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kpfeifle		#51 Posted : 01 March 2006 15:59:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 32 Location: Long Island, New York		Does HAG only make electric loco's? I don't see any steamers in the lineup.
		Kevin Planning my 4'x 9' Era II/III Layout
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Guus		#52 Posted : 01 March 2006 17:37:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Hi Kevin, Correct.They only make Swiss electric locos. Kind regards Guus
		Kind regards, Guus
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5HorizonsRR		#53 Posted : 01 March 2006 20:09:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		Hi David, I sent you a PM in regards to your Ae 6/6, let me know if you didn't get it. Thanks!
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David Dewar		#54 Posted : 01 March 2006 21:38:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,467 Location: Scotland		Kevin. Only Swiss electric. There range is very small. David
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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David Dewar		#55 Posted : 01 March 2006 21:40:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,467 Location: Scotland		John. Sent you an email direct as did not receive your message. David
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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alonso231gery		#56 Posted : 02 March 2006 01:50:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,959 Location: Hellas (Athens)		I have to admit that my Re 6\6 from the fx Swiss set is one of my best locos... That is because it has a HAG ancestor?
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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Guus		#57 Posted : 02 March 2006 13:09:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: I have to admit that my Re 6\6 from the fx Swiss set is one of my best locos... I suppose you mean the Ae 6/6,which has a CoCo configuration of the bogies, as opposed to the Re 6/6,which has three bogies BoBoBo. http://www.eurolok.ch/ae66.htm http://www.eurolok.ch/re_6_6.htm Regretably Märklin has no Re 6/6 in its product range. Kind regards Guus
		Kind regards, Guus
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alonso231gery		#58 Posted : 02 March 2006 19:46:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,959 Location: Hellas (Athens)		Actually it is an RE 4\4 Guus.
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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alonso231gery		#59 Posted : 03 March 2006 02:59:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,959 Location: Hellas (Athens)		I wonder which motor is better the 3-pole HAG,or the c-sine M one.
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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Gustavo Villa		#60 Posted : 03 March 2006 17:11:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/07/2005(UTC) Posts: 260 Location: Viña del Mar, Chile		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery <br />I wonder which motor is better the 3-pole HAG,or the c-sine M one. I would say c-sine motor (probably an unfair comparison), nevertheless the 3 pole Hag motor it is better than the 5 pole marklin, which is a big deal after all.
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alonso231gery		#61 Posted : 03 March 2006 19:23:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,959 Location: Hellas (Athens)		Why unfair? When the one(c-sine) cost somewhere 250 euros and the other the 3-pole costs somewhere to 390 euros. Both r metal,M keeps a high price cause it has an excellent name,the other loco has golden parts?
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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5HorizonsRR		#62 Posted : 03 March 2006 20:39:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		Hi Nikos, Here is a comparison of differences between the Marklin and HAG Ae 6/6's if it helps your decision: HAG: 1: Production runs of 100-150 at most, then switch to a different road #/ Coat of Arms 2: Each version corrected specifically for the prototype meaning square or round headlights and the matching coat of arms proper to the prototype 3: All Metal Construction (trucks sideframes etc...) 4:Hand Made and rigourously evaluated at completion (I have been told they are known to toss bodies on models for things as unnoticeable as one of those tiny numbers at the bottom being painted a millimeter or two off place. 5: This doesn't have much to do with the model but the company likes to get to know its customers personally, and holds "open days" at the factory where its customers are welcome to come for a "party", factory tour, and purchase models at a discount 6: Ball bearing motor Cost for AC digital with Sound: 375Euro at Bahnorama Marklin: 1: Production runs around 10,000 (disclaimer- not verified) 2: Theirs only have round headights (or square I can't remember which) regardless of what the prototype has. 3: More plastic parts (although mostly metal) 4: Mass Produced (and judging by what people have been reporting on here lately not quite guaranteed to work out the box)Overall a great finish but I have noticed flaws on mine 5: Try emailling Marklin for a factory tour or getting a part direct, It's impossible. 6: 5 star motor Cost for 2 loco Set #37362 516 euro (258 euro each) Is it worth the extra 115 euro? That is up to you. If you want exclusiveness and the best you can get probabally. For me: No, the Marklin one is good enough however HAG makes an RE 6/6, Bde 4/4, Ae 4/7, Ae 8/8 and other items that Marklin doesn't and when it comes down to those I find them well worth the extra money as they are them gems of my collection
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Gustavo Villa		#63 Posted : 03 March 2006 21:20:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/07/2005(UTC) Posts: 260 Location: Viña del Mar, Chile		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery <br />Why unfair? When the one(c-sine) cost somewhere 250 euros and the other the 3-pole costs somewhere to 390 euros. Both r metal,M keeps a high price cause it has an excellent name,the other loco has golden parts? I think it is unfair because sinus motor is not a conventional motor, same for faulhaber, so of course either sinus or coreless have to be better than any conventional motor, and actually it is, even in the hag case with ball bearings it is still a conventional motor, probably the best 3 pole motor around, but still conventional. But in other point of view, one thing is the motor and other is how the brand design everything else to use the motor (gear reduction, material of the gears, torque, etc.). Sometimes that can make much more difference than the motor itself. Back in Chile (I will be there in one month) I will write a review with pictures of Re 4/4 II and RE460 (marklin, roco and hag comparison fro both cases), you will easy see the differences, even in the molds, details, painting, etc. etc. Nevertheless I agree that sometimes the price difference is hard to justify, specially when differences are hard to see. Some time ago I read a hag leaflet, and as far as I remember they claims 4 or 5 layers of paint in all their locomotives, and some other layers of transparent lacquer, even dough you can still see all details in the locomotive shell.
