of rotation regime. There's several routines that a CD drive may go through, changing RPM constantly, and I'm not talking spinning up and down... And the CD drive motors have exactly the same internal looks as a c-sine. Last time I checked, I believe one sample even had the same number of stator windings as of a c-sine. Usually the only visible difference is that CD-drive motors are flatter with a larger diameter, when compared to a c-sine. Luis
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Hemmerich		#94 Posted : 17 July 2006 01:55:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr My reference to the Thomas train (I know it is completely different from the BR81)... If you EVEN KNOW that the BR81 is completely different from the Thomas or Harry Potter trains - because it is still a true Märklin product - why do you bother at all about those two? If you'd know where and for what (high) price the standard Märklin motors are manufactured, even you would agree to change the drive mechanism to this less expensive, yet still very good engineering solution. Completely appropriate for this type of model; especially with respect to its anticipated street price and customer usage. Regards, Lutz
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Vardex		#95 Posted : 17 July 2006 02:29:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 404 Location: vlaardingen,		I would like to know if the new motor still runs after 40 or more years of use,like the old models! And in about ten years or so you won't probably get spare-parts of it anymore. I am sure that the old 3032 will still run after 20 years from now;but I seriously doubt the new model will. So what will become of the good name marklin has right now? As mentioned before it will become just any toy facturer. Marklin should't throw away their good name in this manner. I don't care if a lokomotive is expensive compared to the other competition brands. I rarely see locos of other brands that still run after 40 years of very heavy use as my 3032;wich for sure isn't the only one. Bart
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perz		#96 Posted : 17 July 2006 02:59:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Durability? How about that?
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Vardex		#97 Posted : 17 July 2006 03:24:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 404 Location: vlaardingen,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:[i] If you'd know where and for what (high) price the standard Märklin motors are manufactured, even you would agree to change the drive mechanism to this less expensive, yet still very good engineering solution. Regards, Lutz Lutz,with all respect. I don't care about the costs marklin makes or the difficulties they have if their employees are too expensive. As I customer I can't accept the fact that we are saddled up with "inferior" products.(even if they are cheap) Marklin shouldn't spend it's money redesigning old models,they better can look for a way to produce the old model cheaper. As a customer I would be sure to get the quality I suspect from a brand named marklin. Also it is nice for M if they use only 4 screws or so,but as a customer I want seviceability,and this means I want to screw the parts loose,instead of breaking them apart. Bart
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viragoLDR		#98 Posted : 17 July 2006 03:41:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC) Posts: 703 Location: ,		The way I see it, everything in the world is getting more expensive, but everyone complains about price increases. If Marklin doesn't come up with manufacturing cost cuts, in like 10 years from now regular H0 loco's will cost what Maxi loco's cost now. And no matter what people say now, there's no way they'll be paying those kinda prices for H0.
		- Martijn (early planning : H0-scale Era I K.Bay.sts.b) (active planning : N-scale mixed late Era Japanese) (possibly something Z-scale as well ;))
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rschaffr		#99 Posted : 17 July 2006 04:53:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Lutz: Since you didn't understand my point, I guess you didn't really read my post. I probably should have expected rebranded junk when I ordered the Thomas set, and if I had stopped to think about it, I probably would have figured it out, but my long time expectation of what the Marklin name meant clouded my judgement. Never again will I automatically expect top quality just because the item has the Marklin logo on it.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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john black		#100 Posted : 17 July 2006 10:08:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr <br />Never again will I automatically expect top quality just because the item has the Marklin logo on it Fair right, Ron. Since Thomas and Harry Potter we've to be careful. Those are landmarks [xx(][xx(]
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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