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alonso231gery		#64 Posted : 03 March 2006 21:36:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,959 Location: Hellas (Athens)		Where is their factory? I am a great fun of SBB 460 models and i saw HAG has a lot of them. Their factory will reply to English emails?
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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Gustavo Villa		#65 Posted : 03 March 2006 21:48:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/07/2005(UTC) Posts: 260 Location: Viña del Mar, Chile		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery <br />Where is their factory? I am a great fun of SBB 460 models and i saw HAG has a lot of them. Their factory will reply to English emails? In Mörschwil. Yes, they will, you can even buy spare parts (only spare parts) from them using your credit card. I have been buying hag stuff from www.suter-meggen.ch , great service. I have one 460 from Hag, 3 from marklin hamo and one from roco, and the hag 460 is one of the best hag models ever. You can't go wrong with that. One advice, never buy a AC analog model, is comming with universal AC motor, then you have to convert the motor to DC and then to digital (Is like the conversion from delta to digital), better buy a DC model (they are easily modified for AC, just add a pick up shoe using the existing mount and some changes in the cables) or buy AC digital directly.
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alonso231gery		#66 Posted : 03 March 2006 21:54:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,959 Location: Hellas (Athens)		I am searching for AC digital models only,these cost somewhere close to 390 euros? What about shipping expenses? Do they accept bank payment?Western Union? These AC digital models will play with my cs?
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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Gustavo Villa		#67 Posted : 03 March 2006 22:00:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/07/2005(UTC) Posts: 260 Location: Viña del Mar, Chile		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery <br />I am searching for AC digital models only,these cost somewhere close to 390 euros? What about shipping expenses? Do they accept bank payment?Western Union? These AC digital models will play with my cs? If you want to buy hag you have to do it through dealers, most swiss dealers accept credit cards, you can also ask for bank transfer. Yes they will play CS but under motorola format, no MFX for the moment. But you can still install a nice ESU MFX decoder with real 460 sound
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David Dewar		#68 Posted : 03 March 2006 22:14:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,467 Location: Scotland		I understand that you can now have an ESU sound decoder fitted at the factory if you wish on most models. David
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Gustavo Villa		#69 Posted : 03 March 2006 22:50:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/07/2005(UTC) Posts: 260 Location: Viña del Mar, Chile		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by David Dewar <br />I understand that you can now have an ESU sound decoder fitted at the factory if you wish on most models. David Probably my knowledge is out of date in the AC area.
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alonso231gery		#70 Posted : 03 March 2006 23:41:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,959 Location: Hellas (Athens)		U can order directly from the factory what u want?
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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5HorizonsRR		#71 Posted : 03 March 2006 23:53:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		You can order only parts directly
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alonso231gery		#72 Posted : 04 March 2006 00:04:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,959 Location: Hellas (Athens)		Locos?
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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David Dewar		#73 Posted : 04 March 2006 00:20:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,467 Location: Scotland		As has been said you should go to a dealer for Locos. David.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Guus		#74 Posted : 04 March 2006 13:29:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:originally posted by Gustavo: One advice, never buy a AC analog model, is comming with universal AC motor, then you have to convert the motor to DC and then to digital (Is like the conversion from delta to digital), better buy a DC model (they are easily modified for AC, just add a pick up shoe using the existing mount and some changes in the cables) or buy AC digital directly. Thanks Gustavo,never knew you could "easily" add a pickup shoe on their DC models. Sorry to hijack your topic a bit Nikos. This discussion set me to think about another option some of you may already be familiar with. This company:http://www.rail4you.ch/ converts the propulsion of locos to "C-sine like engines" and has a special offer for HAG customers. Does any of you have experience with this company or has done such a conversion by him/herself? Any advice will be appreciated. Kind regards Guus
		Kind regards, Guus
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alonso231gery		#75 Posted : 25 May 2006 17:28:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,959 Location: Hellas (Athens)		Should we expect a krokodil?
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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Davy		#76 Posted : 25 May 2006 17:38:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,915 Location: Netherlands		I was in Houten 13 mai the biggest fair of trains in Holland. One thing was certain I have never seen so much Hag. They dumped it. Locs were sold for 225 euro. Not a good sign if I may say so.
		M-track with a CS2.
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alonso231gery		#77 Posted : 25 May 2006 17:56:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,959 Location: Hellas (Athens)		For M?
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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Seetal		#78 Posted : 25 May 2006 21:50:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 548 Location: Maryland, USA		Hi Gustavo, You had mentioned back in March that you may post some comparisons of Swiss locos and different manufacturers. I would be really interested to hear your comments and see some pictures. John
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Hemmerich		#79 Posted : 26 May 2006 01:31:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Guus This company:http://www.rail4you.ch/ converts the propulsion of locos to "C-sine like engines" and has a special offer for HAG customers. Does any of you have experience with this company or has done such a conversion by him/herself? Any advice will be appreciated. (Unfortunately) this company went bancrupt some time ago. Mr. Iten, the former company owner still tries to recover from this in one or the other way. A friend of mine has converted his BLS Re 4/4 and is quite satisfied with the result (even though he encountered some problems during the conversion). Regards, Lutz
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rschaffr		#80 Posted : 26 May 2006 02:34:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,193 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		I tried to convert my 3054 E103. The motor interface board burnt out because the motor was binding (my bad...should have checked it through full rotation). I contacte Herr Iten to get a replacement. I made it clear that I expected to pay. After three or four e-mails without a response, I took the motor back out and restored it to a 5* Marklin.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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Gustavo Villa		#81 Posted : 26 May 2006 04:19:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/07/2005(UTC) Posts: 260 Location: Viña del Mar, Chile		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Seetal <br />Hi Gustavo, You had mentioned back in March that you may post some comparisons of Swiss locos and different manufacturers. I would be really interested to hear your comments and see some pictures. John I'm back in Chile, I'll do it, just give me some time. Thank you for your interest. Gustavo
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Gustavo Villa		#82 Posted : 14 June 2006 07:02:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/07/2005(UTC) Posts: 260 Location: Viña del Mar, Chile		Here we go. See for yourself, Roco, Hag and Marklin (sorry no equal prototype scheme models): 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
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McLae		#83 Posted : 14 June 2006 08:11:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,575 Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX		Very nice pictures! Thank you! They look very close. If you had never seen the prototype (which I have not, yet[xx(]) it is hard to tell which has the better details.[:I] THe HAG does look best, but Roco is a close third!
		The McLae IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
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bmcrae		#84 Posted : 14 June 2006 09:11:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 970 Location: Okanagan Valley, BC		Many thanks Gustavo! That's a great array of photos......... fuelling my desire to get some HAG Swiss Electrics!! [:p][:p]
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Guus		#85 Posted : 14 June 2006 16:07:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Hi Gustavo,hi all, Thank you very much for the nice pictures. For me it goes to show that Märklin does a very good job (I'm totally devoted to Märklin I guess [:I]) Here's a picture(regretably not as good as Gustavo's) of the real thing,taken by me while in Brig: Kind regards Guus Edited by moderator 11 January 2011 15:43:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
		Kind regards, Guus
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McLae		#86 Posted : 14 June 2006 17:46:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,575 Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Here's a picture(regretably not as good as Gustavo's) of the real thing,taken by me while in Brig Well, if you hold it up and turn it so the light is at the right angle...[:o)]
		The McLae IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
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Guus		#87 Posted : 14 June 2006 17:52:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Well, if you hold it up and turn it so the light is at the right angle...[:o)] Guus
		Kind regards, Guus
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David Dewar		#88 Posted : 14 June 2006 18:37:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,467 Location: Scotland		Nice picture Guus....doesnt look as good as the HAG though !! David
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Guus		#89 Posted : 14 June 2006 19:49:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616
		Kind regards, Guus
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5HorizonsRR		#90 Posted : 14 June 2006 20:52:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		Hi Guys, A 460 might not give the best comparison shot- but is nice to see how Roco figures into the mix. I'll line up my Marklin AE 6/6 and Hag one to give another showdown- the difference is much more obvious on those.
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SRB		#91 Posted : 14 June 2006 22:47:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 19/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 162 Location: ,		Nice pictures for a comparison. It’s hard to distinguish them from each other. Nice layout Guus.
		IB; C-track; DSB and SBB ep. III-V
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Webmaster		#92 Posted : 14 June 2006 23:00:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,165		I you can live with a plastic body and slightly sloppier paintwork, you could of course get the Rocos... They usually run very smoothly while they run... I myself only have one RE460 (Pepsi) and it has magnificient paintwork..
		Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service... He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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steventrain		#93 Posted : 15 June 2006 00:00:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,705 Location: United Kingdom		Very nice pictures.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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David Dewar		#94 Posted : 15 June 2006 01:27:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,467 Location: Scotland		I have a HAG re460 and can only say superb. I have two other HAG locos on order and being HAG I do not have a delivery date and will just wait until they are made at the factory and sent to the dealer. I also own four HAG coaches and it is here that there is a big difference between HAG and Marklin. HAG have a metal chassis and it does make a difference. Again they are difficult to obtain and Marklin do of course have a far better range of models. David
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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alonso231gery		#95 Posted : 15 June 2006 02:41:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,959 Location: Hellas (Athens)		They look very similar.
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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Gustavo Villa		#96 Posted : 15 June 2006 04:13:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/07/2005(UTC) Posts: 260 Location: Viña del Mar, Chile		-Look at photo 19, 20, 21, only the Hag has an realistic interior, the rest shows the color of the shell inside the cab behind the windshield (white for the marklin, red for roco). -Windshield wipers cleaners separate only in Hag. Photo 6 -Paint coating, not the best in the marklin (grainy, not flat photo 18)), also with some bugs in the aligment of the black. -Flush glassing, the best Hag (photo 8). -Fine details in the mirrors and door, the best in Hag (22. 23. 24). -Wheels, marklin look smaller and unprototypical, the best here is Roco (13, 14, 15). -Metal Bogies in the HAG, plastic in marklin and Roco (13, 14, 15). -Everything is metall in the HAG (bogies, and the "entire shell"), mixed plastic and metall in marklin, and all plastic in roco. -No interior details in the marklin (door, panel, driver, photo 2). -Overall quality and details of the shell, overall the best is Hag, then roco and marklin, in that order. Nevertheless, I still think marklin model is great (also cheaper than Hag), I own 3 marklins, one Hag and one Roco.
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alonso231gery		#97 Posted : 15 June 2006 04:16:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,959 Location: Hellas (Athens)		Does it deserve around 130 euros more than the 39XXX metal M?
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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5HorizonsRR		#98 Posted : 15 June 2006 04:54:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA		Here is some more fuel for the fire. The red one is Marklin, the Green is HAG (look familiar David? ). The HAG is significantly better detailed and to scale proportions (using a lot more metal then Marklin) Is it worth the extra money? In my opinion yes, but I am a Swiss modeller and HAG offers the loco in crests and versions down to prototypical details which makes a difference to me (not to mention the construction and mechanical characteristics... If you just want an AE 6/6, buy the Marklin one and save some $! I think the best answer to the question is if Marklin makes it and you aren't picky just buy that one, however if it is something Marklin does not make (Ae 4/7, RE 6/6, AE 8/8, 460 in an off paint scheme) It is well worth spending the extra money to get one of these beauties
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alonso231gery		#99 Posted : 15 June 2006 05:13:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,959 Location: Hellas (Athens)		I always aim for the best.
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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Gustavo Villa		#100 Posted : 15 June 2006 06:36:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/07/2005(UTC) Posts: 260 Location: Viña del Mar, Chile		The most anoying omit is the one piece front window in the marklin model, definetly very noticiable. I also have that hag model, but not the marklin version. Roco has the model too.
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